Should kid at CHS with toy gun have criminal charges filed against him?

http://villagegreennj.com/schools-kids/maplewood-police-chs-9th-grader-charged-assault-terroristic-threats/

Eek.

It sounds like he threatened another boy with the gun, which looked very real. But the wording is so strange it's almost impossible to get much out of that article. And no one knows what has become of the boy now, right? Presumably he was released to his parents or bailed out by them?

What was unclear about what he was charged with and why?  Seems pretty straightforward.

[delete me]

ctrzaska said:

What was unclear about what he was charged with and why?  Seems pretty straightforward.

What is unclear is what he did to earn those charges. We have no idea why the other boy was afraid, what was said, etc.

I know, Peggy, but find it shocking that terrorism charges will be filed against this kid.

Making terroristic threats is a third-degree crime. It is not a terrorism charge.

DaveSchmidt said:

Making terroristic threats is a third-degree crime. It is not a terrorism charge.

I think this can't be overstated. He's not being charged with terrorism. 

ml1 said:

I understand that this is the internet, where people don't typically wait for info before expressing an opinion.  But I guess what I don't get is why people immediately jump to the conclusion that the school district is hell bent on destroying a kid's life by overcharging him with criminal complaints.  "Showing someone a toy gun" can be anything from "hey, look at this cool toy" to brandishing a toy that looks exactly like a real weapon to terrorize or rob someone.  So until we know more about what really took place, how do we know whether or not the charges are appropriate?

Its not the school district. Its either the police or the prosecutor's office that does the charging. 

In this day and age, the school administrators are in the enviable position of being absolved of the handling of these types of issues. In our brave new world, they simply foist the issue onto outside authority. They no longer have the onerous task of dealing with this internally. Avoiding the use of their disciplinary and guidance systems and minimizing having to deal with the parents.

One charge is "Possession of an imitation firearm." Another is "Possession of a weapon in an educational institution."  Can a toy gun, the so-called imitation firearm be also a weapon? When I was young, we called a toy gun a toy gun. Good to know its now considered an imitation firearm. All parents should inculcate the new legal lingo into their children's minds.

Aggravated assault? Was someone really assaulted or just scared? I don't remember medical aid being summoned.

And the other charges. Looks like the kitchen sink and whatever else they can find was thrown at the kid, hoping something sticks.

If the kid really did bring in the gun with the intent of having the victim believe its real and actually threatening the victim with this "weapon" then there is a serious issue. An issue that may best be resolved using guidance and psychological means instead of our criminal statutes.

Pointing a gun at someone is aggravated assault. 

I'm not sure what you'd like the school to do in a situation like this, decide on a case-by-case base whether to refer alleged criminal conduct to the police? I think in this day and age, that opens things up to more potential problems and lawsuits.

Under a system like that, if the school chose internal discipline rather than referral to the police, what's to stop the victim's parents from filing charges?

Personally, I prefer my educators to be focused on education, not interpretation and application of law.  I'm funny like that.  

assuming the kid has no priors he can get an accelerated rehabilitation or the like.  don;t saddle the kid with a record for something like this.  

Am I wrong, or are not juvenile offenders still protected when it comes to a criminal record? I thought those records were always sealed?

Why the hand wringing? The student did not bring a toy gun or water pistol to school. He brought an imitation weapon that had had the imitation indicating orange tip removed so as to make the item appear to be genuine. He then showed the weapon to a group of students and ultimately another individual who felt threatened - a pretty reasonable feeling to have given the circumstances. So what if the offending individual receives a juvenile record? Maybe, just maybe it will prompt someone in his life to take some responsibility for seeing that he is raised to understand that carrying a modified, imitation weapon around is likely to lead to a confrontation with the police - that in all likelihood will not end well.

In the other thread on this topic "Columbia High School lockdown" Jude provides a very clear explanation on why this incident is being handled by the police and not the school.  To summarize, the administration was told a student had a weapon (not a fake weapon) so they followed procedure (and used common sense) by bringing in the police.  The school cannot reclaim jurisdiction now.

PeggyC said:

Am I wrong, or are not juvenile offenders still protected when it comes to a criminal record? I thought those records were always sealed?

Not really. The record is sealed and usually expunged. But the arrest remains in the public database. So his stunt may screw his life career.

That happens all the time when we see some newsworthy arrest. The newspapers will then cite a prior arrests even when there is no conviction or expungement.

There needs to be a zero tolerance policy and hopefully this incident will deter other students from doing this or something like this.

lhmirman said:

There needs to be a zero tolerance policy and hopefully this incident will deter other students from doing this or something like this.

I started to post something along these lines but deleted it. Given all the awful incidents that have occurred recently and in the past decade or so, in schools and elsewhere, I don't think this was an overreaction. I'm sorry if the charges give him a black mark, but he and his parents should have done some much more evolved thinking before this "toy" ever made its way first into his home and then into his school.

.

Zero tolerance has been proven to be a disaster, and has shattered the lives of many. It springs from an uncreative mind and society, bent on punishment at all costs. And, no, it is not a deterrent.

Peggyc, Thank goodness you and your family have reached such a level of evolution. You should be proud! Maybe you could go teach and lecture this family about how you reached such enlightment.

lhmirman said:

There needs to be a zero tolerance policy and hopefully this incident will deter other students from doing this or something like this.

The simplistic black and white zero tolerance policies that throw the book usual response is one reason American society is fraying at the edges. One reason where per capita we are the most heavily policed and number in prison society in the industrial world. 

I should have clarified that I don't believe zero tolerance can work; however, I agree with the bulk of the message I quoted above. A slap on the wrist and counseling would not be adequate if the boy went in there with a gun that looked extremely real and used it to scare the pants off other kids. That kind of thing is not anything that people should turn a blind eye to under current circumstances. People are dying on a regular basis because of the proliferation of guns in our society, including kids. I would be very surprised if school kids aren't living in a heightened state of alarm from the news they hear every day. 

There seem to be VERY odd definitions of "zero-tolerance" being hashed about.  Either that, or I missed the part about where they tossed away the key.

BG9 said:

PeggyC said:

Am I wrong, or are not juvenile offenders still protected when it comes to a criminal record? I thought those records were always sealed?

Not really. The record is sealed and usually expunged. But the arrest remains in the public database. So his stunt may screw his life career.

That happens all the time when we see some newsworthy arrest. The newspapers will then cite a prior arrests even when there is no conviction or expungement.

How is a record expunged; yet remain in a public database?

I am presuming, for the moment, that by public database, you meant that the information would only be accessible by authorized law enforcement officials, and not the general public.

Thanks for any help in better understanding this matter.

TomR

sarahzm said:

Regarding the OP.   We don't know how "minor" this infraction was.  We don't know what he did with the toy gun or what his intentions were.   We don't know if he has a history of issues with the law.   Since he is only 15 he is a juvenile and his arrest record will be expunged when he turns 18.    

I think you have that one wrong.  Over the years I have expunged many juvenile records.  Do you have a citation or other authority for your assertion that juvenile records are automatically expunged in NJ?

I think people are confusing "expunged" with "sealed."

The records are sealed, not expunged, when the child reaches adulthood.