Twitter is a Private Company
terp said:
drummerboy said:
terp said:
ml1 said:
sheesh, I only had to go back about a few days in this thread to find an example of a Musk tweet taking aim at trans people
How is that taking aim at trans people?
because he's endorsing a "documentary" that takes aim at trans people.
It's not that hard to understand.
I watched that film. It does not take aim at trans people.
ok
PVW said:
It's also unclear why someone who is a "Musk hater" would wish ill upon Tesla.
My reference to "Musk haters" goes back to you posting the article about Twitter's ad decline. I'm not singling out that post -- that was just the most recent example of what seem to me like numerous gleeful posts on this thread, chronicling Twitter's latest leg down. It just feels like Nelson Muntz from the Simpsons, with no purpose other than a thumb in Musk's eye.
So yes, if a person cheers Twitter's decline (even though that company still employs 1,300 workers, who presumably want the company to do well and want to keep their jobs), I don't think it's much of a stretch to think that person would also welcome a Tesla decline.
Smedley said:
My reference to "Musk haters" goes back to you posting the article about Twitter's ad decline. I'm not singling out that post -- that was just the most recent example of what seem to me like numerous gleeful posts on this thread, chronicling Twitter's latest leg down. It just feels like Nelson Muntz from the Simpsons, with no purpose other than a thumb in Musk's eye.
So yes, if a person cheers Twitter's decline (even though that company still employs 1,300 workers, who presumably want the company to do well and want to keep their jobs), I don't think it's much of a stretch to think that person would also welcome a Tesla decline.
In that case, I'm glad I wrote my last post and gave you a chance to correct some of your assumptions.
I blocked Musk, so I couldn't give two **** about him, but I think it's hilarious that people pay him money to flit around websites and message boards defending any posts that disparage him.
Smedley said:
So yes, if a person cheers Twitter's decline (even though that company still employs 1,300 workers, who presumably want the company to do well and want to keep their jobs), I don't think it's much of a stretch to think that person would also welcome a Tesla decline.
Outstanding sentence. Start with a false premise and finish with an unsupported conclusion.
nohero said:
Smedley said:
"I can't see how it's a good idea for any CEO of any company to purposely spend his time insulting a segment of the population."- I agree; not sure who you're arguing with here
"don't you think maybe he and his advisors are in agreement with the larger point about not alienating customers?" - yes, which I suspect is why he's been less jerky, and is part of the reason why both TSLA stock, and Musk's net favorability rating as per Yougov report, bottomed 5-6 months ago.
Beyond that I just think you have a broader definition of trolling and what's objectionable or insulting than does the average person.
Just today, Elon Musk has been indulging in full bore anti-trans posting. I guess he and others are of the opinion that's not objectionable or insulting to the average person.
please provide specifics of yesterday's "full bore anti-trans posting".
ridski said:
I blocked Musk, so I couldn't give two **** about him, but I think it's hilarious that people pay him money to flit around websites and message boards defending any posts that disparage him.
I think Musk is an odious human. But I never wished for Twitter to become a shitshow. I would have hoped that he'd have run it differently and it could have become something I'd like to participate in more than I used to. Instead, he's mucked around with it enough that I don't enjoy participating. The new content algorithms send me stuff than annoys me.
with regard to Tesla, I'd like to see them be successful too. But there are concerning aspects of that company too, that seem to be related to Musk's megalomania. Overhyping products, not admitting design flaws, etc. Not to mention that Tesla doesn't seem to respect their employees any more than Twitter does.
But if Tesla struggles with sales over the longer term, it won't likely be because people hate Musk personally. It will more likely be the cumulative effects of recalls, increased competition, and lack of innovation. I'd consider buying a Tesla if I was in the market for an EV, but not if they don't update the styling. When the Y and 3 were introduced, they were kind of cool looking, certainly compared to hybrids at the time, or a Bolt or Leaf. But now with new EVs coming out or coming soon from Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Hyundai, Ford, the Teslas are starting to look tired in comparison IMHO.
