The Rose Garden and White House happenings: Listening to voters’ concerns

mtierney said:

https://www.commonsense.news/p/why-im-giving-up-tenure-at-ucla

Truly scary stuff happening at the college level — 

It's the leopard who was previously living at the White House I'm worried about. He's now in Florida, where there's another leopard I'm warily watching as well.


mtierney said:

https://www.commonsense.news/p/why-im-giving-up-tenure-at-ucla

Truly scary stuff happening at the college level — 

anyone using the term "woke" without irony has forfeited the right to be taken seriously. Especially as often as the professor uses it in this particular screed. 


It looks like all established dictionaries incl. Merriam-Webster, Cambridge , Dictionary dot com etc now define woke. So you may have a personal hangup with the word, but that doesn't mean it's not a legitimate word that can be used unironically. 


Smedley said:

It looks like all established dictionaries incl. Merriam-Webster, Cambridge , Dictionary dot com etc now define woke. So you may have a personal hangup with the word, but that doesn't mean it's not a legitimate word that can be used unironically. 

yes it does. what difference does it make if it has an official definition?  99.99% of irony is described by words with official definitions.

and the fact is that use of the word, mostly by the right, has little to do with the official definition anyway.


drummerboy said:

Smedley said:

It looks like all established dictionaries incl. Merriam-Webster, Cambridge , Dictionary dot com etc now define woke. So you may have a personal hangup with the word, but that doesn't mean it's not a legitimate word that can be used unironically. 

yes it does. what difference does it make if it has an official definition? 

well in choosing to use a word or not I generally go by whether it’s an actual word. Perhaps you have an alternative criteria, like whether or not you approve of the word.


Smedley said:

drummerboy said:

Smedley said:

It looks like all established dictionaries incl. Merriam-Webster, Cambridge , Dictionary dot com etc now define woke. So you may have a personal hangup with the word, but that doesn't mean it's not a legitimate word that can be used unironically. 

yes it does. what difference does it make if it has an official definition? 

well in choosing to use a word or not I generally go by whether it’s an actual word. Perhaps you have an alternative criteria, like whether or not you approve of the word.

um, we're talking about it in relation to irony.

I'm pretty sure you knew that.

And you never use a word before it makes it into the dictionary? What a boring life.

Actually, your earlier post about the definition makes no sense, now that I think about it. What does an official definition have to do with irony? Why even go there?


I’m not sure I get your point. I’m saying “woke” is an actual word, like it or not, and as such one is free to use that word without qualification, ie whether ironically or non-ironically.

What are you saying, exactly? That the word can only be used as a spoof?


The way the word has been split from it's very simple dictionary definition so that it is primarily used as a political cudgel makes the word useless these days.

An attempt to use the word unironically means

1) you're either cudgeling or

2) you're kind of clueless.

Unless of course you're talking about "woke" at a meta-level.


Well I disagree. I think an irrational insistence that a legitimate word be used only how you want it to be used means

1) you don’t like the word, and/or 

2) you’re OCD


Smedley said:

Well I disagree. I think an irrational insistence that a legitimate word be used only how you want it to be used means

1) you don’t like the word, and/or 

2) you’re OCD

neither. I expect a college professor to be able to write a persuasive article without resorting to repeatedly using a right wing cliché. 


Smedley said:

Well I disagree. I think an irrational insistence that a legitimate word be used only how you want it to be used means

1) you don’t like the word, and/or 

2) you’re OCD

sure, I guess, if it's an "irrational insistence".  long face


drummerboy said:

sure, I guess, if it's an "irrational insistence". 
long face

To me the use of such an overused word indicates intellectual laziness. And a reliance on an emotionally charged term over reason. So I don't take the writer seriously.


Smedley said:

well in choosing to use a word or not I generally go by whether it’s an actual word. Perhaps you have an alternative criteria, like whether or not you approve of the word.

Dictionaries contain lots of pejorative words I’m not crazy about using, or crazy about their use by others. Thankfully, most dictionaries only describe, and don’t prescribe, them. Is that an issue?


DaveSchmidt said:

Dictionaries contain lots of pejorative words I’m not crazy about using, or crazy about their use by others. Thankfully, most dictionaries only describe, and don’t prescribe, them. Is that an issue?

dictionaries also tend to lag behind usage among regular folks in the population. And "woke" is a pretty good example of a word whose meaning has evolved. It doesn't mean the same thing when Tucker Carlson uses it as when it was used years ago by Black people. 

And whether or not anyone agrees with me, I don't have an "irrational" reaction to the word "woke." I have rational reasons for concluding that people who use it are intellectually lazy and/or displaying an obvious bias. 


ml1 said:

dictionaries also tend to lag behind usage among regular folks in the population. And "woke" is a pretty good example of a word whose meaning has evolved. It doesn't mean the same thing when Tucker Carlson uses it as when it was used years ago by Black people. 

And whether or not anyone agrees with me, I don't have an "irrational" reaction to the word "woke." I have rational reasons for concluding that people who use it are intellectually lazy and/or displaying an obvious bias. 

I noticed the word was added to this thread title just around the time Carlson started using it …

This entire thread is based on obvious bias…she’s actually the one nodding off…


Nowhere in the merriam Webster definition does it mention woke as a pejorative. Nor does it mention in its usage descriptions of “why Star Trek and Disney shows suck now”.


