What REALLY drove the Trump voter?
And no lunatic who builds towers with Chinese steel is gonna bring back steel jobs to PA.
RealityForAll said:
Did you see the map of voters who previously voted BHO but voted for DJT this year?
Title of the map in question: Where Donald J. Trump Outperformed Mitt Romney
I stand corrected. I attached the wrong map. I will get the right map up there shortly.
RobB said:
RealityForAll said:
Did you see the map of voters who previously voted BHO but voted for DJT this year?
Title of the map in question: Where Donald J. Trump Outperformed Mitt Romney
RobB said:
He's going to bring back "many millions of high paying energy and mining jobs!"
And when it doesn't happen, it will somehow be Obama's fault.
DrummerBoy,
I recommend you spend a night looking at the tattoos on this website:
It will bring your expectations of your fellow American down to a more realistic level. These are tattoos that people had permanently marked onto their own bodies. One might expect this decision to generate the highest level of thoughtfulness in content and thoroughness regarding spelling and grammar, and yet. . .
Voting for the best candidate based on a thorough and thoughtful analysis? That's not what the undecideds are about. And that's the group that swings U.S. elections one way or the other, year after year after year.
The most ridiculous thing Hillary's campaign did was to misunderstand who these swing voters are. Trump knew.
And, Obama knew. They both won them over by making impossible and vague promises. Bush, "A thousand points of light," knew.
The biggest mistake people who follow politics make is assuming their target voting bloc - undecided voters - follows politics. They don't. And they don't care about the things people who follow politics care about.
My biggest disappointment is that this is obvious to me, but Hillary Clinton, who has spent a life in politics and is married to an ex-president who seemed to know this, was unable to incorporate this into a winning campaign.
Was chatting with an acquaintance the other day when he suddenly veered the conversation onto the topic of the election and said, with obvious glee, "I am so happy Trump won -- all of these labels that say Made in China really bother me, and I know for sure he is going to be able to make it so they all say Made in USA." Huh? How could you miss that the man himself doesn't even manufacture his own items here!? I know it's petty and means nothing, but part of me was happy that the pods of Trump coffee were piled up on the clearance shelves at TJ Maxx over the weekend...
Why do the victims of a con game fall for the con? Trump is a con man. He knows how to market and how to sell.
But most of his votes came from those who always vote Republican like a friend of mine who said that everything was noise and nonsense but that Trump was likely to lower taxes on business and Hillary was likely to raise them. People who think that way voted for McCain and Romney and Trump as did those vote solely on their opposition to abortion.
There are those who voted against Clinton because she is a woman and those who voted for her because she is a woman.
There are those whose vote is almost completely irrational, like the woman described above who didn't like the sound of Hillary's voice. Those who study elections know that the factor of being on the top line on the ballot adds votes for candidate. Go figure!
And then there are those who voted for Obama's "Hope and Change" and "Trump's Make America Great Again". That's why campaigns have slogans.
Why do the victims of a con game fall for the con? Trump is a con man. He knows how to market and how to sell.
But most of his votes came from those who always vote Republican like a friend of mine who said that everything was noise and nonsense but that Trump was likely to lower taxes on business and Hillary was likely to raise them. People who think that way voted for McCain and Romney and Trump as did those vote solely on their opposition to abortion.
There are those who voted against Clinton because she is a woman and those who voted for her because she is a woman.
There are those whose vote is almost completely irrational, like the woman described above who didn't like the sound of Hillary's voice. Those who study elections know that the factor of being on the top line on the ballot adds votes for candidate. Go figure!
And then there are those who voted for Obama's "Hope and Change" and "Trump's Make America Great Again". That's why campaigns have slogans.
no. wrong.
Maps don't tell you crap.
The fact that so many Obama voters switched to vote for this monstrosity simply deepens the mystery of the workings of the Trump voters brain.
The map tells us exactly how much we don't understand these people. Not their needs, but how to convince them.
RealityForAll said:
Did you see the map of voters who previously voted BHO but voted for DJT this year?
The map in my last post tells me this situation has lot less to do with racism than economics.
PS I did not vote for DJT nor support him.
GL2 said:
RFA, did you know his beliefs? Do you agree with banning Muslims? Climate change is a hoax. Women should be punished for abortion? If so, then yes, my family and I are morally superior.
I was kinda with ya until you tried to compare Obama's campaign to Trump's.
Are ya sh**ing me?
How could Hillary, or anyone with any moral sensibility, out-promise Trump in this election?
Impossible.
eta: Not sure why you think I have unrealistic expectations of the American people. I know these folks are unreachable through reason, and that they're emotion driven.
