Who Meddled more Putin or Trump? The Collusion Thread visits Venezuela
Fun Tweet:
Guess which MOL personality had just called this poster "not very informed" on my Twitter Feed?
Fun Throwing Contest:
“not very informed” vs. “not convinced he has the mental capacity for much thought”
Guess which one is more insulting.
paulsurovell said:
Guess which MOL personality had just called this poster "not very informed" on my Twitter Feed?
Given the confusion between nom de plumes, this is a trick question, right?
(As a matter of fact, “Guess” is an imperative — so it really is a trick. Bravo!)
DaveSchmidt said:
Fun Throwing Contest:
“not very informed” vs. “not convinced he has the mental capacity for much thought”
Guess which one is more insulting.
Glad you "got it."
On the Fun Throwing Contest, in isolation it looks easy. But one must also consider whether one insult was gratuitous and the other insult was a response to the first. In other words aggression can be an equalizer in such matters.
“We seek a peaceful transition of power, but all options are open,” Mr. Trump said. He urged all members of the Venezuelan military to permit the aid into the country, and advised them to accept the opposition’s amnesty offer — or they will find “no safe harbor, no easy exit, and no way out.”
“You will lose everything,” the president said
Democratic response?
paulsurovell said:
But one must also consider whether one insult was gratuitous and the other insult was a response to the first. In other words aggression can be an equalizer in such matters.
No, it’s all silly.
DaveSchmidt said:
paulsurovell said:No, it’s all silly.
But one must also consider whether one insult was gratuitous and the other insult was a response to the first. In other words aggression can be an equalizer in such matters.
True. I'm responsible for responding (but not "in kind" since "not very informed" is mild compared to what I responded to). I keep forgetting that it's probably some Russian somewhere who was baiting me.
South_Mountaineer said:
DaveSchmidt said:True. I'm responsible for responding (but not "in kind" since "not very informed" is mild compared to what I responded to). I keep forgetting that it's probably some Russian somewhere who was baiting me.
paulsurovell said:No, it’s all silly.
But one must also consider whether one insult was gratuitous and the other insult was a response to the first. In other words aggression can be an equalizer in such matters.
What a great post for this thread.
paulsurovell said:
jamie said:Looking forward to it. Jamie Ross needs better internet? Isn't that a contradiction in terms?
the fact that Hillary likes max doesn’t change my opinion of him - I still think he’s riding the fringe wave - sort of like infowars on the Bernie side.
I’ll write more later or whenever I have better internet.
ok, here's a quick thought on Max - either he's the worst reporter in history - or he has incentive recently to do a 180:
https://justpaste.it/maxblumenthalh8dAssad
It's amazing how the change occurred not to long after Putin poured millions into his media empire. And Sputnik news was born - weird.
Max's contention is that US want to destabilize the country - smash this socialist experiment and access the largest oil reserve. I just don't know how he's getting to this conclusion.
I think the comments to this Max tweet tell a opposite story: https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1094661822081306626
Good NY Times editorial today.
"Yes, the military should abandon Mr. Maduro, who has guided one of Latin America’s richest countries to total ruin, and join the opposition leader Juan Guaidó in trying to put Venezuela back on track. But it should not be Mr. Trump issuing ultimatums, threatening the soldiers or telling them what to do."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/19/opinion/venezuela-border-maduro-trump.html
I think I've read similar thoughts here (not that anyone pays attention).
nohero said:
Good NY Times editorial today.
"Yes, the military should abandon Mr. Maduro, who has guided one of Latin America’s richest countries to total ruin, and join the opposition leader Juan Guaidó in trying to put Venezuela back on track. But it should not be Mr. Trump issuing ultimatums, threatening the soldiers or telling them what to do."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/19/opinion/venezuela-border-maduro-trump.html
Here we go ( re prior post) --
South_Mountaineer said:
DaveSchmidt said:Yes. I think it’s possible to think the Venezuelan people are making their own change, and that Trump should butt out.
