The Rose Garden and White House happenings: Listening to voters’ concerns

Smedley said:

 Ok. And a report about racism around the world, however flawed/limited/dated it is (and granted, it is all of those things), and a discussion about the premise of the report, provides zero value in attempting to learn and understand? 

 straw man. 

nohero said:

drummerboy said:

Moreover, why should anyone even care whether one country is more racist than another (whatever that actually means)? As racist as we are, does it somehow make you feel better to believe that there are worse countries than ours?

It's a version of what could be called the "Joey Buttafuoco Defense" (for those of you who remember that name from years ago): "Sure, I may have cheated on you, but at least not with a teenage girl who came to the door and shot you in the face!"

 And if you're a Black person in the U.S., what consolation is it for someone to tell you that a lot of other countries are more racist than the U.S.?  What's the acceptable amount of racism that exists in any country?

that's what I mean by this discussion as a prime example of white privilege.  Why would it be of any relevance to a person of color in this country to be told that most other countries are more racist than ours?  

My premise was never "other countries are more racist than the U.S., and that should be some consolation for Black people in the U.S.", as you are projecting in your scolding. 

Smedley said:

My premise was never "other countries are more racist than the U.S., and that should be some consolation for Black people in the U.S.", as you are projecting in your scolding. 

 then what exactly is your point in bringing this up?

Smedley said:

My premise was never "other countries are more racist than the U.S., and that should be some consolation for Black people in the U.S.", as you are projecting in your scolding. 

 No, but the article's premise is that the percentage of people who say they do not want neighbor's of a different race tells us something meaningful about how racist a society is, and that we can then somehow rank countries this way. I've already made my argument for why I don't think you can actually do this kind of ranking. Another point -- and I think this is what may of the other responses get at -- is that this kind of self-reporting does not, in fact, have much bearing on the how the targets of racism experience it.

What does it mean that "only 3.8 per cent of residents are reluctant to have a neighbour of another race" in the US when our neighborhoods, schools, and jobs are heavily segregated, when being black makes every traffic stop a potentially fatal encounter? What value is there in finding out that of all the racists in a country, only 3.8% will admit to it while the others will insist that some of their best friends' friends are black and they don't have a racist bone in their body?

I'd say the article is more revealing about how persistent misunderstanding of racism is -- from the idea that only people who explicitly call themselves racist act racist, to the idea that racism is mainly about individual actions and beliefs rather than structural, systematic conditions.

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

My premise was never "other countries are more racist than the U.S., and that should be some consolation for Black people in the U.S.", as you are projecting in your scolding. 

 then what exactly is your point in bringing this up?

I didn't bring it up. I initially (4/14 1:47 pm) responded to another poster's observation (4/13 9:14 pm) about racism seeming to be more blatant in the U.S. than elsewhere, and the discussion has continued. 

BTW that first post compared racism across borders, and there was no pearl clutching about that in the 16 hours before I responded.   

Smedley said:

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

My premise was never "other countries are more racist than the U.S., and that should be some consolation for Black people in the U.S.", as you are projecting in your scolding. 

 then what exactly is your point in bringing this up?

I didn't bring it up. I initially (4/14 1:47 pm) responded to another poster's observation (4/13 9:14 pm) about racism seeming to be more blatant in the U.S. than elsewhere, and the discussion has continued. 

BTW that first post compared racism across borders, and there was no pearl clutching about that in the 16 hours before I responded.   

 somehow everyone is misunderstanding the point of your racism digression.

It must be us I guess.

Smedley said:

BTW that first post compared racism across borders, and there was no pearl clutching about that in the 16 hours before I responded.   

You finally get a couple of us to agree with you, and ml1 calls it a straw man. I can understand why you might be a little flushed.

drummerboy said:

Smedley said:

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

My premise was never "other countries are more racist than the U.S., and that should be some consolation for Black people in the U.S.", as you are projecting in your scolding. 

 then what exactly is your point in bringing this up?

I didn't bring it up. I initially (4/14 1:47 pm) responded to another poster's observation (4/13 9:14 pm) about racism seeming to be more blatant in the U.S. than elsewhere, and the discussion has continued. 

BTW that first post compared racism across borders, and there was no pearl clutching about that in the 16 hours before I responded.   

 somehow everyone is misunderstanding the point of your racism digression.

It must be us I guess.

My posts are meant to share information, ideas and viewpoints which I believe this forum is intended for. In this discussion I said I believe the U.S. is less racist than most countries -- no "point" beyond that. People can take what they will from it, agree, disagree, disregard, or anything in between.

The blowback seems like not any disagreement with my view that the U.S. is less racist than most countries -- rather it's 'don't go there' in even making a comparison, like doing so is the eighth deadly sin. I don't quite get that, but w/e.

