Meet the Mets (For Mets Fans Only!)
NotoriousEAM said:
What story? I hadn't heard.
It's a quick google search trip to depression.
NotoriousEAM said:
Train_of_Thought said:
I hope the Beltran burner account story floating around proves untrue. That would be sad.
What story? I hadn't heard.
Who knows about this source. Again, I'm hoping not him. https://awfulannouncing.com/mlb/carlos-beltran-defending-ivan-b-twitter-account-is-linked-to-an-ivan-beltran-e-mail-address-which-is-carlos-beltrans-middle-name.html
NotoriousEAM said:
Well, at the very least, Beltran has a lot of explaining to do and probably would need to do it in front of the media after he tells ownership everything he knows. In any case, it's serious stuff. Should MLB rescind the Astros championship?
It's already too late for any apology from Beltran to be sincere.
Mets once again the shining example of how not to manage an organization.
Why The Mets Shouldn't Fire Carlos Beltran
But he wasn’t then. He was a player then. And there has been no other player named in the investigation, only Beltran – and even then, only peripherally. If that was Rob Manfred’s way of shaming the Mets into making Beltran part of the punishment levied, it hasn’t worked yet. That means the Mets, at least to this hour, believe this is salvageable.
this is one of my beefs with this whole thing. Manfred gave Beltran immunity for his truthful testimony, and then turned around and named him as the only player mentioned in the report. What good is immunity if you then take away the anonymity, more than likely in the hopes of getting Beltran fired? Seems pretty underhanded on the part of Manfred. Almost as unethical as sign stealing IMHO.
ml1 said:
That’s the realpolitik case, right there.
DaveSchmidt said:
That’s the realpolitik case, right there.
I hit "reply" too soon. Edited it to include my take, which included what I consider Rob Manfred's underhandedness in this whole episode.
ml1 said:
Why The Mets Shouldn't Fire Carlos Beltran
But he wasn’t then. He was a player then. And there has been no other player named in the investigation, only Beltran – and even then, only peripherally. If that was Rob Manfred’s way of shaming the Mets into making Beltran part of the punishment levied, it hasn’t worked yet. That means the Mets, at least to this hour, believe this is salvageable.this is one of my beefs with this whole thing. Manfred gave Beltran immunity for his truthful testimony, and then turned around and named him as the only player mentioned in the report. What good is immunity if you then take away the anonymity, more than likely in the hopes of getting Beltran fired? Seems pretty underhanded on the part of Manfred. Almost as unethical as sign stealing IMHO.
I suspect that it was more than Beltran's testimony that incriminated Beltran.
I can't believe the first public commentary by a Mets employee is Jessica Mendoza saying she's angry with Mike Fiers going public. What a joke.
Soul_29 said:
I suspect that it was more than Beltran's testimony that incriminated Beltran.
imagine if the county prosecutor gave you immunity for testimony that incriminated yourself, and then when it was over, handed the evidence to the feds to prosecute you under some other statute. Pretty crappy isn't it?
ml1 said:
Soul_29 said:
I suspect that it was more than Beltran's testimony that incriminated Beltran.
imagine if the county prosecutor gave you immunity for testimony that incriminated yourself, and then when it was over, handed the evidence to the feds to prosecute you under some other statute. Pretty crappy isn't it?
I disagree with your characterization of this, but that's a different discussion.
What I would like to know is, underneath all of this, what's so special about Beltran the manager candidate in the first place that makes you so passionately want to defend and keep him? He's never managed an inning; I believe no other team with an opening for this year interviewed him (only the Yankees the year before); star-level players generally don't succeed as managers; and oh, doesn't appear to be the most honest of fellas. Respectfully, why do you so badly want him managing our beloved Mets?
Train_of_Thought said:
ml1 said:
imagine if the county prosecutor gave you immunity for testimony that incriminated yourself, and then when it was over, handed the evidence to the feds to prosecute you under some other statute. Pretty crappy isn't it?
I disagree with your characterization of this, but that's a different discussion.
Presumably, my counsel would have advised me of that possibility before I walked into it, which would temper my cries of foul. Presumably, Beltran understood the difference between immunity and anonymity, and that it was beyond the commissioner’s power to force a team to keep him in his job.
Pretty crappy [ETA: to single out the player accused of being ringleader]? To paraphrase an earlier reply to a question of fairness, I’d say that’s a stretch.
Train_of_Thought said:
I disagree with your characterization of this, but that's a different discussion.
What I would like to know is, underneath all of this, what's so special about Beltran the manager candidate in the first place that makes you so passionately want to defend and keep him? He's never managed an inning; I believe no other team with an opening for this year interviewed him (only the Yankees the year before); star-level players generally don't succeed as managers; and oh, doesn't appear to be the most honest of fellas. Respectfully, why do you so badly want him managing our beloved Mets?
mostly I object to the knee-jerk self-righteousness of the talk radio crowd. If you could convince me that the Astros were the only ones doing something like this, then I might want Beltran to be fired. Not to mention how many of the people howling about this would likely do the same thing if they thought it would give them an edge in a hyper competitive profession with a huge number of guys ready to take your job. I'm not as willing to toss guys overboard as quickly for an offense that frankly MLB wasn't even taking that seriously itself until one guy spoke out.