Given the actions of the National Assembly, a democratically elected governmental body, liberals would probably dispute that it’s an overthrow. You can disagree with that position, but if the words you choose to describe it prevent you from getting it, that’s on you.
nohero said:
Good NY Times editorial today.
"Yes, the military should abandon Mr. Maduro, who has guided one of Latin America’s richest countries to total ruin, and join the opposition leader Juan Guaidó in trying to put Venezuela back on track. But it should not be Mr. Trump issuing ultimatums, threatening the soldiers or telling them what to do."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/19/opinion/venezuela-border-maduro-trump.html
It's a pro-Trump coup endorsement, just asking Trump not to be so overt so the "liberal" pro-Trump coup supporters can pretend it's not a coup.
paulsurovell said:
nohero said:It's a pro-Trump coup endorsement, just asking Trump not to be so overt so the "liberal" pro-Trump coup supporters can pretend it's not a coup.
Good NY Times editorial today.
"Yes, the military should abandon Mr. Maduro, who has guided one of Latin America’s richest countries to total ruin, and join the opposition leader Juan Guaidó in trying to put Venezuela back on track. But it should not be Mr. Trump issuing ultimatums, threatening the soldiers or telling them what to do."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/19/opinion/venezuela-border-maduro-trump.html
No, it's not. Anyone reading it would know that and disagree with your summary.
paulsurovell said:It's a pro-Trump coup endorsement, just asking Trump not to be so overt so the "liberal" pro-Trump coup supporters can pretend it's not a coup.
Just so we get our terms right - Maduro is the one who engineered an "election" outside the norms of the Venezuelan constitution, and is backed by the generals.
So Mr. Surovell is supporting the "coup" that took place, instead of the democratically (and, constitutionally) elected representatives of the Venezuelan people - who are now trying to fight back against that coup.
From Glenn Greenwald. Truer words were never said:
. . . the level of gullibility required to believe that Donald Trump, John Bolton, Elliott Abrams and Jair Bolsonaro are motivated by benevolent concerns for the welfare of The Venezuelan People cannot be adequately described within the confines of the English language:
"Confirmed: YouTube, Bing and Google services blocked in #Venezuela during #VenezuelaAidLive concert from 7:20 PM UTC (3:20 PM VET); incident ongoing #KeepItOnnetblocks.org/reports/y…pic.twitter.com/gpOHTNv…"
ridski said:
I guess you won't be watching this, then.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1098347192207720449
ALSO:
Pink Floyd legend Roger Waters dismantles billionaire Richard Branson’s ‘humanitarian intervention’ in Venezuela
Max Blumenthal visited a supermarket in Venezuela. Has anyone seen videos or photos like this in the corporate mainstream media?
paulsurovell said:
Max Blumenthal visited a supermarket in Venezuela. Has anyone seen videos or photos like this in the corporate mainstream media?
Maybe Max Blumenthal should interview Yaneidi Guzman, who has lost a third of her weight over the last three years.
"CARACAS (Reuters) - Yaneidi Guzman has lost a third of her weight over the past three years as Venezuela’s economic collapse made food unaffordable and she now hopes the opposition will succeed in bringing urgently needed foreign aid to the South American country."
..........
"Venezuelans’ diets have become ever more deficient in vitamins and protein, as currency controls restrict food imports and salaries fail to keep apace with inflation that is now above 2 million percent annually."
.........
“I hope they let the aid in,” said Guzman, who despite holding down two jobs cannot make enough money for the tests, supplements or protein-rich diet that doctors have prescribed her. She and her husband make less than $30 per month and prioritize feeding their three young children.
While there is a vacuum of government information, almost two-thirds of Venezuelans surveyed in a university study called, “Survey on life conditions,” and published last year, said they had lost on average 11 kilograms (24 lbs) in body weight in 2017."
Shakira, Shakira!
"I want to add my support for this initiative that aims to help the people of Venezuela, who are suffering one of the worst crises in their history. Shak"
https://twitter.com/shakira/status/1099050751777755136
paulsurovell said:
Max Blumenthal visited a supermarket in Venezuela. Has anyone seen videos or photos like this in the corporate mainstream media?
