MSO OR BROOKLYN WEST

Jackson_Fusion said:

ridski said:

Jackson_Fusion said:
As far as the crime goes- cite your sources. Maplewood's overall crime rate is very low. Are there towns with lower rates? Yes! But the difference between Maplewood and Millburn isn't enough to make you reject Millburn out of hand (aww ***** that's right Millburn has a higher crime rate).
www.nj.com/news/bythenumbers/

Did someone complain about the crime rate here? I didn't. I said our friends left because they said Brooklyn was safer. I think you missed the irony in my post.

Ridski- I could hardly miss it- perhaps I should have been clearer that the comment was not directed at you.
I am, as I imagine most are, acutely aware of folks from outside the area who are interested in learning more about MAPSO reading these threads. The comments under the nj.com article are insane, and this board sometimes has the opportunity to point people in the right direction to data so people can make their own determination. My comment was offered in that spirit.
The two towns have their problems, but crime isn't anywhere near the top.

Oh I see. Sorry for the crossed wires. You looked at the comments at nj.com?

ridski said:

You looked at the comments at nj.com?

Yikes, I hope he took a shower afterward!

lol to you both- yes I did. If there were a way to short sell property I guess I could understand the repeated trolling by a handful of posters there. Truly odd.

mjh said:

ridski said:

You looked at the comments at nj.com?

Yikes, I hope he took a shower afterward!

Only if it's one of these showers.

I initially thought of MWSO as a sort of "Marin County East".

Oh god I read the comments. Why did I read the comments

hankzona said:

xavier67 said:

hankzona said:
Its somewhere between silly and stupid.

I disagree. It' somewhere between amusing and ridiculous.

sometimes silly is amusing and stupid is usually ridiculous to me. ">

It's such a fine line between stupid and clever.

FYI...

http://streeteasy.com/blog/price-gap-separating-manhattan-brooklyn-and-queens-getting-smaller/

-s.

It seems that the young adults moving to the city may not move out and into suburbs. Cities are becoming more livable lately.

Why do people dislike SOMa so much? Everytime South Orange or Maplewood is mentioned on nj.com people always talk badly about us. It doesn't even matter what the article is about

Ignorance and jealousy, for starters.

asdf

haters gonna hate

What SOMA does have in common with Brooklyn is that the folks here have a cosmopolitan attitude towards the world and each other. What it doesn't have in common is that Brooklynites seek out hipness as a status symbol, whereas SOMA folks are generally pretty down to earth and couldn't give a sh*t about keeping up with the Joneses, at least roundabout where I live (near the Clinton School).

What bothers me most about the Brooklyn West moniker is that it only refers to white, upper-middle-class Brooklyn (Brooklyn Heights, Carroll Gardens, Park Slope, Williamsburg) and not deep Brooklyn (Black, Latino, Russian, Arabic, Hasidic, etc). And when they compare it to SOMA, they're only referring to white upper-middle-class SOMA as well. So what I basically hear is white people talking to other white people about how it's good for white people. I mean I don't see them recruiting from Prospect Heights or Fort Green or Bed Stuy or Flatbush or Ocean Parkway or Brighton Beach or Bay Ridge or Sheepshead Bay or East New York or Far Rockaway).

I thought the same thing when I lived in Park Slope, and they referred to it as the Lower West Side.

While we are at this Brooklyn West, what about those signs that Maplewood is a "stigma-free" town. I guess it depends on which side of Springfield Avenue you live on, and now the sub-category of Burnett, which leaves the only section of Maplewood that has no choice of elementary schools. Seth Boyden has to "depend on the kindness of strangers" to integrate our school. It's bull*****.

noo2wood said:
What SOMA does have in common with Brooklyn is that the folks here have a cosmopolitan attitude towards the world and each other. What it doesn't have in common is that Brooklynites seek out hipness as a status symbol, whereas SOMA folks are generally pretty down to earth and couldn't give a sh*t about keeping up with the Joneses, at least roundabout where I live (near the Clinton School).

