MSO OR BROOKLYN WEST

noo2wood said:
What bothers me most about the Brooklyn West moniker is that it only refers to white, upper-middle-class Brooklyn (Brooklyn Heights, Carroll Gardens, Park Slope, Williamsburg) and not deep Brooklyn (Black, Latino, Russian, Arabic, Hasidic, etc). And when they compare it to SOMA, they're only referring to white upper-middle-class SOMA as well. So what I basically hear is white people talking to other white people about how it's good for white people. I mean I don't see them recruiting from Prospect Heights or Fort Green or Bed Stuy or Flatbush or Ocean Parkway or Brighton Beach or Bay Ridge or Sheepshead Bay or East New York or Far Rockaway).
I thought the same thing when I lived in Park Slope, and they referred to it as the Lower West Side.

Yes. This.

relx said:

ridski said:
There was a couple that we knew through friends who moved here in 2003 from Brooklyn. They were the reason we heard about Maplewood, so we started looking and moved out here in 2004. Within 9 months they had encountered a few incidents - I believe the xenon lights were stolen from their car one night and there was an attempted break-in - and they moved back to Brooklyn saying it was safer. So yeah, it does happen.

While statistically crime is obviously much, much lower, the experience of crime can be much more jarring emotionally here, as it seems to come out of nowhere. Just walking the streets in Brooklyn, you were constantly exposed on a daily basis to people who looked and acted like they could be criminals--homeless people, people having loud fights on their cell phones, teenagers who would curse loudly and act thuggish when in groups (had a rock, a snowball and a large box thrown at me on three separate occasions over the years), plus the random street noise, loud radios from cars, etc. It was definitely not a peaceful atmosphere, so dealt with the crime "feel" as part of the price of living there. In the last five years I lived in Brooklyn, there were two shootings within a block of our apartment, and at no time did I feel like I had to live the area in a hurry. Conversely, if there were a shooting in front of my house today, I would freak out for months. Even incidental crime in South Orange, where I live, bothers me, even if it is not anywhere close to me. I think we have expectations that a suburb should be safe, and for the most part it is, so when crime rears its ugly head, it is more upsetting than in a place like Brooklyn, where you got used to living in an environment where it felt like a crime could happen any minute--it was just the city being the city. When I was younger, I used to actually enjoy the lawless atmosphere of the city.

I don't know where you lived in Brooklyn, but which neighborhood did you live in where there was so much chaos, homeless people, shootings (2 shootings within a block of your apartment??), people "who looked and acted like they could be criminals", etc.?

I live in Brooklyn and rarely/never encounter these things in my neighborhood.

Woven into Fort Greene life in the 80's and 90's were street shootings over crack sale territory, etc. I don't think these things occurred in more affluent Brooklyn neighborhoods. For the time it lasted, lots of young people unfortunately lost their lives. Before,and for a very short time after that time, Fort Greene was wonderful,affordable, truly diverse neighborhood. As for seeing people "looking and acting like criminals" on a daily basis, that sounds like another kind of paranoia.

Shoshana said:

relx said:

ridski said:
There was a couple that we knew through friends who moved here in 2003 from Brooklyn. They were the reason we heard about Maplewood, so we started looking and moved out here in 2004. Within 9 months they had encountered a few incidents - I believe the xenon lights were stolen from their car one night and there was an attempted break-in - and they moved back to Brooklyn saying it was safer. So yeah, it does happen.