Blumenthal mentions at the end that he had to pay in dollars. Here’s a Reuters article about that. Paul has noted on Twitter that these stores appear to be smaller than the supermarket Blumenthal visited, and Reuters does not blame the U.S. for the dollar requirement, as Blumenthal does. Does the Reuters story, then, lack context? Does the video impose its own narrative, as Paul likes to say of corporate American media? Anyone who watches the video and reads the article can decide for themselves.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-stores-idUSKCN1N51PN
cramer said:
Maybe Max Blumenthal should interview Yaneidi Guzman, who has lost a third of her weight over the last three years.
At 3:20 in this video, which Paul posted on Twitter as a possible explanation for why another Blumenthal video shows tables and tables piled with goods — hailed by Blumenthal as below market price — in an outdoor market with scarcely a buyer, the former U.N. rapporteur Alfred de Zayas tells an interviewer:
“If you know a humanitarian crisis — in Gaza, and in Yemen, and in Syria, and in Sudan, and in Somalia — you wouldn’t say there is a humanitarian crisis in Venezuela.”
DaveSchmidt said:
cramer said:At 3:20 in this video, which Paul posted on Twitter as a possible explanation for why another Blumenthal video shows tables and tables piled with goods — hailed by Blumenthal as below market price — in an outdoor market with scarcely a buyer, the former U.N. rapporteur Alfred de Zayas tells an interviewer:
Maybe Max Blumenthal should interview Yaneidi Guzman, who has lost a third of her weight over the last three years.
“If you know a humanitarian crisis — in Gaza, and in Yemen, and in Syria, and in Sudan, and in Somalia — you wouldn’t say there is a humanitarian crisis in Venezuela.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii5MlQgGXyk
"During the 167th sessions period of the Inter-American Commission of Human Rights, during the audience regarding health and nutrition in Venezuela, the State representative screened an interview of Telesur to de Zayas, in which he assured there was not a humanitarian crisis in the country and that to solve the economic problems the "economic war" must end and that the "unilateral actions" should be suspended. As a response, Susana Raffalli, advisor to the Caritas Organization of Venezuela, voiced her concern and declared that during his visit to the country, de Zayas only took pictures of the counter of the charcuterie in front of his hotel."
Paul talks about narratives.
One of them apparently goes like this: Venezuela has plenty of food and other necessities that would be available to more people if only the U.S. economic war weren’t driving inflation to such extreme heights. The economic war may also be preventing Venezuela from importing enough goods, but supermarkets and outdoor markets well stocked with presumably domestic products show there’s no humanitarian crisis, which doesn’t say much for the devastating impact of U.S. sanctions.
Another apparent narrative, courtesy of corporate media, hides all that from the American public in order to push a war-mongering agenda.
Narratives are difficult to contain to just two, but those seem to be the main ones here.
cramer said:
"During the 167th sessions period of the Inter-American Commission of Human Rights, during the audience regarding health and nutrition in Venezuela, the State representative screened an interview of Telesur to de Zayas, in which he assured there was not a humanitarian crisis in the country and that to solve the economic problems the "economic war" must end and that the "unilateral actions" should be suspended. As a response, Susana Raffalli, advisor to the Caritas Organization of Venezuela, voiced her concern and declared that during his visit to the country, de Zayas only took pictures of the counter of the charcuterie in front of his hotel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred-Maurice_de_Zayas
And for the record, his mission to Venezuela took place Nov. 26 to Dec. 4, 2017 — 15 months ago.
Pretty sure that suffering by Venezuelans from Trump's sanctions -- that are even more inhumane than the sanctions against Saddam -- is real and that reporting on it is real reporting.
Also amused that someone alleges "dishonesty" because a post about sanctions didn't mention a pro-Trump Guaido demonstration, while that someone fails to cite the article's reporting of the pro-Maduro anti-Trump demonstration:
. . . and yes, it's also true that the reporter said the pro-Trump demo was bigger than the anti-Trump demo. Doesn't make the suffering of the Venezuelan people any less.