Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine

tjohn said:
In any case, there is no world in which Ukraine gets Crimea back.  The Crimea was never historically part of Ukraine anyway.

That's probably true. About as likely as the Mesilla Valley reverting to Mexico.


Haven't been on this thread in a while.  Imagine my shock as I read through it and dave is doing work.  He's got this one right.


terp said:

Haven't been on this thread in a while.  Imagine my shock as I read through it and dave is doing work.  He's got this one right.

I'll bite.  I know what Dave's posts are about, but not sure what the meaning of "got this one right" is.

What's the specific thing about the Russia/Ukraine situation that's the "right" way to view it?


I'm guessing he means the clip where the reporter is pushing back on the WH's intelligence claims.


nohero said:

terp said:

Haven't been on this thread in a while.  Imagine my shock as I read through it and dave is doing work.  He's got this one right.

I'll bite.  I know what Dave's posts are about, but not sure what the meaning of "got this one right" is.

What's the specific thing about the Russia/Ukraine situation that's the "right" way to view it?

Terp's thinking is that countries should be free to settle territorial disputes at gunpoint.  Now, I realize that Mexico agreed to give us about 1/3 of of the total area of the lower 48 at gunpoint, but times have changed and what was appropriate 150 years ago is no longer appropriate.


I wonder if Terp -liked it when the reporter called out Vlad for proof of Russian genocide in Ukraine?  Oh wait, that could never happen.

I think we out-Putin'd Putin this round.  If he does nothing - he can keep blaming the West for drumming up fake news and feel like a winner.


jamie said:


I think we out-Putin'd Putin this round.  If he does nothing - he can keep blaming the West for drumming up fake news and feel like a winner.

"In a fiery statement on Tuesday, Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova poured scorn on weeks of reports and claims from US and European officials that Moscow’s armed forces could be just hours away from launching a strike against its neighbor."

“15 February 2022 will go down in history as the day Western war propaganda failed,” she wrote. According to her, the West has been “shamed and destroyed without firing a single shot.”

https://www.rt.com/russia/549410-western-war-propaganda-failed/


Russia accusing the NATO countries of propaganda seems a cheap price to pay to avoid Ukraine being invaded. So far, seems like things are working out ok?


Maybe Putin will declare that he proved his point about the West, and send his troops home.

The West should respond, "Whatever, dude. See ya'."


nohero said:

Maybe Putin will declare that he proved his point about the West, and send his troops home.

The West should respond, "Whatever, dude. See ya'."

I think Putin is playing to domestic chauvinism.  This being the case, I think he is happy enough to keep relations with the West a bit tense.

I would like to see the NATO countries start to work to reduce natural gas consumption (global warming demands this, anyway).  Until they don't need Russian fossil fuels, this continues.


tjohn said:

nohero said:

terp said:

Haven't been on this thread in a while.  Imagine my shock as I read through it and dave is doing work.  He's got this one right.

I'll bite.  I know what Dave's posts are about, but not sure what the meaning of "got this one right" is.

What's the specific thing about the Russia/Ukraine situation that's the "right" way to view it?

Terp's thinking is that countries should be free to settle territorial disputes at gunpoint.  Now, I realize that Mexico agreed to give us about 1/3 of of the total area of the lower 48 at gunpoint, but times have changed and what was appropriate 150 years ago is no longer appropriate.

It is amazing to me that an American could think these thoughts. 


PVW said:

Russia accusing the NATO countries of propaganda seems a cheap price to pay to avoid Ukraine being invaded. So far, seems like things are working out ok?


terp said:

It is amazing to me that an American could think these thoughts. 

maybe it’s because you think that a real American is a trump supporter? Like Candace Owens? Like Mitch McConnell? You guys who listen to the right wingnuts preaching their propaganda every minute of every day, do eventually sound like parrots. Cults have a tendency to do that. Maybe it’s time to change all the names of places in the southwestern parts of the country to English names, just rewrite the history books further so we won’t have future Americans thinking these thoughts… I’m all for changing Florida to Floriduh..


terp said:

tjohn said:

Terp's thinking is that countries should be free to settle territorial disputes at gunpoint.  Now, I realize that Mexico agreed to give us about 1/3 of of the total area of the lower 48 at gunpoint, but times have changed and what was appropriate 150 years ago is no longer appropriate.

It is amazing to me that an American could think these thoughts. 

Not really. 


terp said:

PVW said:

Russia accusing the NATO countries of propaganda seems a cheap price to pay to avoid Ukraine being invaded. So far, seems like things are working out ok?