While statistically crime is obviously much, much lower, the experience of crime can be much more jarring emotionally here, as it seems to come out of nowhere. Just walking the streets in Brooklyn, you were constantly exposed on a daily basis to people who looked and acted like they could be criminals--homeless people, people having loud fights on their cell phones, teenagers who would curse loudly and act thuggish when in groups (had a rock, a snowball and a large box thrown at me on three separate occasions over the years), plus the random street noise, loud radios from cars, etc. It was definitely not a peaceful atmosphere, so dealt with the crime "feel" as part of the price of living there. In the last five years I lived in Brooklyn, there were two shootings within a block of our apartment, and at no time did I feel like I had to live the area in a hurry. Conversely, if there were a shooting in front of my house today, I would freak out for months. Even incidental crime in South Orange, where I live, bothers me, even if it is not anywhere close to me. I think we have expectations that a suburb should be safe, and for the most part it is, so when crime rears its ugly head, it is more upsetting than in a place like Brooklyn, where you got used to living in an environment where it felt like a crime could happen any minute--it was just the city being the city. When I was younger, I used to actually enjoy the lawless atmosphere of the city.

I don't know where you lived in Brooklyn, but which neighborhood did you live in where there was so much chaos, homeless people, shootings (2 shootings within a block of your apartment??), people "who looked and acted like they could be criminals", etc.?
I live in Brooklyn and rarely/never encounter these things in my neighborhood.

In the heart of Fort Greene. I lived there for 13 years, and there were actually three shootings within a block of our apartment (in two different buildings). A bullet from one of the shootings bounced off the hood of my car. And yes, there were people walking around the neighborhood who looked and acted like criminals, cursing at the top of their lungs, having fights in the street, etc. It was worse the last five years we lived there because we lived in a first floor apartment and got to experience all of the wonderful sights and sounds of the street. We also had really bad neighbors who drank on the stoop and had fights. I am not saying that Fort Greene is not an aesthetically beautiful place to live, and the neighborhood definitely has a nice vibe to it, and I did like it overall. It wasn't like we were bombarded with crime on a regular basis, but I never understood why the neighborhood became as expensive as Park Slope, Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn Heights, etc., as it is not as nice as those other neighborhoods, and definitely still has a bad element nestled among those multi-million dollar brownstones.

relx said:

Shoshana said:

relx said:

ridski said:
There was a couple that we knew through friends who moved here in 2003 from Brooklyn. They were the reason we heard about Maplewood, so we started looking and moved out here in 2004. Within 9 months they had encountered a few incidents - I believe the xenon lights were stolen from their car one night and there was an attempted break-in - and they moved back to Brooklyn saying it was safer. So yeah, it does happen.

While statistically crime is obviously much, much lower, the experience of crime can be much more jarring emotionally here, as it seems to come out of nowhere. Just walking the streets in Brooklyn, you were constantly exposed on a daily basis to people who looked and acted like they could be criminals--homeless people, people having loud fights on their cell phones, teenagers who would curse loudly and act thuggish when in groups (had a rock, a snowball and a large box thrown at me on three separate occasions over the years), plus the random street noise, loud radios from cars, etc. It was definitely not a peaceful atmosphere, so dealt with the crime "feel" as part of the price of living there. In the last five years I lived in Brooklyn, there were two shootings within a block of our apartment, and at no time did I feel like I had to live the area in a hurry. Conversely, if there were a shooting in front of my house today, I would freak out for months. Even incidental crime in South Orange, where I live, bothers me, even if it is not anywhere close to me. I think we have expectations that a suburb should be safe, and for the most part it is, so when crime rears its ugly head, it is more upsetting than in a place like Brooklyn, where you got used to living in an environment where it felt like a crime could happen any minute--it was just the city being the city. When I was younger, I used to actually enjoy the lawless atmosphere of the city.

I don't know where you lived in Brooklyn, but which neighborhood did you live in where there was so much chaos, homeless people, shootings (2 shootings within a block of your apartment??), people "who looked and acted like they could be criminals", etc.?
I live in Brooklyn and rarely/never encounter these things in my neighborhood.