That hardly begins to explain the current horror. This is sui generis, and anyone who simply tosses it off as being because of this, that or the other is being quite short-sighted, I think.
eta2: I believe Bush's "a thousand points of light" was from the Inaugural - it was not a campaign thing.
eta3: As for tattoos, I kind of think the decision to permanently mark your body with ink, especially at a young age, is generally akin to voting for Trump in the first place, so I have no expectation of thoughtful decision-making on their part.
jersey_boy said:
DrummerBoy,
I recommend you spend a night looking at the tattoos on this website:
http://www.tattoofailure.com/
It will bring your expectations of your fellow American down to a more realistic level. These are tattoos that people had permanently marked onto their own bodies. One might expect this decision to generate the highest level of thoughtfulness in content and thoroughness regarding spelling and grammar, and yet. . .
Voting for the best candidate based on a thorough and thoughtful analysis? That's not what the undecideds are about. And that's the group that swings U.S. elections one way or the other, year after year after year.
The most ridiculous thing Hillary's campaign did was to misunderstand who these swing voters are. Trump knew.
And, Obama knew. They both won them over by making impossible and vague promises. Bush, "A thousand points of light," knew.
The biggest mistake people who follow politics make is assuming their target voting bloc - undecided voters - follows politics. They don't. And they don't care about the things people who follow politics care about.
My biggest disappointment is that this is obvious to me, but Hillary Clinton, who has spent a life in politics and is married to an ex-president who seemed to know this, was unable to incorporate this into a winning campaign.
off topic, but in case no one has noticed, I am utterly obsessed with trying to understand this election outcome. I think about it all the time.
Anyone else in the same boat?
no, I'm depressed as hell because i already know that the next 4 years are going to be every wet republican dream and the conditions in our society our social safety net, our infrastructure, our economic health are all going to be at great risk.
drummerboy said:
So you just admitted they voted out of gross ignorance.
You're making progress.
author said:
RobB said:
author said:
Trump voters were concerned about the basics...............and the absolute bottom line in the basic category is work.
He promised to do away with treaties seen as siphoning off jobs to other countries. He was seen as a builder
who knew how to put people to work
Hillary offered applesauce. "Stronger together" meant nothing to the family who wanted work in a town where
there was none. Trump appealed to and made a pitch that he could and would furnish what people needed.
Hillary spoke smoke and mirrors. The family has nothing to offer but influence peddling and her arrogance
in using her own private e mail server which carried easily hacked national secrets was seen as threatening
You just weren't paying attention.
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2016/08/01/hillary-clintons-100-day-jobs-plan/
Apparently neither were enough voters in the states containing electors who would put Trump in the White House
and Hillary out to pasture
No.........they quite simply did not believe what was said by a pathological liar. It was a vote of no confidence, plain and simple
RealityForAll said:
Did you see the map of voters who previously voted BHO but voted for DJT this year?
The map in my last post tells me this situation has lot less to do with racism than economics.
PS I did not vote for DJT nor support him.
GL2 said:
RFA, did you know his beliefs? Do you agree with banning Muslims? Climate change is a hoax. Women should be punished for abortion? If so, then yes, my family and I are morally superior.
Racism played a large role. Romney wasn't running on an openly white nationalist agenda. If he had, he might have won.
yeah, except to believe Hillary was a pathological liar - literally, the opposite of the truth - merely points out how misinformed they, and you, are.
And to believe that she was a WORSE liar than Trump is not even describable in English.
of course, these words of unassailable reason and logic simply bounce of your cranium.
So, keep posting, as you give us an ongoing example of the workings of the Trumpist's mind.
author said:
drummerboy said:
So you just admitted they voted out of gross ignorance.
You're making progress.
author said:
RobB said:
author said:
Trump voters were concerned about the basics...............and the absolute bottom line in the basic category is work.
He promised to do away with treaties seen as siphoning off jobs to other countries. He was seen as a builder
who knew how to put people to work
Hillary offered applesauce. "Stronger together" meant nothing to the family who wanted work in a town where
there was none. Trump appealed to and made a pitch that he could and would furnish what people needed.
Hillary spoke smoke and mirrors. The family has nothing to offer but influence peddling and her arrogance
in using her own private e mail server which carried easily hacked national secrets was seen as threatening
You just weren't paying attention.
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2016/08/01/hillary-clintons-100-day-jobs-plan/
Apparently neither were enough voters in the states containing electors who would put Trump in the White House
and Hillary out to pasture
No.........they quite simply did not believe what was said by a pathological liar. It was a vote of no confidence, plain and simple
drummerboy said:
off topic, but in case no one has noticed, I am utterly obsessed with trying to understand this election outcome. I think about it all the time.
Anyone else in the same boat?
