What's up with the construction on the S-Curves

I am pretty sure that the S curves project is not mostly Essex County money--some kind of Fed transportation safety grant covering some/a lot of it. Finally some of our other tax dollars coming home to NJ.

I don't have time to dig up the details now, but I am pretty sure that was the deal when the project was launched anyway.

Ok, so I do have time:

http://www.nj.com/essex/index.ssf/2014/04/south_orange_avenue_to_get_30m_facelift_officials_say.html

http://patch.com/new-jersey/caldwells/essex-exec-details-30m-south-orange-ave-improvements

https://www.tapinto.net/articles/largest-road-improvement-project-undertaken-by-es

tjohn said:

yahooyahoo said:
Many years from now people will ask "What happened to the South Mountain Reservation? There used to be woods there." But you will have your mini-golf, swan boats, Muck Fest, nice s-curves, and expanded parking deck at the arena/zoo.

No they won't.

Those of us who've lived here a while and paid attention know that most of that development was done on areas that were already non-forest. The mini-golf and McLoone's complex was put in where there had been an unpaved (partial gravel?) overflow parking lot/carnival site. The swan boat complex went in where there had been an old abandoned house behind chain link fencing. The parking deck went in where there were already parking lots.

The muck fest doesn't cut down any trees, and the organizers fill the holes they make. We can discuss whether it is a good event, but it isn't destroying any woods.

The S-curve straightening/banking project is still underway...in my minds eye I can see the curves that are being gentled, and know the drainage needs from when I drove it every day. So waiting to see how much it helps (and they planted many trees to try to make up for the roadside ones taken -- including better road shielding for the big picnic area).

I've been hiking more than once recently, and can tell you there is still a heck of a lot of forest in the Reservation. Just get out of your car and have a look. A few acres of recreation and dining does very little to change the Reservation that hikers can see.

As pointed out, if there is Federal or State money available for a particular project you usually need to take it if it serves a useful purpose even if the project is not the #1 priority. Money available for one project is usually not easily changed to something else.

We can agree to disagree. I think Joe D's agenda is clear but other's see it another way. He has been slowly but surely chipping away at the South Mountain Reservation. In a region that is starved for open space, we seem to be okay with the gradual development of the only resource in our area. Just because a new attraction is used by a lot of people (mini-golf, swan boats) doesn't mean it's the best use of our resources. Adding a large amount of paved space (parking lots, path around the reservoir, expanded s-curves, expanded maintenance center) is counter-productive to maintaining open green space.

We came close to having a huge dam built in the southwest corner of the reservation. Trust me, some other idea will come up soon that will take away more green space. At what point do we say enough is enough? Do you want recreation facilities or do you want natural green habitat?

yahooyahoo said:
Do you want recreation facilities or do you want natural green habitat?

Both, please.

The dam was certainly not the idea of anyone in the area and was uniformly opposed and quickly killed. But as said the reservation is very large. It is a great resource with many spots where one can be very much surrounded by nature.

+1 from me and from each of my kids

mjh said:

yahooyahoo said:
Do you want recreation facilities or do you want natural green habitat?

Both, please.

yahooyahoo said:
Many years from now people will ask "What happened to the South Mountain Reservation? There used to be woods there." But you will have your mini-golf, swan boats, Muck Fest, nice s-curves, and expanded parking deck at the arena/zoo.

yahooyahoo I had this same argument on this forum a few years back. Don't let folks get you down. You are right, in my opinion, about Joey D's encroachment on one of the last large wild areas around here. We don't need to efficiently "utilize" every scrap of land in NJ. We do need trees and wild spaces for both animals and humans.

To some other folks on this thread, people value these wild spaces have just as much right to vigorously fight for them when they see this kind of encroachment. So, please don't start a pile-on if people don't support Joseph Di Vincenzo's legacy-building activities.

If the "wild" part of the reservation was not so large I would agree with you. But active reacreation activities are also important.

The development of the northwest corner of the reserve really hasn't gobbled up much primeval forest and I have NOT heard of any proposals to construct playing fields or anything else in the reservation.

I know. Let's build turf fields in town in exchange for saving trees in the Reservation.

It's not large. Each time we add some recreational space/attraction and the corresponding parking lot we just put more pressure on the "wild" space that does remain.

Sybil said:
If the "wild" part of the reservation was not so large I would agree with you. But active reacreation activities are also important.

It is 2,110 acres. The recreation area is only a very small part of that. Maybe 1%.

tjohn said:

ffof said:
If Joey D has so much to spend, I'd like to see the addition of a sports complex...large swimming facility plus indoor track.

Seems like he is doing that in Cedar Grove - turf fields and track. Nothing indoors.