In the heart of Fort Greene. I lived there for 13 years, and there were actually three shootings within a block of our apartment (in two different buildings). A bullet from one of the shootings bounced off the hood of my car. And yes, there were people walking around the neighborhood who looked and acted like criminals, cursing at the top of their lungs, having fights in the street, etc. It was worse the last five years we lived there because we lived in a first floor apartment and got to experience all of the wonderful sights and sounds of the street. We also had really bad neighbors who drank on the stoop and had fights. I am not saying that Fort Greene is not an aesthetically beautiful place to live, and the neighborhood definitely has a nice vibe to it, and I did like it overall. It wasn't like we were bombarded with crime on a regular basis, but I never understood why the neighborhood became as expensive as Park Slope, Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn Heights, etc., as it is not as nice as those other neighborhoods, and definitely still has a bad element nestled among those multi-million dollar brownstones.

Fort Greene has a large housing project on one side of Fort Greene Park. While obviously most residents of housing projects are peaceful regular folks, it is a low income project so in many projects (NYCHA housing) there are some problems in many (not all) projects with drug and gang violence

However, the majority of Brooklyn neighborhoods don't have projects in them; that's why I wonder why people always talk about "Brooklyn" and crime.

Shoshana said:

relx said:

Shoshana said:

relx said:

ridski said:
There was a couple that we knew through friends who moved here in 2003 from Brooklyn. They were the reason we heard about Maplewood, so we started looking and moved out here in 2004. Within 9 months they had encountered a few incidents - I believe the xenon lights were stolen from their car one night and there was an attempted break-in - and they moved back to Brooklyn saying it was safer. So yeah, it does happen.

While statistically crime is obviously much, much lower, the experience of crime can be much more jarring emotionally here, as it seems to come out of nowhere. Just walking the streets in Brooklyn, you were constantly exposed on a daily basis to people who looked and acted like they could be criminals--homeless people, people having loud fights on their cell phones, teenagers who would curse loudly and act thuggish when in groups (had a rock, a snowball and a large box thrown at me on three separate occasions over the years), plus the random street noise, loud radios from cars, etc. It was definitely not a peaceful atmosphere, so dealt with the crime "feel" as part of the price of living there. In the last five years I lived in Brooklyn, there were two shootings within a block of our apartment, and at no time did I feel like I had to live the area in a hurry. Conversely, if there were a shooting in front of my house today, I would freak out for months. Even incidental crime in South Orange, where I live, bothers me, even if it is not anywhere close to me. I think we have expectations that a suburb should be safe, and for the most part it is, so when crime rears its ugly head, it is more upsetting than in a place like Brooklyn, where you got used to living in an environment where it felt like a crime could happen any minute--it was just the city being the city. When I was younger, I used to actually enjoy the lawless atmosphere of the city.

I don't know where you lived in Brooklyn, but which neighborhood did you live in where there was so much chaos, homeless people, shootings (2 shootings within a block of your apartment??), people "who looked and acted like they could be criminals", etc.?
I live in Brooklyn and rarely/never encounter these things in my neighborhood.

In the heart of Fort Greene. I lived there for 13 years, and there were actually three shootings within a block of our apartment (in two different buildings). A bullet from one of the shootings bounced off the hood of my car. And yes, there were people walking around the neighborhood who looked and acted like criminals, cursing at the top of their lungs, having fights in the street, etc. It was worse the last five years we lived there because we lived in a first floor apartment and got to experience all of the wonderful sights and sounds of the street. We also had really bad neighbors who drank on the stoop and had fights. I am not saying that Fort Greene is not an aesthetically beautiful place to live, and the neighborhood definitely has a nice vibe to it, and I did like it overall. It wasn't like we were bombarded with crime on a regular basis, but I never understood why the neighborhood became as expensive as Park Slope, Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn Heights, etc., as it is not as nice as those other neighborhoods, and definitely still has a bad element nestled among those multi-million dollar brownstones.

Fort Greene has a large housing project on one side of Fort Greene Park. While obviously most residents of housing projects are peaceful regular folks, it is a low income project so in many projects (NYCHA housing) there are some problems in many (not all) projects with drug and gang violence
However, the majority of Brooklyn neighborhoods don't have projects in them; that's why I wonder why people always talk about "Brooklyn" and crime.