I don't know about that, I've met plenty of folks here who obviously care a great deal about keeping up with the Joneses, although they try very hard to make it seem like they don't...

I think it's the cosmopolitan attitude that is so irritating to the types that do most of the SOMa bashing on NJ.com... they don't understand it or recognize it on its merits, so they misinterpret it as smug superiority and hypocrisy...

noo2wood said:
What bothers me most about the Brooklyn West moniker is that it only refers to white, upper-middle-class Brooklyn (Brooklyn Heights, Carroll Gardens, Park Slope, Williamsburg) and not deep Brooklyn (Black, Latino, Russian, Arabic, Hasidic, etc). And when they compare it to SOMA, they're only referring to white upper-middle-class SOMA as well. So what I basically hear is white people talking to other white people about how it's good for white people. I mean I don't see them recruiting from Prospect Heights or Fort Green or Bed Stuy or Flatbush or Ocean Parkway or Brighton Beach or Bay Ridge or Sheepshead Bay or East New York or Far Rockaway).
I thought the same thing when I lived in Park Slope, and they referred to it as the Lower West Side.

Prospect Heights and Fort Greene have become largely white neighborhoods (I lived in Fort Greene for 15 years), and are definitely part of the "Brooklyn West" target audience. Bed Stuy is in the midst of a complete gentrification (the racial make-up of the neighborhood has changed radically over the past five years). Many of the other areas you mention--Bay Ridge, Sheepshead Bay--have always been mainly white. I don't disagree at all with your basic premise, just wanted to point out that many of the neighborhoods you mention have already gentrified.

All I know is if we become East Hampton West, I'm outta here.

getalife said:
While we are at this Brooklyn West, what about those signs that Maplewood is a "stigma-free" town. I guess it depends on which side of Springfield Avenue you live on, and now the sub-category of Burnett, which leaves the only section of Maplewood that has no choice of elementary schools. Seth Boyden has to "depend on the kindness of strangers" to integrate our school. It's bull*****.

The mysterious Stigma Free sign program has to do with mental health and nothing to do with race.

http://www.codeyfund.org/

relx,

Clearly it's been about 10 years since I lived in Park Slope, about 20 years since I went to school in Fort Greene, and about 25 years since I lived in Flatbush. But yes, it's still white people talking to white people and ignoring everyone else.

Even many of the comments here in town about Brooklyn hipsters and bugaboo strollers and craft beers and such invading "our town" are just white people complaining about white people and ignoring everyone else.

Brooklyn as I remember it was quite diverse. I went to the Cuban/Dominican area for chicken rice and beans, the Arabic area for tasty meats, the German/Hasidic area for appliances, the black area for some very serious karaoke, the Jamaican area for... well you know. And they were all a mile or two or a subway stop or two away. We do have that to some degree here in and around SOMA, but it's more of a 20-30 minute drive away. But again, none of these folks ever talk about that.

I love how textured our community is, and that itself mimics Brooklyn, but agree that using Brooklyn as a term is not accurate often times because Brooklyn itself is just too immense and complex. They should rephrase it to say that Brownstone Brooklyn and UWS'ers are finding similar communities and lifestyles in SOMA.

noo2wood said:
relx,
Clearly it's been about 10 years since I lived in Park Slope, about 20 years since I went to school in Fort Greene, and about 25 years since I lived in Flatbush. But yes, it's still white people talking to white people and ignoring everyone else.
Even many of the comments here in town about Brooklyn hipsters and bugaboo strollers and craft beers and such invading "our town" are just white people complaining about white people and ignoring everyone else.
Brooklyn as I remember it was quite diverse. I went to the Cuban/Dominican area for chicken rice and beans, the Arabic area for tasty meats, the German/Hasidic area for appliances, the black area for some very serious karaoke, the Jamaican area for... well you know. And they were all a mile or two or a subway stop or two away. We do have that to some degree here in and around SOMA, but it's more of a 20-30 minute drive away. But again, none of these folks ever talk about that.

