The Rose Garden and White House happenings: Listening to voters’ concerns
GL2 said:
In Caste (Wilkerson, 2020), the author identifies 3 recent caste systems in order to clarify its meaning: India, Nazis, and U.S.
Af Ams can all achieve PhDs and become billionaires while still remaining ni&&ers to a racist society where poor whites still can play the caste card, knowing that race means so much in the U.S. And upper caste Indian-Americans can still look down on the very few lower caste Indians and Indian Americans fortunate enough to have been educated and immigrated to the U.S. By name or other markers, caste is clear to them. And Nazis? No need to expand.
Only remediation for a racist society is government and laws.
On another current topic, I remember fondly watching high school field hockey players sliding through the goose poop-filled fields of suburban Morris Cty., sometimes landing on their backs. Also remember the Newark Academy border collie who did his morning rounds from a custodian's golf cart, hopping off and on as he chased flocks on the campus.
Of course, one difference between the US and India is that India has a very vigorous affirmative action system.
GL2 said:
And upper caste Indian-Americans can still look down on the very few lower caste Indians and Indian Americans fortunate enough to have been educated and immigrated to the U.S. By name or other markers, caste is clear to them.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/27/indian-caste-bias-silicon-valley/
ml1 said:
Smedley said:
What you call a clear implication, I call you projecting.
Are you sure you know what "projecting" means? Because I don't see how that applies here.
Or maybe I am projecting in the sense that when I make a comment, I don't intend it to have no point to it. So maybe you're right that it's just me projecting by assuming you actually think about the info you post and what it means in the larger discussion.
From now on I'll just assume your comments are pointless and meaningless tangents.
You're projecting an argument onto me that I'm not making. You want to take the other side of the argument that because U.S. is a comparatively less racist country, Black Americans should take heart. The fact that I don't make that argument doesn't seem to faze you, as you're taking the other side regardless. I guess you win?
And I don't get your fixation on "point". As I've said, my initial posts on this topic were in response to another poster, in which I offered a different perspective. Is that not what this forum is about, to exchange perspectives and viewpoints? What am I missing?
If every post needs a clearly articulated "point" that ties back to the broader discussion, then you have a lot of work to do, as there must be thousands of posts on MOL that need further scrutiny.
Smedley “ You're projecting an argument onto me that I'm not making. You want to take the other side of the argument that because U.S. is a comparatively less racist country, Black Americans should take heart. The fact that I don't make that argument doesn't seem to faze you, as you're taking the other side regardless. I guess you win?
Took a look today and found it fascinating and informative to read the comments, absentia. The Boys Club showed you no mercy, Smedley, for daring to post your opinions and share a link to support a POV unacceptable to the dogmatists here.
Enjoying my hiatus from politics, but, like MacArthur, I shall return.
Smedley said:
You're projecting an argument onto me that I'm not making. You want to take the other side of the argument that because U.S. is a comparatively less racist country, Black Americans should take heart. The fact that I don't make that argument doesn't seem to faze you, as you're taking the other side regardless. I guess you win?
And I don't get your fixation on "point". As I've said, my initial posts on this topic were in response to another poster, in which I offered a different perspective. Is that not what this forum is about, to exchange perspectives and viewpoints? What am I missing?
If every post needs a clearly articulated "point" that ties back to the broader discussion, then you have a lot of work to do, as there must be thousands of posts on MOL that need further scrutiny.
It's not credible that you weren't trying to make some kind of point about the U.S. being superior to most other countries on the issue of racism.
And my point is -- even if that's true what difference does it make?
ml1 said:
Smedley said:
You're projecting an argument onto me that I'm not making. You want to take the other side of the argument that because U.S. is a comparatively less racist country, Black Americans should take heart. The fact that I don't make that argument doesn't seem to faze you, as you're taking the other side regardless. I guess you win?
And I don't get your fixation on "point". As I've said, my initial posts on this topic were in response to another poster, in which I offered a different perspective. Is that not what this forum is about, to exchange perspectives and viewpoints? What am I missing?
If every post needs a clearly articulated "point" that ties back to the broader discussion, then you have a lot of work to do, as there must be thousands of posts on MOL that need further scrutiny.
It's not credible that you weren't trying to make some kind of point about the U.S. being superior to most other countries on the issue of racism.
And my point is -- even if that's true what difference does it make?
It's not credible that you weren't trying to make some kind of point about the U.S. being superior to most other countries on the issue of racism.
Seriously. smedley got cornered because he wasn't getting any traction, and then tried to rewrite the entire history of his posts on this subject. Pretty slippery. And dishonest.
mtierney said:
like MacArthur, I shall return.
