Who Meddled more Putin or Trump? The Collusion Thread visits Venezuela
South_Mountaineer said:
paulsurovell said:Not intentionally.
South_Mountaineer said:Thank you. We are almost there. I will give a simple answer after you respond to the second part of my questions:
paulsurovell said:I don't think that you and Nan think either Trump, Putin, or Assad are great presidents. You obviously have other reasons for taking positions that help them.
South_Mountaineer said:I'll answer the question with several of my own:
dave23 said:Good question.
paulsurovell said:Do you honestly think they were out there because they thought Jeff Sessions was a great AG?
You're parsing your reality. Maureen is right to point out that if the worst attorney general in modern history had not been fired, none of the protesters would have been in Times Square. Liberals upset that Jeff Sessions was fired. That's a paradox that cannot be denied (unless you deny reality).
Do you honestly think that Nan and I are criticizing the Russiagate narrative because we think Trump and/or Putin are great presidents? And that we want to support Trump and/or Putin?
Do you honestly think that Nan and I are criticizing US policy in Syria because we think that Assad is a great president? And that we want to support Assad?
Now you can answer the simple question you refused to answer the first time.
Do you honestly think we are criticizing US the Russiagate narrative because we want to support Trump and/or Putin?
Do you honestly think we are criticizing US policy in Syria because we want to support Assad?
The operative word is "want." Is that what we "want?" Yes or No.
paulsurovell said:
dave23 said:I'm waiting for "@South_Mountaineer's" reply. As soon as he gives it without weasel words, you will have your answer.
paulsurovell said:You've gone from (deliberately?) misunderstanding the purpose of the protest to avoiding uncomfortable questions to simply not making sense. It's the Holy Trinity of interacting with you.It's an answer that addresses the hypocrisy of the question
Edited to Add: Inserted the words "without weasel words"
Spiraling.
"Mr. Stamos’s team discovered that Russian hackers appeared to be probing Facebook accounts for people connected to the presidential campaigns, said two employees. Months later, as Mr. Trump battled Hillary Rodham Clinton in the general election, the team also found Facebook accounts linked to Russian hackers who were messaging journalists to share information from the stolen emails."
South_Mountaineer said:Maybe you have your own reality. People were protesting because Mueller is going to be reporting to Whitaker.
----------------------
https://www.trumpisnotabovethelaw.org/event/mueller-firing-rapid-response/search/
BREAKING: PROTESTS CALLED FOR THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 8, 5 PM LOCAL TIME
Donald Trump has installed a crony to oversee the special counsel's Trump-Russia investigation, crossing a red line set to protect the investigation. By replacing Rod Rosenstein with just-named Acting Attorney General Matt Whitaker as special counsel Robert Mueller's boss on the investigation, Trump has undercut the independence of the investigation. Whitaker has publicly outlined strategies to stifle the investigation and cannot be allowed to remain in charge of it. The Nobody Is Above the Law network demands that Whitaker immediately commit not to assume supervision of the investigation. Our hundreds of response events are being launched to demonstrate the public demand for action to correct this injustice. We will update this page as the situation develops.
--
Donald Trump just crossed a red line, violating the independence of the investigation pursuing criminal charges in the Trump-Russia scandal and cover-up.
Trump putting himself above the law is a threat to our democracy, and we’ve got to get Congress to stop him.
We're mobilizing immediately to demand accountability, because Trump is not above the law.
Please post the time and place where this will be protested:
paulsurovell said:
South_Mountaineer said:Please post the time and place where this will be protested:
Maybe you have your own reality. People were protesting because Mueller is going to be reporting to Whitaker.
----------------------
https://www.trumpisnotabovethelaw.org/event/mueller-firing-rapid-response/search/
BREAKING: PROTESTS CALLED FOR THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 8, 5 PM LOCAL TIME
Donald Trump has installed a crony to oversee the special counsel's Trump-Russia investigation, crossing a red line set to protect the investigation. By replacing Rod Rosenstein with just-named Acting Attorney General Matt Whitaker as special counsel Robert Mueller's boss on the investigation, Trump has undercut the independence of the investigation. Whitaker has publicly outlined strategies to stifle the investigation and cannot be allowed to remain in charge of it. The Nobody Is Above the Law network demands that Whitaker immediately commit not to assume supervision of the investigation. Our hundreds of response events are being launched to demonstrate the public demand for action to correct this injustice. We will update this page as the situation develops.