I think about it less and less, but still do. The press and pundits all want to point out the ONE thing that did it - and have identified the angry rural white voter in the Midwest who has lost his/her manufacturing job and feels left behind by the modern world, the modern economy, and the Democratic Party. I feel that is a simplistic view of things and there were about 30 other reasons, and I would place racism, sexism/misogyny, demagoguery/scapegoating/fear of "others/ xenophobia, and the bashing of the MSM and rise of fake news where people go only to have their opinions reinforced, facts be damned, all above the forgotten rural white manufacturing worker. Throw in HRC being a policy wonk and not "exciting" and her hefty baggage (whether true or not I'm not going to get into, but it has been over 30 years of Clinton bashing and "scandals", some of her own making, i.e., using a private email server) . There were disgruntled Bernie supporters, Jill Stein and Gary Johnson, FBI Director Comey getting involved a week before election day, and about 20 other reasons.
HRC's chance was in 2008 but again she was done in by her own decision making. I have written before on this board that her vote in favor of the Iraq War was the most disastrous decision for her political career. What America needed at that time was a true statesman/woman, someone who saw that we had to step back from the precipice and make a brave and courageous decision, and not go along with the irrational crowd for fear of looking weak on terror. In my book, HRC failed miserably at that key moment in our history. Had she come out with a principled stand against the war at that time with passionate statements (as Barack Obama did), I firmly believe she would have been the nominee in 2008 and gone on to defeat McCain. It is the reason I and many others voted for President Obama, and I had always been a HRC fan. Who knows, had she not voted for the Iraq War she might be finishing her second term right now and passing the torch on to President Elect Obama.
drummerboy said:
off topic, but in case no one has noticed, I am utterly obsessed with trying to understand this election outcome. I think about it all the time.
Anyone else in the same boat?
I'm with hoops - depressed as hell and looking toward the awful awful reign of this psycho. Initially, as with you, I was at a loss to understand how this could happen. That evolved into my being angry as hell. I've come to believe that white supremacy has triumphed and that the character of the U.S. has transformed overnight from a compassionate, scandal-free, rational administration to a right wing dick-tatorship.
I have absolutely no compassion for voters who wanted "change." Change what? The march of progress that made their jobs obsolete? Change the efforts to slow climate change? The changing complexion of the population?
Apparently, the change they wanted was a return to white supremacy.* I also think it's perfectly fair to compare the disillusioned and ignorant masses to the voters who brought you-know-who to power in 1933 Germany.
* Interestingly, some creative app developer created a Chrome app that changes any reference to "alt-right" to "white supremacy."
Every new announcement of a cabinet job increases my depression and anger.
drummerboy said:
off topic, but in case no one has noticed, I am utterly obsessed with trying to understand this election outcome. I think about it all the time.
Anyone else in the same boat?
One of the real silver linings in this election has been getting the opportunity to watch your completely flummoxed reaction to it. Unless you are ready for some real self-examination (and I'm sure you are not), I don't think you will ever understand it.
Yup, there were many causes of the result, several of them identified above. But one cause is almost certainly the extreme condescending attitudes of ultra-liberals like yourself, who, in an attempt to understand the results, actually say things like we need to understand "Not their needs, but how to convince them". This is not a perspective from which true understanding will be gained.
Of course within the bubble you live in, you will probably feel it's OK to deny this. But to you I can say, "Thanks for doing your part to elect Donald Trump".*
(*sarcasm alert - I'm not actually grateful for the election result)
If they lose citizenship, where do they go? Does Donnie Douchebag even think about these things?
and the enjoyable thing about the election is hearing smug conservatives like your self pretend to understand anything about this election. The whole "condescension" thing is hilarious.
You mean they voted badly (and shot themselves in the foot while doing it) because we hurt their fee fees?
And I'm supposed to feel guilty about that?
haha
eta: dude. we live in new effing jersey. We've been the laughing stock of the country for many, many years. Even Mississippians feel superior to us. Do we vote as a reaction to that?
it's just so-o-o simplistic. and kinda stupid, actually.
ice said:
drummerboy said:
off topic, but in case no one has noticed, I am utterly obsessed with trying to understand this election outcome. I think about it all the time.
Anyone else in the same boat?
One of the real silver linings in this election has been getting the opportunity to watch your completely flummoxed reaction to it. Unless you are ready for some real self-examination (and I'm sure you are not), I don't think you will ever understand it.
Yup, there were many causes of the result, several of them identified above. But one cause is almost certainly the extreme condescending attitudes of ultra-liberals like yourself, who, in an attempt to understand the results, actually say things like we need to understand "Not their needs, but how to convince them". This is not a perspective from which true understanding will be gained.