Or herpes. We too are enjoying the hiatus from your racist blather.
mtierney said:
Smedley “ You're projecting an argument onto me that I'm not making. You want to take the other side of the argument that because U.S. is a comparatively less racist country, Black Americans should take heart. The fact that I don't make that argument doesn't seem to faze you, as you're taking the other side regardless. I guess you win?
Took a look today and found it fascinating and informative to read the comments, absentia. The Boys Club showed you no mercy, Smedley, for daring to post your opinions and share a link to support a POV unacceptable to the dogmatists here.
Enjoying my hiatus from politics, but, like MacArthur, I shall return.
Even when I disagree with Smedley's posts, I'll defend them from being compared with yours.
PVW said:
Even when I disagree with Smedley's posts, I'll defend them from being compared with yours.
Yeah, that was my thought exactly.
drummerboy said:
ml1 said:
Smedley said:
You're projecting an argument onto me that I'm not making. You want to take the other side of the argument that because U.S. is a comparatively less racist country, Black Americans should take heart. The fact that I don't make that argument doesn't seem to faze you, as you're taking the other side regardless. I guess you win?
And I don't get your fixation on "point". As I've said, my initial posts on this topic were in response to another poster, in which I offered a different perspective. Is that not what this forum is about, to exchange perspectives and viewpoints? What am I missing?
If every post needs a clearly articulated "point" that ties back to the broader discussion, then you have a lot of work to do, as there must be thousands of posts on MOL that need further scrutiny.
It's not credible that you weren't trying to make some kind of point about the U.S. being superior to most other countries on the issue of racism.
And my point is -- even if that's true what difference does it make?
It's not credible that you weren't trying to make some kind of point about the U.S. being superior to most other countries on the issue of racism.
Seriously. smedley got cornered because he wasn't getting any traction, and then tried to rewrite the entire history of his posts on this subject. Pretty slippery. And dishonest.
Ha. One of the more inane posts I've seen. Do you really think I'm here to try to get 'traction'? I guess that's in the form of Likes or persuading people to come around to my point of view? Yeah, that's why I'm here. Hasn't worked once in 4 1/2 years, but I'll keep trying!
Separately, and seriously, I take offense at your BS assertion that I "tried to rewrite the entire history of my posts on this subject" in a "slippery" and "dishonest" way. So I am asking you to respond and elaborate. This will require you doing better than your usual half-baked shorthand, and please quote me directly rather than your usual paraphrasing and mischaracterizing. Please present a sequential timeline of my pertinent posts, highlighting when/how I tried to rewrite.
I'm really looking forward to seeing this.
Smedley said:
drummerboy said:
ml1 said:
Smedley said:
You're projecting an argument onto me that I'm not making. You want to take the other side of the argument that because U.S. is a comparatively less racist country, Black Americans should take heart. The fact that I don't make that argument doesn't seem to faze you, as you're taking the other side regardless. I guess you win?
And I don't get your fixation on "point". As I've said, my initial posts on this topic were in response to another poster, in which I offered a different perspective. Is that not what this forum is about, to exchange perspectives and viewpoints? What am I missing?
If every post needs a clearly articulated "point" that ties back to the broader discussion, then you have a lot of work to do, as there must be thousands of posts on MOL that need further scrutiny.
It's not credible that you weren't trying to make some kind of point about the U.S. being superior to most other countries on the issue of racism.
And my point is -- even if that's true what difference does it make?
It's not credible that you weren't trying to make some kind of point about the U.S. being superior to most other countries on the issue of racism.
Seriously. smedley got cornered because he wasn't getting any traction, and then tried to rewrite the entire history of his posts on this subject. Pretty slippery. And dishonest.
Ha. One of the more inane posts I've seen. Do you really think I'm here to try to get 'traction'? I guess that's in the form of Likes or persuading people to come around to my point of view? Yeah, that's why I'm here. Hasn't worked once in 4 1/2 years, but I'll keep trying!
Separately, and seriously, I take offense at your BS assertion that I "tried to rewrite the entire history of my posts on this subject" in a "slippery" and "dishonest" way. So I am asking you to respond and elaborate. This will require you doing better than your usual half-baked shorthand, and please quote me directly rather than your usual paraphrasing and mischaracterizing. Please present a sequential timeline of my pertinent posts, highlighting when/how I tried to rewrite.
I'm really looking forward to seeing this.
elaboration not needed. all one has to do is start with your initial post on this subject and read through.
from here
Not that any of the respondents need to do this, as they're well aware of what you did. Maybe you should try reading through the posts to see how your position changed.
Half-baked shorthand, as I expected. Hoped for something better, but got the usual.
Smedley said:
Half-baked shorthand, as I expected. Hoped for something better, but got the usual.
The evidence is in your posts. No need for further analysis. It's all there.
Why don't you just own up to it?
You have a golden opportunity to nail me in black and white, all on one post for everyone to see, rather than lamely referring back to the thread generically. Not sure why you don't take advantage.