Smedley said:
nohero said:
Just today, Elon Musk has been indulging in full bore anti-trans posting. I guess he and others are of the opinion that's not objectionable or insulting to the average person.
please provide specifics of yesterday's "full bore anti-trans posting".
Elon Musk’s postings on Twitter aren’t hard to find. Nohero’s opinion of them seems pretty clear. Why not see them for yourself and then get back to the discussion if you think nohero was off base?
DaveSchmidt said:
Smedley said:
nohero said:
Just today, Elon Musk has been indulging in full bore anti-trans posting. I guess he and others are of the opinion that's not objectionable or insulting to the average person.
please provide specifics of yesterday's "full bore anti-trans posting".
Elon Musk’s postings on Twitter aren’t hard to find. Nohero’s opinion of them seems pretty clear. Why not see them for yourself and then get back to the discussion if you think nohero was off base?
Thanks for the tip. I actually did look before I posted (great minds think alike) and I didn't see anything that I would characterize as "full-bore anti-trans posting." As Nohero regularly posts tweets, I thought I'd ask what specifically he's referring to. But perhaps that's too much to ask.
Smedley said:
Thanks for the tip. I actually did look before I posted (great minds think alike) and I didn't see anything that I would characterize as "full-bore anti-trans posting." As Nohero regularly posts tweets, I thought I'd ask what specifically he's referring to.
Then we have different opinions of what may be objectionable or insulting.
nohero said:
Smedley said:
Thanks for the tip. I actually did look before I posted (great minds think alike) and I didn't see anything that I would characterize as "full-bore anti-trans posting." As Nohero regularly posts tweets, I thought I'd ask what specifically he's referring to.
Then we have different opinions of what may be objectionable or insulting.
That appears to sum it up.
Fine. Nothing like pinning an "unsupported conclusion" on me and then providing zero support for your own pretty strident and specific charge. As they say, every accusation is a confession.
nohero said:
Smedley said:
Thanks for the tip. I actually did look before I posted (great minds think alike) and I didn't see anything that I would characterize as "full-bore anti-trans posting." As Nohero regularly posts tweets, I thought I'd ask what specifically he's referring to.
Then we have different opinions of what may be objectionable or insulting.
I didn't want to give Musk any more eyeballs on his tweets, but I was curious so I did. He went full bore anti-trans by promoting other people's tweets. So if a person looked only at Musk's own original tweets, there wasn't much there yesterday. But he shared some pretty nasty stuff from others.
Smedley said:
Fine. Nothing like pinning an "unsupported conclusion" on me and then providing zero support for your own pretty strident and specific charge. As they say, every accusation is a confession.
The "unsupported conclusion" was that someone who "cheered Twitter's decline" would also "welcome a Tesla decline."
Musk likes to promote this guy on Twitter.
Transphobe of the Year: Matt Walsh
If someone thinks this stuff isn't anti-trans, yeah we're going to disagree.
ml1 said:
Musk likes to promote this guy on Twitter.
Transphobe of the Year: Matt Walsh
If someone thinks this stuff isn't anti-trans, yeah we're going to disagree.
guilty by association…
ml1 said:
nohero said:
Smedley said:
Thanks for the tip. I actually did look before I posted (great minds think alike) and I didn't see anything that I would characterize as "full-bore anti-trans posting." As Nohero regularly posts tweets, I thought I'd ask what specifically he's referring to.
Then we have different opinions of what may be objectionable or insulting.
I didn't want to give Musk any more eyeballs on his tweets, but I was curious so I did. He went full bore anti-trans by promoting other people's tweets. So if a person looked only at Musk's own original tweets, there wasn't much there yesterday. But he shared some pretty nasty stuff from others.
The one I see that I guess you're referring to is the thread about the alleged trans healthcare scam, where the guy is saying insurance companies and healthcare providers are approving surgeries fraudulently. I don't follow this issue closely but I don't see how that's "pretty nasty stuff" , or "full bore anti-trans". I assume there are protocols in place for people getting trans surgery, that are meant to minimize the chance of someone doing something permanent that they'll regret later. If insurance cos or hc providers might be short-cutting this process in the interest of profit, isn't it worth discussing rather than just reflexively pinning an anti-trans label on it and cancelling it?
