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Discussion: What does Putin want (and whatabout it)

nan said:

You laugh now. You won't laugh later.

I wasn’t laughing. There’s nothing funny about an advocate of preventive war’s efforts to incite alarm.

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Discussion: The Rose Garden and White House happenings: Listening to voters’ concerns

it really gets tiresome arguing with people here who continue to insist the Trump campaign Russia investigation was a "hoax." It was not, and it never was, and the Mueller report made that clear.

These 11 Mueller Report Myths Just Won’t Die. Here’s Why They’re Wrong

Here's one example:

Myth: Mueller found “no collusion.”

Response: Mueller spent almost 200 pages describing “numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump Campaign.” He found that “a Russian entity carried out a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.” He also found that “a Russian intelligence service conducted computer-intrusion operations” against the Clinton campaign and then released stolen documents.

While Mueller was unable to establish a conspiracy between members of the Trump campaign and the Russians involved in this activity, he made it clear that “[a] statement that the investigation did not establish particular facts does not mean there was no evidence of those facts.” In fact, Mueller also wrote that the “investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts.”

and another:

Myth: The investigation began with the Steele dossier.

Response: According the Mueller report, the investigation began in July 2016 after Wikileaks had released materials stolen from the computers of the Democratic National Committee. The FBI received information from a foreign government that Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos had told one of its representatives that “the Trump Campaign had received indications from the Russian government that it could assist the Campaign through the anonymous release of information damaging to Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.” Mueller’s report states, “That information prompted the FBI on July 31, 2016, to open an investigation into whether individuals associated with the Trump Campaign were coordinating with the Russian government in its interference activities.” Mueller makes no statement to indicate that the investigation was predicated on the Steele dossier, a series of reports that were compiled by former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele, who was hired by a research company that was working for a law firm paid first by a conservative website and later by the Clinton campaign.

I guess some people think by sheer repetition the myths will become true. Or maybe they are just trying to wear out anyone who will try to argue with them.

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Discussion: HEAT WAVE

June 17th, 2024

Heat Wave

The NWS has issued a Heat Advisory starting Tuesday for our area. Excessive heat should continue through at least Friday.

Today, warm, clear, and dry with a high in the upper 80s.

Tuesday through Friday, a building upper ridge will drive daytime temperatures into the low to mid 90⁰s each day. A southern wind will bring some humidity, and take the heat index ("feels like temperature") to the mid to upper 90⁰s. The same southern breeze will keep the nighttime lows in the upper 60⁰s or 70⁰s here in MAPSO.

Warm weather could continue through the weekend and into next week, although a cold front might bring some relief over the weekend (along with showers).

A heat wave is defined as heat index temperatures over 95⁰ for three or more days (this definition is location specific a heat wave in Texas is hotter than one in Maine. The use of the heat index takes humidity into account).

I expect that, in New Jersey, will will come close or break some June heat records this week. Please be mindful of the heat. Stay cool. Stay in the shade, and indoors during the midday heat. Check on the elderly and disabled, check on your neighbors. Drink plenty of fluids.

Because of the sea breeze, temperatures will be hotter in MAPSO than in the city, and likely hotter here than at the airport. Most apps report the airport temperature, so if your local thermometer says 97⁰ and the app says 92⁰, believe your thermometer not the app.

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Discussion: Hot with Thunderstorms & Air Quality Alert Today 6/14/24

Friday June 14th

Happy Flag Day

Today, hot and sunny with thunderstorms this afternoon

Air Quality Alert for excessive ozone today, sensitive individuals should take precautions

Temps in the low 90⁰s. Thunderstorms possible after 2pm and likely from 5 - 8. Slight chance that a storm might be severe, with heavy rain and wind. Clearing after 8pm

Weekend will be clear dry and warm with Temps in the 80⁰s

By the middle of next week we could be looking at the first heatwave of the season, with Temps in the 90⁰s likely every day from Tuesday through Saturday

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

...AIR QUALITY ALERT IN EFFECT FROM 11 AM THIS MORNING TO 11 PM EDT

THIS EVENING...

The New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection has issued an

Air Quality Action Day for the following counties:

Bergen, Passaic, Hudson, Essex, and Union,

from 11 AM to 11 PM EDT Friday.

An Air Quality Action Day means that Ground Level Ozone within the

region may approach or exceed unhealthy standards.

For additional information, please visit the New Jersey Department

of Environmental Protection Web site at http://www.njaqinow.net

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Discussion: What does Putin want (and whatabout it)

nan said:

PVW said:

tl;dr -- if nothing else, you should be specific about which deal you believe Ukraine walked away from -- the one represented by the March 28 draft, of the one by the April 15 draft.

Ok, so now I know what you seem to be up to. You can't deny Johnson killed the peace deal so now you will go through it and say it was good he did that because it was not a good deal.  War was better.  

Good luck with that. 