Pro tip: maybe focus on the quality of your posts rather than the quantity. It's great you're in every thread and that you've started half of them, but it dilutes the brand. You're like the house wine of MOL.
this is not shorthand:
Smedley said:Racism isn’t easy to quantify, and it remains a persistent problem here as well as elsewhere. But on a comparative basis, I strongly believe the U.S. is among the least racist countries in the world, and what data does exist supports this viewpoint.
and I'll repeat that this sort of sentiment is a good example of white privilege. If you're Black, why do you care if the U.S. is among the least racist countries? It's not as if any amount of racism is acceptable.
and why not just admit that maybe there's some truth to our replies? IMHO it's pretty cowardly to post the explicit sentiment "I strongly believe the U.S. is among the least racist countries in the world" and then try to weasel out of it when a few of us try to get you to explain what the relevance of that is to Black people in this country.
Smedley said:
You have a golden opportunity to nail me in black and white, all on one post for everyone to see, rather than lamely referring back to the thread generically. Not sure why you don't take advantage.
Pro tip: maybe focus on the quality of your posts rather than the quantity. It's great you're in every thread and that you've started half of them, but it dilutes the brand. You're like the house wine of MOL.
because "nailing you" doesn't need any analysis on my part. It's all here, in black and white, in this thread.
You've nailed yourself, as ml1 amply demonstrates from that single post he quoted.
ETA: yeah, maybe I post a lot. so what? anyway, no one can accuse me of trying to weasel out of something I said.
ml1 said:
this is not shorthand:
Smedley said:Racism isn’t easy to quantify, and it remains a persistent problem here as well as elsewhere. But on a comparative basis, I strongly believe the U.S. is among the least racist countries in the world, and what data does exist supports this viewpoint.
and I'll repeat that this sort of sentiment is a good example of white privilege. If you're Black, why do you care if the U.S. is among the least racist countries? It's not as if any amount of racism is acceptable.
and why not just admit that maybe there's some truth to our replies? IMHO it's pretty cowardly to post the explicit sentiment "I strongly believe the U.S. is among the least racist countries in the world" and then try to weasel out of it when a few of us try to get you to explain what the relevance of that is to Black people in this country.
I'm glad you brought this up. Yes I do believe the U.S. is among the least racist countries. And I don't have a firm opinion of what that means to Black people in this country, primarily because I am not Black. I'm sure there are Black Americans who love the U.S. for the opportunities it provides, and its relatively low racism. I'm sure there are other Black Americans for whom relatively low racism is meaningless. You seem to think every Black American fits in that second group. I don't.
So if you believe my not offering an opinion on what the relevance is to Black people is cowardly or weaselly, than that is your belief. I don't offer an opinion because I don't have a firm opinion either way, which I guess means I need to learn more.
I will say that in your certainty that Black people should/would find relatively low racism in the U.S. meaningless, you're effectively whitesplaining.
On 4/16 you said :"And if you're a Black person in the U.S., what consolation is it for someone to tell you that a lot of other countries are more racist than the U.S.? ...Why would it be of any relevance to a person of color in this country to be told that most other countries are more racist than ours?"
So you can call out white privilege in your sanctimonious way, and smugly make your "point", but just recognize that your whitesplaining kind of undermines that allegation.
Smedley said:
I'm glad you brought this up. Yes I do believe the U.S. is among the least racist countries. And I don't have a firm opinion of what that means to Black people in this country, primarily because I am not Black. I'm sure there are Black Americans who love the U.S. for the opportunities it provides, and its relatively low racism. I'm sure there are other Black Americans for whom relatively low racism is meaningless. You seem to think every Black American fits in that second group. I don't.
So if you believe my not offering an opinion on what the relevance is to Black people is cowardly or weaselly, than that is your belief. I don't offer an opinion because I don't have a firm opinion either way, which I guess means I need to learn more.
I will say that in your certainty that Black people should/would find relatively low racism in the U.S. meaningless, you're effectively whitesplaining.
On 4/16 you said :"And if you're a Black person in the U.S., what consolation is it for someone to tell you that a lot of other countries are more racist than the U.S.? ...Why would it be of any relevance to a person of color in this country to be told that most other countries are more racist than ours?"
So you can call out white privilege in your sanctimonious way, and smugly make your "point", but just recognize that your whitesplaining kind of undermines that allegation.
Your last paragraph is nonsensical.
ridski said:
Up next, six men discuss how best to deal with postpartum depression.
would it be OK for one guy to tell another that maybe he's off base to say postpartum depression isn't that bad in the U.S.?
Smedley said:
I'm glad you brought this up. Yes I do believe the U.S. is among the least racist countries.