--
Donald Trump just crossed a red line, violating the independence of the investigation pursuing criminal charges in the Trump-Russia scandal and cover-up.
Trump putting himself above the law is a threat to our democracy, and we’ve got to get Congress to stop him.
We're mobilizing immediately to demand accountability, because Trump is not above the law.
https://www.propublica.org/article/why-jeff-sessions-final-act-could-have-more-impact-than-expected?utm_content=bufferf6119&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=buffer
Probably nowhere; they should have been singing "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" instead of protesting his removal.
paulsurovell said:
South_Mountaineer said:Please post the time and place where this will be protested:
Maybe you have your own reality. People were protesting because Mueller is going to be reporting to Whitaker.
----------------------
https://www.trumpisnotabovethelaw.org/event/mueller-firing-rapid-response/search/
BREAKING: PROTESTS CALLED FOR THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 8, 5 PM LOCAL TIME
Donald Trump has installed a crony to oversee the special counsel's Trump-Russia investigation, crossing a red line set to protect the investigation. By replacing Rod Rosenstein with just-named Acting Attorney General Matt Whitaker as special counsel Robert Mueller's boss on the investigation, Trump has undercut the independence of the investigation. Whitaker has publicly outlined strategies to stifle the investigation and cannot be allowed to remain in charge of it. The Nobody Is Above the Law network demands that Whitaker immediately commit not to assume supervision of the investigation. Our hundreds of response events are being launched to demonstrate the public demand for action to correct this injustice. We will update this page as the situation develops.
--
Donald Trump just crossed a red line, violating the independence of the investigation pursuing criminal charges in the Trump-Russia scandal and cover-up.
Trump putting himself above the law is a threat to our democracy, and we’ve got to get Congress to stop him.
We're mobilizing immediately to demand accountability, because Trump is not above the law.
https://www.propublica.org/article/why-jeff-sessions-final-act-could-have-more-impact-than-expected?utm_content=bufferf6119&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=buffer
Can't help you. There is an awful lot to protest. Turns out, letting Trump win really did make a difference, despite what you may have thought. The turnout and vote last week was a good "all purpose" protest. I hope the same dingalings who discouraged support for the Democratic nominee the last time don't try a repeat in 2020.
Please don't insult dingalings by lumping them in with the Berniebots and the Steinnuts
Trumpy's more nervous than ever.
Donald J. TrumpVerified account @realDonaldTrump
The inner workings of the Mueller investigation are a total mess. They have found no collusion and have gone absolutely nuts. They are screaming and shouting at people, horribly threatening them to come up with the answers they want. They are a disgrace to our Nation and don’t...
....care how many lives the ruin. These are Angry People, including the highly conflicted Bob Mueller, who worked for Obama for 8 years. They won’t even look at all of the bad acts and crimes on the other side. A TOTAL WITCH HUNT LIKE NO OTHER IN AMERICAN HISTORY!
dave23 said:
Trumpy's more nervous than ever.
Donald J. TrumpVerified account @realDonaldTrump
The inner workings of the Mueller investigation are a total mess. They have found no collusion and have gone absolutely nuts. They are screaming and shouting at people, horribly threatening them to come up with the answers they want. They are a disgrace to our Nation and don’t...
....care how many lives the ruin. These are Angry People, including the highly conflicted Bob Mueller, who worked for Obama for 8 years. They won’t even look at all of the bad acts and crimes on the other side. A TOTAL WITCH HUNT LIKE NO OTHER IN AMERICAN HISTORY!
Is Mr. Surovell doing the twittering for Trump now?
Paul - do you have your latest Roger Stone defense ready? I'm sure you'll stand behind Roger's rebuttal.
Except they waited until that Friday, one hour after the Trump grab 'em audiotapes emerged.
South_Mountaineer said:Turns out, letting Trump win really did make a difference, despite what you may have thought.
The part that I've bolded is a lie.
nohero said:
dave23 said:Is Mr. Surovell doing the twittering for Trump now?
Trumpy's more nervous than ever.
Donald J. TrumpVerified account @realDonaldTrump
The inner workings of the Mueller investigation are a total mess. They have found no collusion and have gone absolutely nuts. They are screaming and shouting at people, horribly threatening them to come up with the answers they want. They are a disgrace to our Nation and don’t...
....care how many lives the ruin. These are Angry People, including the highly conflicted Bob Mueller, who worked for Obama for 8 years. They won’t even look at all of the bad acts and crimes on the other side. A TOTAL WITCH HUNT LIKE NO OTHER IN AMERICAN HISTORY!