I think the main problem in Brooklyn is not hipsters and the associated strollers and beers they bring with them, but the totally unbalanced economic situation that has developed over the past few decades. In the last apartment I lived in, the people across the hall where basically one step above being on welfare, and many older tenants in the building were on public assistance. Yet, across the street, there was a $4 million dollar house that a Vanity Fair writer had purchased. Everything was just completely out of whack. When I first moved into the neighborhood around 2000, there was a nice ethnic and racial mix because nobody was too wealthy. Now, you have millionaires next to people on public assistance, and its not a pleasant mix.

But that happens in any transitional neighborhood. Take Broad Street in Philly north towards and past Temple, you'll see the same thing. Or visit Southeast Atlanta.

relx said:

noo2wood said:
relx,
Clearly it's been about 10 years since I lived in Park Slope, about 20 years since I went to school in Fort Greene, and about 25 years since I lived in Flatbush. But yes, it's still white people talking to white people and ignoring everyone else.
Even many of the comments here in town about Brooklyn hipsters and bugaboo strollers and craft beers and such invading "our town" are just white people complaining about white people and ignoring everyone else.
Brooklyn as I remember it was quite diverse. I went to the Cuban/Dominican area for chicken rice and beans, the Arabic area for tasty meats, the German/Hasidic area for appliances, the black area for some very serious karaoke, the Jamaican area for... well you know. And they were all a mile or two or a subway stop or two away. We do have that to some degree here in and around SOMA, but it's more of a 20-30 minute drive away. But again, none of these folks ever talk about that.

I think the main problem in Brooklyn is not hipsters and the associated strollers and beers they bring with them, but the totally unbalanced economic situation that has developed over the past few decades. In the last apartment I lived in, the people across the hall where basically one step above being on welfare, and many older tenants in the building were on public assistance. Yet, across the street, there was a $4 million dollar house that a Vanity Fair writer had purchased. Everything was just completely out of whack. When I first moved into the neighborhood around 2000, there was a nice ethnic and racial mix because nobody was too wealthy. Now, you have millionaires next to people on public assistance, and its not a pleasant mix.

BubbaTerp said:
But that happens in any transitional neighborhood. Take Broad Street in Philly north towards and past Temple, you'll see the same thing. Or visit Southeast Atlanta.

relx said:

noo2wood said:
relx,
Clearly it's been about 10 years since I lived in Park Slope, about 20 years since I went to school in Fort Greene, and about 25 years since I lived in Flatbush. But yes, it's still white people talking to white people and ignoring everyone else.
Even many of the comments here in town about Brooklyn hipsters and bugaboo strollers and craft beers and such invading "our town" are just white people complaining about white people and ignoring everyone else.
Brooklyn as I remember it was quite diverse. I went to the Cuban/Dominican area for chicken rice and beans, the Arabic area for tasty meats, the German/Hasidic area for appliances, the black area for some very serious karaoke, the Jamaican area for... well you know. And they were all a mile or two or a subway stop or two away. We do have that to some degree here in and around SOMA, but it's more of a 20-30 minute drive away. But again, none of these folks ever talk about that.

I think the main problem in Brooklyn is not hipsters and the associated strollers and beers they bring with them, but the totally unbalanced economic situation that has developed over the past few decades. In the last apartment I lived in, the people across the hall where basically one step above being on welfare, and many older tenants in the building were on public assistance. Yet, across the street, there was a $4 million dollar house that a Vanity Fair writer had purchased. Everything was just completely out of whack. When I first moved into the neighborhood around 2000, there was a nice ethnic and racial mix because nobody was too wealthy. Now, you have millionaires next to people on public assistance, and its not a pleasant mix.

I agree, its just so extreme in Brooklyn, and with rent stabilization laws, you still have a lot of the older, poorer folks living in the middle of all the gentrification, many pressured legally and illegally to leave.