The study in the article you posted seems to mean "least likely for people to say they don't want neighbors of a different race." Is that also what you mean by "least racist?" Wouldn't a better measure be the percentage of people who actually do have neighbors of a different race? I don't know how the US would end up in a cross-country comparison on that, but regardless of where it ranks I'd argue the degree of actual integration is far too low, regardless of declared openness to it.
ml1 said:
would it be OK for one guy to tell another that maybe he's off base to say postpartum depression isn't that bad in the U.S.?
Yes, as long as neither one of them blocked the path to the keg.
PVW said:
Smedley said:
I'm glad you brought this up. Yes I do believe the U.S. is among the least racist countries.
The study in the article you posted seems to mean "least likely for people to say they don't want neighbors of a different race." Is that also what you mean by "least racist?" Wouldn't a better measure be the percentage of people who actually do have neighbors of a different race? I don't know how the US would end up in a cross-country comparison on that, but regardless of where it ranks I'd argue the degree of actual integration is far too low, regardless of declared openness to it.
our town is a great example of this. Almost all of us celebrate diversity. Very few people express racist opinions openly. Almost everyone would welcome people of color in our neighborhoods. Yet our town and our schools remain largely segregated. It's as if none of our people are racist, but somehow we still have racist outcomes. How does that happen?
ml1 said:
would it be OK for one guy to tell another that maybe he's off base to say postpartum depression isn't that bad in the U.S.?
Sure if you like, but this is all I'm seeing here.
A problem too big for free pizza to overcome:
“This event was canceled.”
ridski said:
ml1 said:
would it be OK for one guy to tell another that maybe he's off base to say postpartum depression isn't that bad in the U.S.?
Sure if you like, but this is all I'm seeing here.
I guess.
But considering it's white people who are perpetuating racism, I'm not seeing the joke in white people trying to talk honestly with each other about it. Should we just shut up until some Black people enter the discsusion?
ml1 said:
Smedley said:
I'm glad you brought this up. Yes I do believe the U.S. is among the least racist countries. And I don't have a firm opinion of what that means to Black people in this country, primarily because I am not Black. I'm sure there are Black Americans who love the U.S. for the opportunities it provides, and its relatively low racism. I'm sure there are other Black Americans for whom relatively low racism is meaningless. You seem to think every Black American fits in that second group. I don't.
So if you believe my not offering an opinion on what the relevance is to Black people is cowardly or weaselly, than that is your belief. I don't offer an opinion because I don't have a firm opinion either way, which I guess means I need to learn more.
I will say that in your certainty that Black people should/would find relatively low racism in the U.S. meaningless, you're effectively whitesplaining.
On 4/16 you said :"And if you're a Black person in the U.S., what consolation is it for someone to tell you that a lot of other countries are more racist than the U.S.? ...Why would it be of any relevance to a person of color in this country to be told that most other countries are more racist than ours?"
So you can call out white privilege in your sanctimonious way, and smugly make your "point", but just recognize that your whitesplaining kind of undermines that allegation.
Your last paragraph is nonsensical.
Upon further review, the syntax is indeed a bit fractured.
drummerboy said:
Smedley said:
You have a golden opportunity to nail me in black and white, all on one post for everyone to see, rather than lamely referring back to the thread generically. Not sure why you don't take advantage.
Pro tip: maybe focus on the quality of your posts rather than the quantity. It's great you're in every thread and that you've started half of them, but it dilutes the brand. You're like the house wine of MOL.
because "nailing you" doesn't need any analysis on my part. It's all here, in black and white, in this thread.
You've nailed yourself, as ml1 amply demonstrates from that single post he quoted.
ETA: yeah, maybe I post a lot. so what? anyway, no one can accuse me of trying to weasel out of something I said.
JUDGE: Prosecuting Attorney Drummerboy, you may now make your case.
DB ESQ: (Hands jurors QR code that links to all evidence)
JUDGE: Uh...Counsel, you're supposed to uh...*present* your case?
DB ESQ: Nah, no need. It's all there. Defendant is guilty as sin. I rest my case.
JURORS: (Exchange WTF looks)
In Caste (Wilkerson, 2020), the author identifies 3 recent caste systems in order to clarify its meaning: India, Nazis, and U.S.
Af Ams can all achieve PhDs and become billionaires while still remaining ni&&ers to a racist society where poor whites still can play the caste card, knowing that race means so much in the U.S. And upper caste Indian-Americans can still look down on the very few lower caste Indians and Indian Americans fortunate enough to have been educated and immigrated to the U.S. By name or other markers, caste is clear to them. And Nazis? No need to expand.
Only remediation for a racist society is government and laws.
On another current topic, I remember fondly watching high school field hockey players sliding through the goose poop-filled fields of suburban Morris Cty., sometimes landing on their backs. Also remember the Newark Academy border collie who did his morning rounds from a custodian's golf cart, hopping off and on as he chased flocks on the campus.