Good example of the inner workings of @nohero's obsessive mind.
jamie said:
Paul - do you have your latest Roger Stone defense ready? I'm sure you'll stand behind Roger's rebuttal.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/exclusive-text-messages-show-stone-friend-discussing-wikileaks-plans-n936371
The texts you posted were from Randy Credico, not Stone.
paulsurovell said:
jamie said:The texts you posted were from Randy Credico, not Stone.
Paul - do you have your latest Roger Stone defense ready? I'm sure you'll stand behind Roger's rebuttal.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/exclusive-text-messages-show-stone-friend-discussing-wikileaks-plans-n936371
It's a text conversation between them. I guess your defense is to deny reality.
paulsurovell said:
nohero said:Good example of the inner workings of @nohero's obsessive mind.
dave23 said:Is Mr. Surovell doing the twittering for Trump now?
Trumpy's more nervous than ever.
Donald J. TrumpVerified account @realDonaldTrump
The inner workings of the Mueller investigation are a total mess. They have found no collusion and have gone absolutely nuts. They are screaming and shouting at people, horribly threatening them to come up with the answers they want. They are a disgrace to our Nation and don’t...
....care how many lives the ruin. These are Angry People, including the highly conflicted Bob Mueller, who worked for Obama for 8 years. They won’t even look at all of the bad acts and crimes on the other side. A TOTAL WITCH HUNT LIKE NO OTHER IN AMERICAN HISTORY!
Your auto-correct turned "observant" into "obsessive" in your post. Thanks, I like to think I have an observant mind. I dare say practically all of the concepts in that Twitter-burst from Trump have, at one time or another, been in your posts here.
paulsurovell said:
jamie said:The texts you posted were from Randy Credico, not Stone.
Paul - do you have your latest Roger Stone defense ready? I'm sure you'll stand behind Roger's rebuttal.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/exclusive-text-messages-show-stone-friend-discussing-wikileaks-plans-n936371
The screenshot you saw didn't have Roger Stone's name in it?
nohero said:
paulsurovell said:Your auto-correct turned "observant" into "obsessive" in your post. Thanks, I like to think I have an observant mind. I dare say practically all of the concepts in that Twitter-burst from Trump have, at one time or another, been in your posts here.
nohero said:Good example of the inner workings of @nohero's obsessive mind.
dave23 said:Is Mr. Surovell doing the twittering for Trump now?
Trumpy's more nervous than ever.
Donald J. TrumpVerified account @realDonaldTrump
The inner workings of the Mueller investigation are a total mess. They have found no collusion and have gone absolutely nuts. They are screaming and shouting at people, horribly threatening them to come up with the answers they want. They are a disgrace to our Nation and don’t...
....care how many lives the ruin. These are Angry People, including the highly conflicted Bob Mueller, who worked for Obama for 8 years. They won’t even look at all of the bad acts and crimes on the other side. A TOTAL WITCH HUNT LIKE NO OTHER IN AMERICAN HISTORY!
Ouch!!!!!!!!
dave23 said:
paulsurovell said:The screenshot you saw didn't have Roger Stone's name in it
jamie said:The texts you posted were from Randy Credico, not Stone.
Paul - do you have your latest Roger Stone defense ready? I'm sure you'll stand behind Roger's rebuttal.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/exclusive-text-messages-show-stone-friend-discussing-wikileaks-plans-n936371
I confess I missed Stone's
"U died 5 years ago."
So in answer to Jamie's question, I've seen Credico on live TV lately, so No, I don't plan to defend that.
nohero said:
paulsurovell said:Your auto-correct turned "observant" into "obsessive" in your post. Thanks, I like to think I have an observant mind. I dare say practically all of the concepts in that Twitter-burst from Trump have, at one time or another, been in your posts here.
nohero said:Good example of the inner workings of @nohero's obsessive mind.
dave23 said:Is Mr. Surovell doing the twittering for Trump now?
Trumpy's more nervous than ever.
Donald J. TrumpVerified account @realDonaldTrump
The inner workings of the Mueller investigation are a total mess. They have found no collusion and have gone absolutely nuts. They are screaming and shouting at people, horribly threatening them to come up with the answers they want. They are a disgrace to our Nation and don’t...