Theoretically, you see it here, with SOMA bordering Vauxhall, Irvington and Newark

relx said:

BubbaTerp said:
But that happens in any transitional neighborhood. Take Broad Street in Philly north towards and past Temple, you'll see the same thing. Or visit Southeast Atlanta.

relx said:

noo2wood said:
relx,
Clearly it's been about 10 years since I lived in Park Slope, about 20 years since I went to school in Fort Greene, and about 25 years since I lived in Flatbush. But yes, it's still white people talking to white people and ignoring everyone else.
Even many of the comments here in town about Brooklyn hipsters and bugaboo strollers and craft beers and such invading "our town" are just white people complaining about white people and ignoring everyone else.
Brooklyn as I remember it was quite diverse. I went to the Cuban/Dominican area for chicken rice and beans, the Arabic area for tasty meats, the German/Hasidic area for appliances, the black area for some very serious karaoke, the Jamaican area for... well you know. And they were all a mile or two or a subway stop or two away. We do have that to some degree here in and around SOMA, but it's more of a 20-30 minute drive away. But again, none of these folks ever talk about that.

I think the main problem in Brooklyn is not hipsters and the associated strollers and beers they bring with them, but the totally unbalanced economic situation that has developed over the past few decades. In the last apartment I lived in, the people across the hall where basically one step above being on welfare, and many older tenants in the building were on public assistance. Yet, across the street, there was a $4 million dollar house that a Vanity Fair writer had purchased. Everything was just completely out of whack. When I first moved into the neighborhood around 2000, there was a nice ethnic and racial mix because nobody was too wealthy. Now, you have millionaires next to people on public assistance, and its not a pleasant mix.

I agree, its just so extreme in Brooklyn, and with rent stabilization laws, you still have a lot of the older, poorer folks living in the middle of all the gentrification, many pressured legally and illegally to leave.

j_r said:

getalife said:
While we are at this Brooklyn West, what about those signs that Maplewood is a "stigma-free" town. I guess it depends on which side of Springfield Avenue you live on, and now the sub-category of Burnett, which leaves the only section of Maplewood that has no choice of elementary schools. Seth Boyden has to "depend on the kindness of strangers" to integrate our school. It's bull*****.

The mysterious Stigma Free sign program has to do with mental health and nothing to do with race.
http://www.codeyfund.org/

Why are they not more specific? And aren't other towns stigma-free in that regard? I don't think this town discriminates racially as much as the people care about how much property you own, and how close to downtown you are. When I was recommending a good men's store for suits on Springfield Ave. to someone, she dismissed the idea out-of-hand with a "Oh, I never shop over there." It would help Maplewood tremendously if more people would shop on Springfield Ave. We just lost a great yarn shop recently...

noo2wood said:
What bothers me most about the Brooklyn West moniker is that it only refers to white, upper-middle-class Brooklyn (Brooklyn Heights, Carroll Gardens, Park Slope, Williamsburg) and not deep Brooklyn (Black, Latino, Russian, Arabic, Hasidic, etc). And when they compare it to SOMA, they're only referring to white upper-middle-class SOMA as well. So what I basically hear is white people talking to other white people about how it's good for white people.

I think you're overgeneralizing a bit but your overall observation is right on target.

Not sure what the issue is. Clearly people are smart enough to know that a tagline or nickname is just that, and that M/SO is different from Park Slope, Prospect Heights, Fort Greene etc. Who would walk down South Orange Av. or Maplewood village or a more residential street and think, "Wow, this is just like DeKalb Avenue! I can't see any difference! Incredible!"

BubbaTerp said:
I love how textured our community is, and that itself mimics Brooklyn, but agree that using Brooklyn as a term is not accurate often times because Brooklyn itself is just too immense and complex. They should rephrase it to say that Brownstone Brooklyn and UWS'ers are finding similar communities and lifestyles in SOMA.

Yes.