I could be wrong here, but I do believe that if there was a report that showed the U.S. was among the most racist countries in the world, people wouldn't have the same problem they have with the report I referenced.

Smedley said:

People can take what they will from it, agree, disagree, disregard, or anything in between.

As long as people don’t overreact, express some kind of consensus or make goo-goo eyes at one another, all of which can be disenchanting.

Smedley said:

My posts are meant to share information, ideas and viewpoints which I believe this forum is intended for. In this discussion I said I believe the U.S. is less racist than most countries -- no "point" beyond that. People can take what they will from it, agree, disagree, disregard, or anything in between.

The blowback seems like not any disagreement with my view that the U.S. is less racist than most countries -- rather it's 'don't go there' in even making a comparison, like doing so is the eighth deadly sin. I don't quite get that, but w/e.

I could be wrong here, but I do believe that if there was a report that showed the U.S. was among the most racist countries in the world, people wouldn't have the same problem they have with the report I referenced.

You are saying there was no point to what you posted?  OK.

so I guess I can understand how irritating it must be when people note the clear implication of your comments, even if you didn't intend it.  But it's not "blowback."  It's people asking "so what?"  What difference does it make at all if the U.S. really and truly is provably the least racist country on earth?  It's not "don't go there".  It's "why go there?" 

What you call a clear implication, I call you projecting. 

.

ml1 said:

You are saying there was no point to what you posted?  OK.

so I guess I can understand how irritating it must be when people note the clear implication of your comments, even if you didn't intend it.  But it's not "blowback."  It's people asking "so what?"  What difference does it make at all if the U.S. really and truly is provably the least racist country on earth?  It's not "don't go there".  It's "why go there?" 

 Turns out it was all just a big misunderstanding.  Smeds is almost as bad as RFA.

On a different note.

Smedley said:

What you call a clear implication, I call you projecting. 

Are you sure you know what "projecting" means? Because I don't see how that applies here. 

Or maybe I am projecting in the sense that when I make a comment, I don't intend it to have no point to it. So maybe you're right that it's just me projecting by assuming you actually think about the info you post and what it means in the larger discussion. 

From now on I'll just assume your comments are pointless and meaningless tangents. 

Smedley said:

I could be wrong here, but I do believe that if there was a report that showed the U.S. was among the most racist countries in the world, people wouldn't have the same problem they have with the report I referenced.

 Well, the idea of ranking would be just as wrong, but the risk of inaction would be less. Kind of like how if I tell you that your house is among the least likely to flood, then you get 1 foot of water because you don't prepare, that's worse than if I tell you you're house is most likely to flood, you prepare, and then you only get 1 foot of water. I was still wrong the second time, but you'd have more grounds to be mad at me for the first scenario. And of course, both those analogies are themselves in danger of being misleading since you can actually measure water levels and provide numerical probabilities for risk but I still don't know what is purported to be measured in ranking racism.

Smedley said:

I could be wrong here, but I do believe that if there was a report that showed the U.S. was among the most racist countries in the world, people wouldn't have the same problem they have with the report I referenced.

Yeah, you're wrong. If it was based on the same sh!t survey as you posted, the reactions would have been similar.

ETA: and regardless of your claims, you are clearly invested in the U.S. being less racist than other countries.

Canada geese want everyone dead?

DaveSchmidt said:

Canada geese want everyone dead?

 Don't slip on their their  poop and crack your skull open. 

DaveSchmidt said:

Canada geese want everyone dead?

 it's from Wikipedia, so take from it what you will:

Canada geese have been implicated in a number of bird strikes by aircraft. Their large size and tendency to fly in flocks may exacerbate their impact. In the United States, the Canada goose is the second-most damaging bird strike to airplanes, with the most damaging being turkey vultures.^[72] Canada geese can cause fatal crashes when they strike an aircraft's engine. The FAA has reported 1,772 known civil aircraft strikes within the United States between 1990–2018.^[73] The total cost of these bird strikes to general and commercial aviation has been reported to exceed $130 million.^[74]

maybe we can have a discussion about intentionality and "wanting" to kill everyone.  but that would probably be projection on our part, because we shouldn't assume there was any point to klinker's comment other than to simply post a diagram.

cramer said:

 Don't slip on their their  poop and crack your skull open. 

That wouldn’t fill them with remorse? Maybe not in my case, but not in anyone’s? For Pete’s sake, they’re Canadian.

this looks like clear intentionality

Goose attacks man and his dogs

ml1 said:

this looks like clear intentionality

Goose attacks man and his dogs

 Make American Geese Great Again!

Don't feed the geese!

Let's not get too deep into a critique of the goose lifestyle.

Hearse feathers.

I am just glad that we are finally, at long last, openly discussing goose poop because, after all, isn't that what this thread has really been about all along?