....care how many lives the ruin. These are Angry People, including the highly conflicted Bob Mueller, who worked for Obama for 8 years. They won’t even look at all of the bad acts and crimes on the other side. A TOTAL WITCH HUNT LIKE NO OTHER IN AMERICAN HISTORY!
I broke up Trump's tweet into its "concepts" and then compared them with what I've posted in the table below. It turns out that I've posted in agreement with 2 of the 8 concepts, a bit distant from your breathless assessment of "practically all."
But when you are obsessively hunting for a would-be opportunity to smear me with a "Trumpist" brush and craving an "Ouch!!!!" of approval from your mentor, blunders like this are to be expected.
Here's the explanation of the asterisked "concept" in the chart:
_____________________________________________________
* I've said that the collusion cited on this thread by both sides is legal. I've said that the origin of the investigation should be investigated, not "the other side."
paulsurovell said:
nohero said:I broke up Trump's tweet into its "concepts" and then compared them with what I've posted in the table below. It turns out that I've posted in agreement with 2 of the 8 concepts, a bit distant from your breathless assessment of "practically all."
paulsurovell said:Your auto-correct turned "observant" into "obsessive" in your post. Thanks, I like to think I have an observant mind. I dare say practically all of the concepts in that Twitter-burst from Trump have, at one time or another, been in your posts here.
nohero said:Good example of the inner workings of @nohero's obsessive mind.
dave23 said:Is Mr. Surovell doing the twittering for Trump now?
Trumpy's more nervous than ever.
Donald J. TrumpVerified account @realDonaldTrump
The inner workings of the Mueller investigation are a total mess. They have found no collusion and have gone absolutely nuts. They are screaming and shouting at people, horribly threatening them to come up with the answers they want. They are a disgrace to our Nation and don’t...
....care how many lives the ruin. These are Angry People, including the highly conflicted Bob Mueller, who worked for Obama for 8 years. They won’t even look at all of the bad acts and crimes on the other side. A TOTAL WITCH HUNT LIKE NO OTHER IN AMERICAN HISTORY!
But when you are obsessively hunting for a would-be opportunity to smear me with a "Trumpist" brush and craving an "Ouch!!!!" of approval from your mentor, blunders like this are to be expected.
Sort of the pot calling the kettle obsessive, isn't it? Sorry, didn't mean for you to waste the afternoon on that. I could quibble on your classifications, but I don't want to put you to more trouble.
Paul - how on earth would you or Trump know that no collusion has been found? Has Mueller sent you his findings? AND it should also be noted for the zillionth time - "collusion" was never in the special counsel narrative. Trump and his minions are using this keyword to diminish Mueller's role and try to win via the court of public opinion which you are greatly assisting with.
Trump is putting the final nails in his own coffin - especially with his latest interview:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/15/politics/daily-caller-trump-interview/index.html
I like CNN's rebuttal to the "Witch hunt" line:
If you define "witch hunt" as 191 criminal counts, 35 people and entities charged, six people who have pleaded guilty, one person who was found guilty at trial and three people who have been sentenced to prison, then, yes, this is a witch hunt.
jamie said:
Paul - how on earth would you or Trump know that no collusion has been found? Has Mueller sent you his findings? AND it should also be noted for the zillionth time - "collusion" was never in the special counsel narrative. Trump and his minions are using this keyword to diminish Mueller's role and try to win via the court of public opinion which you are greatly assisting with.
Trump is putting the final nails in his own coffin - especially with his latest interview:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/15/politics/daily-caller-trump-interview/index.html
I like CNN's rebuttal to the "Witch hunt" line:
If you define "witch hunt" as 191 criminal counts, 35 people and entities charged, six people who have pleaded guilty, one person who was found guilty at trial and three people who have been sentenced to prison, then, yes, this is a witch hunt.
The witch hunt moniker works because 35 people have been prosecuted in the Inquest to identify Trump campaign workers who coordinated with Russia in the 2016 election, but none of those prosecuted were actually accused of coordinating with Russia in the 2016 election, but a wide swath of the population thinks that they were.
nohero said:
paulsurovell said:Sort of the pot calling the kettle obsessive, isn't it? Sorry, didn't mean for you to waste the afternoon on that. I could quibble on your classifications, but I don't want to put you to more trouble.
nohero said:I broke up Trump's tweet into its "concepts" and then compared them with what I've posted in the table below. It turns out that I've posted in agreement with 2 of the 8 concepts, a bit distant from your breathless assessment of "practically all."
paulsurovell said:Your auto-correct turned "observant" into "obsessive" in your post. Thanks, I like to think I have an observant mind. I dare say practically all of the concepts in that Twitter-burst from Trump have, at one time or another, been in your posts here.
nohero said:Good example of the inner workings of @nohero's obsessive mind.
dave23 said:Is Mr. Surovell doing the twittering for Trump now?