By the way they tried to use that "Russia is a colonizer" line at Zelensky's "Peace Summit"  Ha!  One of the the guys on the Duran mentioned it, he had not heard it before, and said "Might be the biggest case of projection in history"  I think it was in his Clown world segment. 

Here on MOL we get  the latest propaganda even before the Duran!!!  We are so cool!

No. Your claim that Johnson killed the deal makes no sense if it was a deal Ukraine would never accept. Why are you so opposed to actually looking at the proposed deal? You seem to prefer theory over evidence.

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Discussion: What does Putin want (and whatabout it)

nan said:

PVW said:

nan said:

PVW said:

nan said:

PVW said:

nan said:

PVW said:

nan said:

Not after they saw the agreement.  They did do some sanctions (not like cutting off SWIFT).  But, in general they were OK with Ukraine joining the EU (even NATO stated that), but they did not like that agreement--it caused some alarm.  They talked to Ukraine and explained why they did not like the offer and what it might mean for Ukraine and they offered a better counterdeal than previous.  

They offered a deal, with the threat of further sanctions if they didn't agree. And when Ukrainians took to the streets, Russia prepared a military response.

This line -- "they did not like that agreement" -- gives the game away. WTF does it matter if Russia liked the deal or not? Oh, right -- because Russia believes itself entitled to control Ukraine. That's what this is about. It's always been what this is about.

Where is the evidence of a military response? Russia was fine with Ukraine joining the EU--but this agreement was not even offering EU membership--it was just going to strain the good relations between Russia and Ukraine.   Russia was right to be concerned about this agreement because they could see down the road that it could lead to huge problems. Better to deal with them right from the get go.  They had meetings about this--because they had good relations and they could deal diplomatically.  If Russia was working with Mexico on an agreement that would interfere with our relations with Mexico we would be all over that.  We would be saying, "I would not do that if I were you" and we would sanction the hell out of them because if we don't issue 1000 sanctions a day we feel like we have not done our job. 

I guess you're on the record now for supporting the U.S. sanctioning countries for making diplomatic agreements they dislike. Afraid I can't get on that boat with you.

Then you really agree with me.  Ha!

No, I don't -- you are saying Russia had a right to tell Ukraine what kinds of trade agreements it could engage it. I disagree with such a colonial attitude.

Russia let Ukraine make their decision--they had strong opinions and they made sure Ukraine heard these opinions loud and clear.  Very loud and clear. They also upped their offering as people do in reasonable negotiations. 

It was the US who felt they had a right to tell Ukraine about what kind of trade agreements it could engage with when they overthrew their government.  

You keep saying "the U.S." Did the U.S. install Ukraine's legislators? No. Did the U.S. send armed men to hold legislators hostage? No. This is where your theory falls apart -- you can't explain how a vote in parliament is an act by the U.S.

Sure, you can allege pressure if you like, but here in this very post you are saying that pressure is just a legitimate way for a big country to express its opinions -- if Russia can play good cop/bad cop by threatening crippling sanctions or offering money, then what is your basis for saying that Victoria Nuland providing sandwiches and being able to name members of the Rada is a coup? Ukraine's legislators voted, Russia's gunmen attacked. Only one of these fits the normal person's definition of a coup.

After the coup, the US put together the government. They have held sway over every government since, even if elected.  

There is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion, even a strong opinion.  Russia was not threatening crippling sanctions--they were just annoying the crap out of them.  Of course they can offer money--that's what people do in negotiations.  When you are bidding on a house you sometimes get into a bidding war.  This is normal. 

Not normal to overthrow a government and install a new one.  The coup was backed by the US and carried out by the far-right. You can deny it but it's right there to see.  The far-right was shooting people.  They are the ones who pushed it over the edge. Russia was not involved.   

Again, the "overthrow" was a vote in the legislature. You keep ignoring this. How, exactly, did the U.S. force the legislature to vote a certain way?

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Discussion: T**** is your 2024 Republican candidate - OWN IT!

 

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Discussion: Inconsequential Chat

As a broadcast engineer, I believe I can bring some illumination to the problem at hand.

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Discussion: HEAT WAVE

Thanks, Max! Better to know than not...

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Discussion: The Rose Garden and White House happenings: Listening to voters’ concerns

Morganna said:

PVW said:

I don't know if there is more, and more effective, pressure Biden could apply. Maybe there is, and if so then he should definitely be applying it. But if I understand you correctly, you seem to be arguing for a complete break. That wouldn't actually stop the war. It wouldn't help Palestinian civilians. It would endanger Israelis (and likely Jewish people worldwide). That seems a high price to pay for the moral victory of being able to say the U.S. was disassociated from what's happening in Gaza -- such a high price it seems it might be a net moral defeat instead.

I'm so glad that you are putting forth reasonable arguments. I gave up in previous threads and found it difficult to keep my emotions in check, which is one of the reasons I moved over to this thread not expecting the topic to reappear.

Thank you, but overall I just find the whole situation very depressing and tragic.

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