Sanders is OUT!
STANV said:
There are other contests on the ballots in most states and now that Biden is the only one left enough will vote for him to give him a large majority of delegates.
But if Bernie and his delegates are still on the ballot you can vote for them hoping that more "progressive" delegates get to attend the convention and perhaps influence the platform.
I wonder if the other contests will be a strong enough motivator. I guess it will depend on the course the pandemic takes. Currently only 6% of the country has been tested. NY and NJ are in only 8 weeks or so.
nohero said:
I'm thinking Senator Harris.
I like that pick. I did think that bringing Warren on board might create enthusiasm among Progressives.
It would be an interesting VP debate. Harris is all things tough and Pence wears that practiced pious facade. I would actually prefer to see her debate Trump. Maybe they would allow Biden to "phone a friend."
ridski said:
He had a cat’s chance in hell of beating Trump, and you know it. He couldn’t even beat the DNC. Twice.
The general is different than the primary. Trump would be easier to beat than the whole Democratic establishment and media working together to take you down. Sanders had a huge share of he people under 50. That was something like 70%. The older voters who went for Biden are "Any Blue will Do" folks so they would have voted for Sanders in the general. Biden will have the anywho folks but he will lose as at least some of the under 50's and the crossover from Trump types, such as Joe Rogan supporters.
The thought is he will make it up by getting moderate Republicans to switch--which is what they said Hillary would do and Biden is not even doing as well as HIllary did at this point.
Also, historically the only time an incumbent president has been beaten is with an insurgent candidate who offers a radically different platform. Does anyone even know a policy that Biden even has? He's just running on some fake nostalgia vibes and MSM propaganda. He's so bad that even the people that voted for him are now drooling over the odious Andrew Cuomo.
nan said:
Also, historically the only time an incumbent president has been beaten is with an insurgent candidate who offers a radically different platform.
I had not heard that take on the 1992 Presidential election.
Morganna said:
nohero said:
I'm thinking Senator Harris.
I like that pick. I did think that bringing Warren on board might create enthusiasm among Progressives.
It would be an interesting VP debate. Harris is all things tough and Pence wears that practiced pious facade. I would actually prefer to see her debate Trump. Maybe they would allow Biden to "phone a friend."
We should not be running a nominee who gets comments like this from standard issue establishment Democrats. Not a good sign.
nan said:
We should not be running a nominee who gets comments like this from standard issue establishment Democrats. Not a good sign.
Ms. Nan, if you're not voting for the Democratic nominee (as you've indicated), then this comment is trolling.
nohero said:
I had not heard that take on the 1992 Presidential election.
Clinton offered a different and suddenly exciting approach than the Democrats previously. He was the first true neoliberal Democrat, as described by Thomas Frank in his book "Listen Liberal!' as a "New Democrat."
He had a new strategy that energized people at the time. I was a big Bill Clinton fan, which gives me hope that maybe someday even you can change. How does Biden energize people and get them to turn out for him?
This is from this article:
American History for Truthdiggers: Bill Clinton, the 'New Democrat'
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/american-history-for-truthdiggers-bill-clinton-the-new-democrat/
Clinton was truly a new breed of Democrat. More interested in winning than liberal dogma, he read the tea leaves of the “Reagan Revolution” and decided to undercut his conservative opponents by taking right-facing positions. Did he really believe that such once-Republican policies were in the nation’s best interest? Or did he just do what was necessary to win? The question will undoubtedly be argued forever. What’s certain is Clinton did not occupy the liberal ground once traveled by George McGovern, or even Jimmy Carter. He was a corporate Democrat, one who deftly convinced all parties in the waning Democratic coalition that he was “on their side,” while often selling them out soon afterward. This went for blacks, Hispanics, gays, union workers and the very poor. Clinton even spoke differently depending on his audience, managing, despite his inconsistent policies, to win the adoration of many of those he would abandon once in the White House.
nohero said:
nan said:
We should not be running a nominee who gets comments like this from standard issue establishment Democrats. Not a good sign.
Ms. Nan, if you're not voting for the Democratic nominee (as you've indicated), then this comment is trolling.
No, trolls just say meaningless personal attacks to be mean--like sbenois. This is not a personal attack. It's an observation about how people seem to be thinking. I dont' think Morgana is unique in her expressed view. Biden was pushed as the front runner by the media and Democratic Establishment for one reason: he is supposed to be the one who can beat Trump. His wife even made an ad saying that even if you like the other guy's healthcare plan you should vote for her husband because he can beat Trump.
Looks like some of you, at least, have some doubts about that. How about you? Are you confident that Biden can beat Trump? Can you answer without mentioning somehow saying that it will be the fault of Bernie supporters if he can't?
nan said:
No, trolls just say meaningless personal attacks to be mean--like sbenois. This is not a personal attack. It's an observation about how people seem to be thinking. I dont' think Morgana is unique in her expressed view. Biden was pushed as the front runner by the media and Democratic Establishment for one reason: he is supposed to be the one who can beat Trump. His wife even made an ad saying that even if you like the other guy's healthcare plan you should vote for her husband because he can beat Trump.
Looks like some of you, at least, have some doubts about that. How about you? Are you confident that Biden can beat Trump? Can you answer without mentioning somehow saying that it will be the fault of Bernie supporters if he can't?