If it’s unfair to make examples of individuals because “everybody’s doing it,” so you remove that arrow from your enforcement quiver, what do you replace it with? Or when you’ve let misconduct slide for a while before it comes to light, do you keep your bow on your shoulder with a warning, “OK, but next time ...”?
ml1 said:
If you could convince me that the Astros were the only ones doing something like this, then I might want Beltran to be fired. Not to mention how many of the people howling about this would likely do the same thing if they thought it would give them an edge in a hyper competitive profession...
On a larger, societal level, this saddens me a little. But I confess it is consistent with my own failures to successfully compete in this life, so.
Train...meet real world. Real world...Train.
Just heard. Wow. Not surprised. Who will the Mets turn to at this point? Would you consider bringing back Terry Collins? Promote Edgardo Alfonzo? Hensley Meulens? Chili Davis? Get Dusty Baker? Egads.
By Anthony DiComo @AnthonyDiComo12 minutes ago
NEW YORK -- In a stunning turn of events, Carlos Beltrán is stepping down as Mets manager less than three months after taking the job, according to multiple reports. The club has not confirmed the news, which was first reported by Yahoo! Sports' Tim Brown. Beltrán did not manage a single game with the Mets, who suddenly find themselves without a top baseball official less than a month before the start of Spring Training.
Luis Rojas is apparently the frontrunner. I thought it might be Collins since he is the bench coach. They fired Alfonzo as manager of the Cyclones after they won the title. He's now a club ambassador, whatever that is, so there must be something BVW doesn't like about him.
Train_of_Thought said:
On a larger, societal level, this saddens me a little. But I confess it is consistent with my own failures to successfully compete in this life, so.
Train...meet real world. Real world...Train.
it's all the PED guys too. We've got a guy who served a long PED suspension with another team, and I don't recall outrage when BVW traded for him. That's another of my objections to this outrage. Guys who served PED suspensions or domestic abuse suspensions are welcomed back.
DaveSchmidt said:
If it’s unfair to make examples of individuals because “everybody’s doing it,” so you remove that arrow from your enforcement quiver, what do you replace it with? Or when you’ve let misconduct slide for a while before it comes to light, do you keep your bow on your shoulder with a warning, “OK, but next time ...”?
Manfred took away his arrow when he granted immunity to the players. I'm really arguing (although not well) for proportionality. You've got an offense that MLB didn't take seriously until an article in the Athletic, and now you've got a guy losing his job over something they turned a blind eye to when he was a player. More appropriate would have been a fine. I'm pretty sure a $1MM fine would have stung a guy like Beltran. But MLB couldn't go that route. So instead of penalizing Beltran, Manfred outs him as the only one of the players involved, and he loses his job. In a year or two some other team will probably hire him, and maybe Beltran will be successful, and maybe he won't.
This penalty seems like overkill. Did Bill Belichick lose his job over deflategate, even though that arguable influenced the awarding of a Super Bowl berth? Should he have lost his job? What about all their other chicanery with illegally shooting video of other teams? There were punishments levied, but last I looked he still has a job. And I'm not aware of too many fans clamoring for his banishment or for a season long suspension.
New Carlos Beltran related topic: Will the sign-stealing report and the blowback effect Beltran's Hall of Fame chances?
Discuss.
(Edited to add)
I can sense ml1's head exploding...
Soul_29 said:
New Carlos Beltran related topic: Will the sign-stealing report and the blowback effect Beltran's Hall of Fame chances?
Discuss.
(Edited to add)
I can sense ml1's head exploding...
I'm sure it will with some voters. Clemens and Bonds still aren't in.
couple of good articles on the topic, btw:
Sign Stealing Has Long Been a Part of MLB. It's Not Going Anywhere
and:
Nationals Planned for Astros' Possible Sign-Stealing During 2019 World Series
Sign stealing can be stopped if opponents take is seriously. And note that the Nats prepared this remedy for the Brewers, Cards and Dodgers as well. This is what needs to be done to permanently stop sign stealing. All it will take is a few guys getting buzzed inside by fastballs when they were leaning in looking for outside breaking pitches.
Do you really think another team will offer Beltran a managerial position? I would be surprised if we ever see him, Cora, Hinch and Luhnow again, eventhough Hinch did try to stop them a couple of times. This will definitely impact Beltran's HOF chances, not to mention he lied to the media.
Soul_29 said:
New Carlos Beltran related topic: Will the sign-stealing report and the blowback effect Beltran's Hall of Fame chances?
Discuss.
(Edited to add)
I can sense ml1's head exploding...
Did you think he was going on before this? Did he have the creds?
jfinnegan said:
I can't believe the first public commentary by a Mets employee is Jessica Mendoza saying she's angry with Mike Fiers going public. What a joke.
Yeah this was vile. I can't see a.) what's she's doing with the club at all and b.) how someone who's supposed to be a journalist, or journalism adjacent, can argue with people saying what they want to on the record.
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What story? I hadn't heard.