Nothing's better than a discussion of word definitions here on the MOL.

[Edited to add illustration]


ridski said:

Nowhere in the merriam Webster definition does it mention woke as a pejorative. Nor does it mention in its usage descriptions of “why Star Trek and Disney shows suck now”.

nor does it mention its connotation as "I'm a right wing snowflake."


This NYT story is the type of coverage only the paper of record can provide — and explains why I have been subscriber since 1962. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/10/us/croydon-free-state-politics.html

Back in the day, when the Maplewood-South Orange school district was beset with state mandates, declining enrollment, deteriorating buildings, and desegregation, there was a similar stirring of the population — dare I say, an awakening? Maplewood’s meetings became the best attended show in town, with taxpayers spilled out onto Valley St and the mayor had to use a bullhorn! 

The great tax rate hike of the century war was born. Meetings of concerned neighbors were held in living rooms and letters to the editor filled the News-Record pages. Maplewood suddenly was divided into East side and West side, below and above Prospect Street, etc. MOL was in its infancy as a dial-up, and the proliferation and use of cellphones was just beginning. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/10/us/croydon-free-state-politics.html

If you are courageous enough to open the link, you will get the story about the fired police chief’s response.



mtierney said:

This NYT story is the type of coverage only the paper of record can provide — and explains why I have been subscriber since 1962. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/10/us/croydon-free-state-politics.html

Back in the day, when the Maplewood-South Orange school district was beset with state mandates, declining enrollment, deteriorating buildings, and desegregation, there was a similar stirring of the population — dare I say, an awakening? Maplewood’s meetings became the best attended show in town, with taxpayers spilled out onto Valley St and the mayor had to use a bullhorn! 

The great tax rate hike of the century war was born. Meetings of concerned neighbors were held in living rooms and letters to the editor filled the News-Record pages. Maplewood suddenly was divided into East side and West side, below and above Prospect Street, etc. MOL was in its infancy as a dial-up, and the proliferation and use of cellphones was just beginning. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/10/us/croydon-free-state-politics.html

If you are courageous enough to open the link, you will get the story about the fired police chief’s response.

holy cow.  You can't even get the facts of a Maplewood story right. The story in. 2000 was a tax revaluation, not a tax rate hike. And it had nothing to do with the school district.


ml1 said:

mtierney said:

This NYT story is the type of coverage only the paper of record can provide — and explains why I have been subscriber since 1962. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/10/us/croydon-free-state-politics.html

Back in the day, when the Maplewood-South Orange school district was beset with state mandates, declining enrollment, deteriorating buildings, and desegregation, there was a similar stirring of the population — dare I say, an awakening? Maplewood’s meetings became the best attended show in town, with taxpayers spilled out onto Valley St and the mayor had to use a bullhorn! 

The great tax rate hike of the century war was born. Meetings of concerned neighbors were held in living rooms and letters to the editor filled the News-Record pages. Maplewood suddenly was divided into East side and West side, below and above Prospect Street, etc. MOL was in its infancy as a dial-up, and the proliferation and use of cellphones was just beginning. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/10/us/croydon-free-state-politics.html

If you are courageous enough to open the link, you will get the story about the fired police chief’s response.

holy cow.  You can't even get the facts of a Maplewood story right. The story in. 2000 was a tax revaluation, not a tax rate hike. And it had nothing to do with the school district.

It was a seriously misleading characterization about everything being discussed in the community at that time.


nohero said:

It was a seriously misleading characterization about everything being discussed in the community at that time.

I wonder if the author of that piece still lives in maplewood….


ml1 said:

holy cow.  You can't even get the facts of a Maplewood story right. The story in. 2000 was a tax revaluation, not a tax rate hike. And it had nothing to do with the school district.

The Tax revaluation resulted in a $5K tax hike for our home overnight — the beginning of yearly increases. It most certainly connects to the BOE — the biggest spender of tax dollars in the budgets.

You know the old expression about how one thing leads to another?


mtierney said:

The Tax revaluation resulted in a $5K tax hike for our home overnight — the beginning of yearly increases. It most certainly connects to the BOE — the biggest spender of tax dollars in the budgets.

You know the old expression about how one thing leads to another?

mine went down a couple thousand after reval…you were not paying your fair share. I was overpaying. 


mtierney said:
Back in the day, when the Maplewood-South Orange school district was beset with state mandates, declining enrollment, deteriorating buildings, and desegregation


mtierney said:

The Tax revaluation resulted in a $5K tax hike for our home overnight — the beginning of yearly increases. It most certainly connects to the BOE — the biggest spender of tax dollars in the budgets.

You know the old expression about how one thing leads to another?

The reval was revenue neutral. My household's taxes went up 35%. But the plurality of Maplewood homeowners saw a decrease in their property taxes. Your characterization of the events of that time are false. 


mtierney said:

ml1 said:

holy cow.  You can't even get the facts of a Maplewood story right. The story in. 2000 was a tax revaluation, not a tax rate hike. And it had nothing to do with the school district.

The Tax revaluation resulted in a $5K tax hike for our home overnight — the beginning of yearly increases. It most certainly connects to the BOE — the biggest spender of tax dollars in the budgets.

You know the old expression about how one thing leads to another?

You mean how spending on schools leads to education?


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