Maybe you can explain how that thread is "full bore anti-trans" and "pretty nasty stuff".
ml1 said:
I think Musk is an odious human. But I never wished for Twitter to become a shitshow
...
But if Tesla struggles with sales over the longer term, it won't likely be because people hate Musk personally.
So, you're saying you don't subscribe to the "Just World Fallacy"?
Me neither, though given the assumptions Paul and Smedley keep projecting onto critics of Musk, it seems they might.
Smedley said:
ml1 said:
nohero said:
Smedley said:
Thanks for the tip. I actually did look before I posted (great minds think alike) and I didn't see anything that I would characterize as "full-bore anti-trans posting." As Nohero regularly posts tweets, I thought I'd ask what specifically he's referring to.
Then we have different opinions of what may be objectionable or insulting.
I didn't want to give Musk any more eyeballs on his tweets, but I was curious so I did. He went full bore anti-trans by promoting other people's tweets. So if a person looked only at Musk's own original tweets, there wasn't much there yesterday. But he shared some pretty nasty stuff from others.
The one I see that I guess you're referring to is the thread about the alleged trans healthcare scam, where the guy is saying insurance companies and healthcare providers are approving surgeries fraudulently. I don't follow this issue closely but I don't see how that's "pretty nasty stuff" , or "full bore anti-trans". I assume there are protocols in place for people getting trans surgery, that are meant to minimize the chance of someone doing something permanent that they'll regret later. If insurance cos or hc providers might be short-cutting this process in the interest of profit, isn't it worth discussing rather than just reflexively pinning an anti-trans label on it and cancelling it?
Maybe you can explain how that thread is "full bore anti-trans" and "pretty nasty stuff".
the guy writing about that "scam" has a history of promoting false information about gender-affirming care. The chances of anything he's writing being true are slim.
doesn't your BS detector go off when someone claims a guy can have his testicles removed in 22 minutes?
if you read up on Matt Walsh, you'll understand why his stuff is pretty nasty.
and for the record, suggesting someone not promote this stuff isn't "canceling" it. It's still out there for people to find. There's no obligation for Elon Musk or anyone else to give it a bigger platform though.
ml1 said:
the guy writing about that "scam" has a history of promoting false information about gender-affirming care. The chances of anything he's writing being true are slim.
doesn't your BS detector go off when someone claims a guy can have his testicles removed in 22 minutes?
if you read up on Matt Walsh, you'll understand why his stuff is pretty nasty.
You suggest that he learn something before forming his opinion? Radical.
nohero said:
ml1 said:
the guy writing about that "scam" has a history of promoting false information about gender-affirming care. The chances of anything he's writing being true are slim.
doesn't your BS detector go off when someone claims a guy can have his testicles removed in 22 minutes?
if you read up on Matt Walsh, you'll understand why his stuff is pretty nasty.
You suggest that he learn something before forming his opinion? Radical.
I was thinking he might just read the story I linked to. But I guess not.
or did read it, and thinks Matt Walsh is an unbiased, responsible journalist?
Jaytee said:
ml1 said:
Musk likes to promote this guy on Twitter.
Transphobe of the Year: Matt Walsh
If someone thinks this stuff isn't anti-trans, yeah we're going to disagree.
guilty by association…
Writing to memorialize the fact that you are embracing the concept of "guilty by association." Additionally, Jaytee, please confirm that a person can be "guilty by association" merely by associating with the "bad" person(s).
RealityForAll said:
Writing to memorialize the fact that you are embracing the concept of "guilty by association." Additionally, Jaytee, please confirm that a person can be "guilty by association" merely by associating with the "bad" person(s).
ml1 said:
Smedley said:
ml1 said:
nohero said:
Smedley said:
Thanks for the tip. I actually did look before I posted (great minds think alike) and I didn't see anything that I would characterize as "full-bore anti-trans posting." As Nohero regularly posts tweets, I thought I'd ask what specifically he's referring to.