Trumpy's more nervous than ever.
Donald J. TrumpVerified account @realDonaldTrump
The inner workings of the Mueller investigation are a total mess. They have found no collusion and have gone absolutely nuts. They are screaming and shouting at people, horribly threatening them to come up with the answers they want. They are a disgrace to our Nation and don’t...
....care how many lives the ruin. These are Angry People, including the highly conflicted Bob Mueller, who worked for Obama for 8 years. They won’t even look at all of the bad acts and crimes on the other side. A TOTAL WITCH HUNT LIKE NO OTHER IN AMERICAN HISTORY!
But when you are obsessively hunting for a would-be opportunity to smear me with a "Trumpist" brush and craving an "Ouch!!!!" of approval from your mentor, blunders like this are to be expected.
You copy the tweet into Word and then cut and paste into a table, takes maybe two minutes total. Glad I could return the favor of online technique sharing.
paulsurovell said:
The witch hunt moniker works because 35 people have been prosecuted in the Inquest to identify Trump campaign workers who coordinated with Russia in the 2016 election, but none of those prosecuted were actually accused of coordinating with Russia in the 2016 election, but a wide swath of the population thinks that they were.
Is "wide swath" a scientific term? Or is it a rare bird?
dave23 said:
paulsurovell said:Is "wide swath" a scientific term? Or is it a rare bird?
The witch hunt moniker works because 35 people have been prosecuted in the Inquest to identify Trump campaign workers who coordinated with Russia in the 2016 election, but none of those prosecuted were actually accused of coordinating with Russia in the 2016 election, but a wide swath of the population thinks that they were.
As of June 2018 in this poll only 35% of Americans believe Mueller has found evidence of collusion, with 24% saying they don't know. It's not hard numbers on how many believe those who have been prosecuted were accused on coordinating with Russia, but it's a start.
ridski said:
dave23 said:As of June 2018 in this poll only 35% of Americans believe Mueller has found evidence of collusion, with 24% saying they don't know. It's not hard numbers on how many believe those who have been prosecuted were accused on coordinating with Russia, but it's a start.
paulsurovell said:Is "wide swath" a scientific term? Or is it a rare bird?
The witch hunt moniker works because 35 people have been prosecuted in the Inquest to identify Trump campaign workers who coordinated with Russia in the 2016 election, but none of those prosecuted were actually accused of coordinating with Russia in the 2016 election, but a wide swath of the population thinks that they were.
Thanks for digging out those numbers. Not that it makes a difference. Innumeracy is a characteristic of people who believe Trump's version of reality.
nohero said:
ridski said:Thanks for digging out those numbers. Not that it makes a difference. Innumeracy is a characteristic of people who believe Trump's version of reality.
dave23 said:As of June 2018 in this poll only 35% of Americans believe Mueller has found evidence of collusion, with 24% saying they don't know. It's not hard numbers on how many believe those who have been prosecuted were accused on coordinating with Russia, but it's a start.
paulsurovell said:Is "wide swath" a scientific term? Or is it a rare bird?
The witch hunt moniker works because 35 people have been prosecuted in the Inquest to identify Trump campaign workers who coordinated with Russia in the 2016 election, but none of those prosecuted were actually accused of coordinating with Russia in the 2016 election, but a wide swath of the population thinks that they were.
35% of the voting population is about 82 million Americans. That's a pretty wide swath of Americans who believe that Mueller has prosecuted "witches." I'll bet a lot of them also believe what they're told about Russiagate on the MSM..
Note to Jamie: The poll asks whether Mueller has found "collusion."
paulsurovell said:
35% of the voting population is about 82 million Americans. That's a pretty wide swath of Americans who believe that Mueller has prosecuted "witches." I'll bet a lot of them also believe what they're told about Russiagate on the MSM.
If your takeaway from that poll is that 82 million Americans believe there have been prosecutions for collusion, then you should reread the poll. And if your standard for whether something is right or wrong based on public opinion, then we have yet another thing we disagree about.
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I'm waiting for "@South_Mountaineer's" reply. As soon as he gives it without weasel words, you will have your answer.
Edited to Add: Inserted the words "without weasel words"