You're going to have to provide some background for what that "photo op" was not just the screen shots. Many of us aren't up on all of the "Putin's bad, but we're worse" talking points.


nohero said:

terp said:

tjohn said:

Terp's thinking is that countries should be free to settle territorial disputes at gunpoint.  Now, I realize that Mexico agreed to give us about 1/3 of of the total area of the lower 48 at gunpoint, but times have changed and what was appropriate 150 years ago is no longer appropriate.

It is amazing to me that an American could think these thoughts. 

Not really. 

I missed something, I guess. Why might tjohn's statement be considered "amazing".

Oh wait - I get it. America does this all the time, so who are we talk?

Did I get it?


Yeah, I don't get terp's response. I post that its good Ukraine won't be invaded and he.. disagrees?  Or something?


nohero said:

You're going to have to provide some background for what that "photo op" was not just the screen shots.

The tweets appear to be a righteous effort to place tribalism (neo-Nazis, stay home) above the defense needs of a country on the brink of invasion.


So Terp seems to think we should have no comment about Putin's intentions to make Ukraine a vassal state like Belarus?

What about the Baltic States?

Perhaps we should stand by while he resurrects the Warsaw Pact.


Jaytee said:

maybe it’s because you think that a real American is a trump supporter? Like Candace Owens? Like Mitch McConnell? You guys who listen to the right wingnuts preaching their propaganda every minute of every day, do eventually sound like parrots. Cults have a tendency to do that. Maybe it’s time to change all the names of places in the southwestern parts of the country to English names, just rewrite the history books further so we won’t have future Americans thinking these thoughts… I’m all for changing Florida to Floriduh..

You might want to check up on who you're responding to in this case, Jaytee.


ridski said:

You might want to check up on who you're responding to in this case, Jaytee.

terp 

Nytimes: Is sleepy Joe making Vladimir Putin blink?…


Jaytee said:

ridski said:

You might want to check up on who you're responding to in this case, Jaytee.

terp 

Nytimes: Is sleepy Joe making Vladimir Putin blink?…

Are you asking me to go through this thread for this headline quoted by *checks notes* Terp as definitive of Terp’s opinion on the US’ aggressive involvement in other countries business?


Does anyone what is going to be on the menu when the Gabbard-Putin-Dore-Suirovell-Carlson-Hannity-Sanders-Trump-Jordan-Greenwald Alliance celebrates Uncle Vladi's victory over Ukraine?


tjohn said:

So Terp seems to think we should have no comment about Putin's intentions to make Ukraine a vassal state like Belarus?

What about the Baltic States?

Perhaps we should stand by while he resurrects the Warsaw Pact.

Do you really think this is going to happen?  If so, why?  It doesn't strike me as a plausible scenario.  What historical precedent is there for Putin to do this?


sbenois said:

Does anyone what is going to be on the menu when the Gabbard-Putin-Dore-Suirovell-Carlson-Hannity-Sanders-Trump-Jordan-Greenwald Alliance celebrates Uncle Vladi's victory over Ukraine?

Chicken Kiev?


PVW said:

Yeah, I don't get terp's response. I post that its good Ukraine won't be invaded and he.. disagrees?  Or something?

No, it was an example of the "NATO propoganda".  We have been meddling over there for years.  I'm not sure what the win is.


DaveSchmidt said:

nohero said:

You're going to have to provide some background for what that "photo op" was not just the screen shots.

The tweets appear to be a righteous effort to place tribalism (neo-Nazis, stay home) above the defense needs of a country on the brink of invasion.

Are they on the brink of invasion?  The funny thing is that we seem more convinced than anyone that this is true.  Even the Ukranian government doesn't seem convinced.

I get the feeling Putins invasion plans are about as valid as Saddams mobile chemical weapon labs.


drummerboy said:

nohero said:

terp said:

tjohn said:

Terp's thinking is that countries should be free to settle territorial disputes at gunpoint.  Now, I realize that Mexico agreed to give us about 1/3 of of the total area of the lower 48 at gunpoint, but times have changed and what was appropriate 150 years ago is no longer appropriate.

It is amazing to me that an American could think these thoughts. 

Not really. 

I missed something, I guess. Why might tjohn's statement be considered "amazing".

Oh wait - I get it. America does this all the time, so who are we talk?

Did I get it?

Yes.  And we keep falling for the same lies as our government beats the war drums.  As President Bush once said "Fool me once....um fool you...eh.  I WON'T BE FOOLED AGAIN!"


Putin wants to be in Kyiv about as much as Biden wants to be in Kabul.


This is a manufactured crisis.


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