Of course within the bubble you live in, you will probably feel it's OK to deny this. But to you I can say, "Thanks for doing your part to elect Donald Trump".*
(*sarcasm alert - I'm not actually grateful for the election result)
And rural vs urban. It's incredibly striking how population density correlated with voting choice. Despite the stereotype that all of us in cities and inner ring suburbs spend most of our time looking down on the "hicks," I don't think that's really the issue as much as the amount of time and effort people in rural areas spend hating us.
As I've written before, I don't see an answer to that. It's not like we're going to give up our values to appeal to conservative Christians. And they hate us because we won't
bettyd said:
drummerboy said:
off topic, but in case no one has noticed, I am utterly obsessed with trying to understand this election outcome. I think about it all the time.
Anyone else in the same boat?
I think about it less and less, but still do. The press and pundits all want to point out the ONE thing that did it - and have identified the angry rural white voter in the Midwest who has lost his/her manufacturing job and feels left behind by the modern world, the modern economy, and the Democratic Party. I feel that is a simplistic view of things and there were about 30 other reasons, and I would place racism, sexism/misogyny, demagoguery/scapegoating/fear of "others/ xenophobia, and the bashing of the MSM and rise of fake news where people go only to have their opinions reinforced, facts be damned, all above the forgotten rural white manufacturing worker. Throw in HRC being a policy wonk and not "exciting" and her hefty baggage (whether true or not I'm not going to get into, but it has been over 30 years of Clinton bashing and "scandals", some of her own making, i.e., using a private email server) . There were disgruntled Bernie supporters, Jill Stein and Gary Johnson, FBI Director Comey getting involved a week before election day, and about 20 other reasons.
HRC's chance was in 2008 but again she was done in by her own decision making. I have written before on this board that her vote in favor of the Iraq War was the most disastrous decision for her political career. What America needed at that time was a true statesman/woman, someone who saw that we had to step back from the precipice and make a brave and courageous decision, and not go along with the irrational crowd for fear of looking weak on terror. In my book, HRC failed miserably at that key moment in our history. Had she come out with a principled stand against the war at that time with passionate statements (as Barack Obama did), I firmly believe she would have been the nominee in 2008 and gone on to defeat McCain. It is the reason I and many others voted for President Obama, and I had always been a HRC fan. Who knows, had she not voted for the Iraq War she might be finishing her second term right now and passing the torch on to President Elect Obama.
drummerboy said:
yeah, except to believe Hillary was a pathological liar - literally, the opposite of the truth - merely points out how misinformed they, and you, are.
And to believe that she was a WORSE liar than Trump is not even describable in English.
of course, these words of unassailable reason and logic simply bounce of your cranium.
So, keep posting, as you give us an ongoing example of the workings of the Trumpist's mind.
author said:
drummerboy said:
So you just admitted they voted out of gross ignorance.
You're making progress.
author said:
RobB said:
author said:
Trump voters were concerned about the basics...............and the absolute bottom line in the basic category is work.
He promised to do away with treaties seen as siphoning off jobs to other countries. He was seen as a builder
who knew how to put people to work
Hillary offered applesauce. "Stronger together" meant nothing to the family who wanted work in a town where
there was none. Trump appealed to and made a pitch that he could and would furnish what people needed.
Hillary spoke smoke and mirrors. The family has nothing to offer but influence peddling and her arrogance
in using her own private e mail server which carried easily hacked national secrets was seen as threatening
You just weren't paying attention.
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2016/08/01/hillary-clintons-100-day-jobs-plan/
Apparently neither were enough voters in the states containing electors who would put Trump in the White House
and Hillary out to pasture
No.........they quite simply did not believe what was said by a pathological liar. It was a vote of no confidence, plain and simple
Let us start with the Bosnia airport incident...................remember that one
Then their were the numerous interrogations of her, on film of course where she conveniently " could not recall",
the subject at hand
Then, also on film she proclaimed that she was told she was allowed to use her own private e mail server
which was completely denied by all State Department officials
and the list goes on and on and on
Hillary seems to forget that video tape is in use today and leaves a permanent record of her "misquotes"
You are defending the indefensible..........She sank her self without Trump's help
Seriously dude? Dick Morris? He's one of the slimiest liars around
author said:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/hillarys_list_of_lies.html
GL2 said:
I just wanna burn a fcuking flag.
A silver lining in aftermath of Trump's election: there has been a tidal wave of donations to the American Civil Liberties Union.
Rentals
Sponsored Business
Promote your business here - Businesses get highlighted throughout the site and you can add a deal.
Our manufacturing economy is doing very well - with many fewer workers.
Look, if you're a middle-aged or older blue collar unemployed person, you need to get by as best you can through unsatisfying jobs or - less likely - retraining until Medicare and social security kick in.
But if you're telling your teen son to strap on his mining helmet and get ready to go to work, you're disillusioned. The past is past.