Too bad that's so far from the geographic center of Essex County like West Orange is. I still hold out hope for a county indoor fitness/sports facility

mjh said:
But the space utilized for the recreational facilities was not even remotely "wild" . You seem unwilling to acknowledge what the space was like prior to development.

Exactly! I don't know if these posters simply haven't been here long enough to remember the more-or-less-blighted areas that these attractions replaced, or if they really had affection for the grubbly field used for carnivals or the abandoned house by the lake.

I will grant that there are a couple more paved parking lots than there used to be, but I think think that the changes merit the pavement, although I'd be out in protest if development moved out of that corner of the reservation.

I clearly remember those fields. They weren't landscaped but they had very large trees, open field and vegetation. Again, I had this conversation a few years ago about that very same spot. (I understand the parcel of land in question is owned by East Orange and is leased to Essex County)

I personally do not like the swan boats, the blue lights on the bridge over the water, McLoons and most especially the mini golf. We don't need these things. We do need trees and wild spaces. I behooves us to scrutinize (and perhaps speak up about) plans to remove them and to pave a lot of it.

I am very happy they planted a whole lot of trees but again, not long term planning, they are planted way too close together and need much more room in order to grow into very big trees.

When you say we don't need these things you kind of lose me. I don't use the boats, but many do. I also don't use the reservation, but many do. I think they are doing a pretty good job overall.

It is always packed there in nice weather. If anything the crowds show we need more things like this.

Sybil said:
It is always packed there in nice weather. If anything the crowds show we need more things like this.

The new shelter is a wonderful facility to rent for a group picnic (like the synagogue event we had there a month or so ago). The walking/running loop around the lake is a gem. The playground is excellent.

The Reservation also has miles of well marked maintained hiking trails that are under no threat from the developments on a small corner of the facility.

I'll just have to disagree with those who think it is dreadful that overflow parking, an abandoned residence and a fenced off lake have been transformed into facilities that give joy to many, and leave almost all of the Reservation untouched.

In the last year, my family has enjoyed the Reservation in all of the following ways (in addition to driving through it):

1. Camping with scouts

2. Hiking multiple trails, including the waterfall and the fairy houses, as well as the paved road to Washington Rock

3. Walking the loop around the Reservoir

4. Going to the zoo, including riding the Zoo train

5. Youth event at the zipline facility

6. Youth event at the mini golf course

7. Trips to the amazing new playground

8. Group picnic at the new facility

9. Dinner at McLoone's

I personally think that the Reservation has been significantly improved as a County asset in the time we have lived here. When we first moved here, the zoo was at risk of closure, the Reservoir was fenced off and decaying, and many fewer County residents used the facilities.

I think that the current balance is good one. The vast majority of the Reservation is still maintained and used as the Olmstead Firm designed it, and some elements outside of the original design have been developed into assets for County citizens to enjoy (even those who aren't hikers).

Have to say that as much as our taxes kill me, what has happened over there at the zoo complex makes me feel good about at least some of where my money is going. My family can spend an entire weekend there and often do. That was never the case a few years ago. Love JoeD or hate him, he has really revitalized that area and created a great family recreational complex.

Robert_Casotto said:
your taxes aren't going to support the zoo, they're going to, among myriad other things, pay to the investors the interest and principal and interest on the bonds issued to purprtedly have paid for the zoo improvements, bonds that get rolled over again and again and again and again. The annual dues purportedly pay for the zoo.

The zoo is a moneymaker, so it's all good.

JI was up at the reservoir today to take a walk and saw this insect.

Why isn't my picture of the beautiful butterfly on the planted milkweed showing up ?

Did it look like this?

-s.

It's hard to argue with the popularity of some of the improvements, but Joey D reminds me very much of a junior version of Mayor Richard M. Daley of Chicago (the son).

He was very big on physically improving the City, made residents proud of their City and left many fancy baubles as his legacy.

He also left the City in near financial ruin and made many friends very wealthy along the way.

Keep an eye on the overall picture and the long-term consequences of the cumulative impact of Joey D's approach to governance.

SteveIvan,

When Joey D took office, Essex County had a junk status bond rating. It now is rated AA2. I have a difficult time getting past his photo ops and grammar ("youse") but Essex Co. is in very good financial shape. Years ago, municipal bond buyers wouldn't touch Essex Co. bonds. Now they're among the most highly rated in the country.

I'm open to new information but will confess I'm reflexively skeptical of government that bond finances a restaurant, among other things.

That said, I have seen Joey D at Turtle Back Zoo multiple times and his interest seems to go beyond the awarding of contracts.

Again, his enthusiasm reminds me of Rich Daley.