I think Biden can beat Trump, which is why Trump went out of his way to collect dirt on Biden. I think Bernie would have had no chance in hell to beat Trump, which is why Trump welcomed him as opponent.
nan said:
Also, historically the only time an incumbent president has been beaten is with an insurgent candidate who offers a radically different platform.
that's a ridiculous and ahistorical assertion.
nan said:
Looks like some of you, at least, have some doubts about that. How about you? Are you confident that Biden can beat Trump? Can you answer without mentioning somehow saying that it will be the fault of Bernie supporters if he can't?
This is irrelevant.
The die is cast. The needed focus is to ensure a Biden win. Agonizing, second guessing, losing focus is defeatist.
ml1 said:
So now we have to count on people being revved up to beat Trump, no matter who the Democratic nominee is. Maybe that will be enough.
cc: Rachel Bitecofer
basil said:
I think Biden can beat Trump, which is why Trump went out of his way to collect dirt on Biden. I think Bernie would have had no chance in hell to beat Trump, which is why Trump welcomed him as opponent.
Telling this to nan is like beating your head against a wall. She’s got to be the most rigid person on MOL these days. One day she will just crack.
Trump knows Biden is a formidable opponent, why else would he have Giuliani hanging out in Kiev so much? They’re fishing for a corrupt politician to offer a bribe to, to come up with some dirt on Hunter. This election will be the nastiest in recent history I think. But Trump is toast. Landslide.
noam states the obvious
Noam Chomsky tells me on @ajupfront that leftists who didn't vote for Clinton to block Trump made a "bad mistake":pic.twitter.com/L3fr4zoKsI
nan said:
nohero said:
nan said:
We should not be running a nominee who gets comments like this from standard issue establishment Democrats. Not a good sign.
Ms. Nan, if you're not voting for the Democratic nominee (as you've indicated), then this comment is trolling.
No, trolls just say meaningless personal attacks to be mean--like sbenois. This is not a personal attack. It's an observation about how people seem to be thinking. I dont' think Morgana is unique in her expressed view. Biden was pushed as the front runner by the media and Democratic Establishment for one reason: he is supposed to be the one who can beat Trump. His wife even made an ad saying that even if you like the other guy's healthcare plan you should vote for her husband because he can beat Trump.
Looks like some of you, at least, have some doubts about that. How about you? Are you confident that Biden can beat Trump? Can you answer without mentioning somehow saying that it will be the fault of Bernie supporters if he can't?
Tough. You've earned it. You have posted ******** for 4+ years. No one is going to beg you for your vote. And if you are stupid enough to vote for anyone but Biden then you have no right whatsoever to complain about anything for the next 4 years.
drummerboy said:
that's a ridiculous and ahistorical assertion.
OK, give me an example, or several examples since you think it has no merit. It's difficult to even find examples of incumbent presidents losing, never mind them losing to someone who offers the status quo.
BG9 said:
This is irrelevant.
The die is cast. The needed focus is to ensure a Biden win. Agonizing, second guessing, losing focus is defeatist.
How are you going to ensure a Biden win? He has a 24% excitability rating, compared with Trump's 50% rating. Obviously you need to rev up the juice on Joe. How will that happen?
nan said:
How are you going to ensure a Biden win? He has a 24% excitability rating, compared with Trump's 50% rating. Obviously you need to rev up the juice on Joe. How will that happen?
where are you getting these numbers?
drummerboy said:
noam states the obvious
Did not hear him say the same about Biden and I heard a recent interview with him.
jamie said:
where are you getting these numbers?
sbenois said:
Tough. You've earned it. You have posted ******** for 4+ years. No one is going to beg you for your vote. And if you are stupid enough to vote for anyone but Biden then you have no right whatsoever to complain about anything for the next 4 years.
You have posted troll comments for 4+ years. You think politicians should automatically get votes without having to offer anything. You were stupid enough to think that obviously corrupt candidates would actually care about ordinary people. Now you support a corrupt senile accused rapist who is a compulsive liar and has been on the wrong side of every issue and who will most likely lose to Trump. You will not blame this one on Bernie or his supporters. You own this one. You will take responsibility for all those tragic people who don't get healthcare because Joe Biden's donors need to make a profit and get their absence bonuses.
Jaytee said:
Telling this to nan is like beating your head against a wall. She’s got to be the most rigid person on MOL these days. One day she will just crack.
Trump knows Biden is a formidable opponent, why else would he have Giuliani hanging out in Kiev so much? They’re fishing for a corrupt politician to offer a bribe to, to come up with some dirt on Hunter. This election will be the nastiest in recent history I think. But Trump is toast. Landslide.
Trump is thrilled with Biden as a candidate. He was most worried about Bernie, and was caught on tape saying as much. They are putting together a huge negative ad campaign. Biden got off with very little negative press during the primary. The networks did not even mention his credible rape accuser. He won't be so protected in the general. I did see Biden has the David Brock machine working for him so that might help, since those are the group behind the "Stop Sanders" strategy.
nan said:
You have posted troll comments for 4+ years. You think politicians should automatically get votes without having to offer anything. You were stupid enough to think that obviously corrupt candidates would actually care about ordinary people. Now you support a corrupt senile accused rapist who is a compulsive liar and has been on the wrong side of every issue and who will most likely lose to Trump. You will not blame this one on Bernie or his supporters. You own this one. You will take responsibility for all those tragic people who don't get healthcare because Joe Biden's donors need to make a profit and get their absence bonuses.
who did he rape? that's a bold accusation.
nan said:
It's difficult to even find examples of incumbent presidents losing
Which should tell you that you are working off a very small data set, and which should lead you to question any conclusions attempted to be drawn from such a tiny sample -- especially definitive, sweeping conclusions.
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I'm thinking Senator Harris.