Then we have different opinions of what may be objectionable or insulting.
I didn't want to give Musk any more eyeballs on his tweets, but I was curious so I did. He went full bore anti-trans by promoting other people's tweets. So if a person looked only at Musk's own original tweets, there wasn't much there yesterday. But he shared some pretty nasty stuff from others.
The one I see that I guess you're referring to is the thread about the alleged trans healthcare scam, where the guy is saying insurance companies and healthcare providers are approving surgeries fraudulently. I don't follow this issue closely but I don't see how that's "pretty nasty stuff" , or "full bore anti-trans". I assume there are protocols in place for people getting trans surgery, that are meant to minimize the chance of someone doing something permanent that they'll regret later. If insurance cos or hc providers might be short-cutting this process in the interest of profit, isn't it worth discussing rather than just reflexively pinning an anti-trans label on it and cancelling it?
Maybe you can explain how that thread is "full bore anti-trans" and "pretty nasty stuff".
the guy writing about that "scam" has a history of promoting false information about gender-affirming care. The chances of anything he's writing being true are slim.
doesn't your BS detector go off when someone claims a guy can have his testicles removed in 22 minutes?
if you read up on Matt Walsh, you'll understand why his stuff is pretty nasty.
and for the record, suggesting someone not promote this stuff isn't "canceling" it. It's still out there for people to find. There's no obligation for Elon Musk or anyone else to give it a bigger platform though.
I don't know if the reporting of the thread is legit - it seems like it might be. As to your nuts gone in 22 mins question, yes that's pretty incredible, however I think it's just as possible that it might be true as it might be false. If you believe it's 100% BS on the tweeter's part just bc it's an incredible number, then I think you're naive in how apparently you think it's beyond for-profit enterprises to do incredibly unscrupulous things to make a profit.
So I don't think the thread that Musk replied to is even anti-trans, let alone full-bore anti trans. When I hear full bore anti-trans I thought I'd see Musk tweeting about denying rights to trans people, or kicking trans people off twitter.
As for Walsh himself, I had never heard of him before today, and yes he does look like a right wing nut, the kind Musk too often associates himself with. But IMO this goes to the heart of cancel culture - just because a blogger / media figure has written and said loathsome things in the past, does that mean that person is incapable of producing non-loathsome, worthwhile content?
In reality, if someone is agreeing with someone who is spreading bad things like lies and disinformation.. go check the Russian threads for some examples. Tucker Carlson thinks zelensky looks like a rat… in my reality, not yours, Tucker is a Putin stooge…. But that’s my reality, not yours, not all of us. The muskrat is the one spreading lies and disinformation…that’s reality for you.
ridski said:
RealityForAll said:
Writing to memorialize the fact that you are embracing the concept of "guilty by association." Additionally, Jaytee, please confirm that a person can be "guilty by association" merely by associating with the "bad" person(s).
For someone who doesn't give two **** about Musk, you're oddly interested in this thread about Musk.
Smedley said:
,,,But IMO this goes to the heart of cancel culture - just because a blogger / media figure has written and said loathsome things in the past, does that mean that person is incapable of producing non-loathsome, worthwhile content?
What it means is that if someone is a proven lying sack of ****, like Walsh, that you can never assume that any claim they make is true. You have to check. Musk doesn't check.
Smedley said:
As for Walsh himself, I had never heard of him before today, ...
You may want to find out more before judging others' reactions to Musk's promotion of him.
nohero said:
Smedley said:
As for Walsh himself, I had never heard of him before today, ...
You may want to find out more before judging others' reactions to Musk's promotion of him.
I already acknowledged he looks like a right wing nut, but that in itself doesn't negate the twitter thread that Musk responded to.
What specifically about the content of the thread is full bore anti-trans to you? (I ask, holding on to the slimmest of hopes that I will get an answer)
I could have. And it's not a whinge. It's an observation.
And my other observation is that I'm still too stupid to avoid getting into these exchanges.