Neighborhoods such as Bedford–Stuyvesant, Brownsville, Canarsie, and East New York have high crime rates and very high populations. Have many Maplewood residents ever been to these places?

There were 1.67 violent crimes per 1000 people in Maplewood last year and 6.4 per 1000 in Brooklyn.

Woot said:

Shoshana said:

relx said:

Shoshana said:

relx said:

ridski said:
There was a couple that we knew through friends who moved here in 2003 from Brooklyn. They were the reason we heard about Maplewood, so we started looking and moved out here in 2004. Within 9 months they had encountered a few incidents - I believe the xenon lights were stolen from their car one night and there was an attempted break-in - and they moved back to Brooklyn saying it was safer. So yeah, it does happen.

While statistically crime is obviously much, much lower, the experience of crime can be much more jarring emotionally here, as it seems to come out of nowhere. Just walking the streets in Brooklyn, you were constantly exposed on a daily basis to people who looked and acted like they could be criminals--homeless people, people having loud fights on their cell phones, teenagers who would curse loudly and act thuggish when in groups (had a rock, a snowball and a large box thrown at me on three separate occasions over the years), plus the random street noise, loud radios from cars, etc. It was definitely not a peaceful atmosphere, so dealt with the crime "feel" as part of the price of living there. In the last five years I lived in Brooklyn, there were two shootings within a block of our apartment, and at no time did I feel like I had to live the area in a hurry. Conversely, if there were a shooting in front of my house today, I would freak out for months. Even incidental crime in South Orange, where I live, bothers me, even if it is not anywhere close to me. I think we have expectations that a suburb should be safe, and for the most part it is, so when crime rears its ugly head, it is more upsetting than in a place like Brooklyn, where you got used to living in an environment where it felt like a crime could happen any minute--it was just the city being the city. When I was younger, I used to actually enjoy the lawless atmosphere of the city.

I don't know where you lived in Brooklyn, but which neighborhood did you live in where there was so much chaos, homeless people, shootings (2 shootings within a block of your apartment??), people "who looked and acted like they could be criminals", etc.?
I live in Brooklyn and rarely/never encounter these things in my neighborhood.

In the heart of Fort Greene. I lived there for 13 years, and there were actually three shootings within a block of our apartment (in two different buildings). A bullet from one of the shootings bounced off the hood of my car. And yes, there were people walking around the neighborhood who looked and acted like criminals, cursing at the top of their lungs, having fights in the street, etc. It was worse the last five years we lived there because we lived in a first floor apartment and got to experience all of the wonderful sights and sounds of the street. We also had really bad neighbors who drank on the stoop and had fights. I am not saying that Fort Greene is not an aesthetically beautiful place to live, and the neighborhood definitely has a nice vibe to it, and I did like it overall. It wasn't like we were bombarded with crime on a regular basis, but I never understood why the neighborhood became as expensive as Park Slope, Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn Heights, etc., as it is not as nice as those other neighborhoods, and definitely still has a bad element nestled among those multi-million dollar brownstones.

Fort Greene has a large housing project on one side of Fort Greene Park. While obviously most residents of housing projects are peaceful regular folks, it is a low income project so in many projects (NYCHA housing) there are some problems in many (not all) projects with drug and gang violence
However, the majority of Brooklyn neighborhoods don't have projects in them; that's why I wonder why people always talk about "Brooklyn" and crime.

Neighborhoods such as Bedford–Stuyvesant, Brownsville, Canarsie, and East New York have high crime rates and very high populations. Have many Maplewood residents ever been to these places?
There were 1.67 violent crimes per 1000 people in Maplewood last year and 6.4 per 1000 in Brooklyn.

Exactly. I suspect that most Maplewood residents did not live in Bed-Stuy, Brownsville, Canarsie, East New York. They are more coming from Park Slope, etc. However, Park Slope actually also has a relatively high crime rate!