I hope everyone is taking notes
how about this? We now have an attorney general who took the opportunity of his first public statement as AG to tell us that we're basically in the middle of a major crime wave.
The exact opposite of the truth.
I don't get your point here.
And I never said they're shooting for higher approval ratings.
And you're telling me, Mr. Lunatic, that I haven't seen anything yet?
Do I not write clearly?
ctrzaska said:
I didn't say they wanted to bomb anyone, or would go out of their way for it, only that they would if given the chance. None of this is being done for approval ratings, but since you were the one hanging his hat on the topic of ratings, I mention it as you clearly haven't seen anything yet. And when they skyrocket after an event, you can look back here and pause before you put up a thread in disbelief of the polling data.
well, one thing I'm doing is making complacent people like you uncomfortable.
Maybe eventually you'll wake up.
conandrob240 said:
so other than the endless posts, what have you DONE, drummerboy? And do you have recommended actions to share?
I have a few friends on FB who equal your "vigor" from a posting perspective but they are also constantly posting the things they've done and ways others can get involved.
drummerboy said:
how about this? We now have an attorney general who took the opportunity of his first public statement as AG to tell us that we're basically in the middle of a major crime wave.
The exact opposite of the truth.
And let us now enact repressive laws to make us safe.
I looked at the individual points that the trend line represents. Not one is higher than the highest pre-travel ban. I see one low outlier that is now not included.
Averages with a small number of observations can mislead. It's like the old joke about if Bill Gates and I had dinner. The average wealth at the table would be $20 billion.
drummerboy said:
that's odd. I see a line going up. what do you see?
ml1 said:
There is nothing in the chart you cited that leads to the conclusion that Trump is becoming more popular
drummerboy said:
maybe, but I don't take solace in your explanation.
One would hope that after three weeks of daily lies and chaos, that his popularity would be going down rather dramatically. The rise may be less dramatic if you remove the outliers, but the fact is that his popularity is rising.
That is quite worrisome to me.
ml1 said:
I wouldn't put too much stock in that. Look at the variation around the averages. There isn't a single point where he has a higher favorability score since the travel ban than before. The average is increasing because there is one very low score of 35% just after inauguration day which has probably fallen out of the current average. And his unfavorability is just as high as ever.
Anyone who is trying to paint this as Trump gaining in popularity is trying to spin you.
drummerboy said:
more data! Trump's popularity on the rise after 3 weeks of a g-d sh!tshow!!
America is liking it. Lookit these ratings!
I'm feeling pretty good about that. How 'bout you guys?
I'm not at all complacent and I'd bet $ I've done more than you. I've participated in 2 different demonstrations and placed dozens of calls to members of congress. Your silly, uneducated, lunatic-like posts actually have the opposite effect and make me not even bother reading them or taking you very seriously.
drummerboy said:
well, one thing I'm doing is making complacent people like you uncomfortable.
Maybe eventually you'll wake up.
conandrob240 said:
so other than the endless posts, what have you DONE, drummerboy? And do you have recommended actions to share?
I have a few friends on FB who equal your "vigor" from a posting perspective but they are also constantly posting the things they've done and ways others can get involved.
While Drummerboy's new threads may have been excessive at times, overall I appreciate his focus on the Trump unfolding disaster, and he raises many topics of discussion in a way that gets many people involved. His points, while occasionally combative, nevertheless, are informative and allow for debate and consideration. He forewarned about the bizarre antics and tactics of the Trump administration perhaps more presciently than anyone on MOL. I think that it is a legitimate role to raise concerns on an online thread, just as it is legitimate to go to a few protests, send out some postcards, and make dozens of calls. Neither are likely to significantly affect policy immediately or directly by themselves, but as part of a combined effort by millions of people over years, it will hopefully make a difference.
As the weeks and months and years pass without a return to the golden age of factory employment - the angry deluded pining for which is at the core of Trumpism, I believe - he will crumple. He's already looking kind of impotent and not just re the ban thing. His pattern is to throw an angry punch to get the base riled up but then fail to follow through or back down when the target doesn't cave. He doesn't have the attention span or convictions to actually craft policy with a view towards accomplishing something. Have you heard any tariff talk since the Mexican Prez told him to FO? He said a couple of weeks ago that his new cheap health care plan for everyone was almost done but that's since been replaced by vague mumbling about something coming at the end of this year or 2018. He made that aggressive pass at Tawain but then ate crow to the Chinese, affirming the one China policy.
Even stupid people have eyes and they will see. Tough tweets do not put food on the table.
I hope he will crumple also and I hope some of his appointees will quit as they face roadblock after roadblock. DeVos strikes me as one who won't have the guts to stick it out.
ml1 said:
I looked at the individual points that the trend line represents. Not one is higher than the highest pre-travel ban. I see one low outlier that is now not included.
You had me at "variation around the averages."
This is a long read (about 20-30 minutes), but it makes so many important points. While it was difficult to pick just a few, these are some of my favorites from the piece:
- The United States may be a nation of laws, but the proper functioning of the law depends upon the competence and integrity of those charged with executing it. A president determined to thwart the law in order to protect himself and those in his circle has many means to do so.
- By all early indications, the Trump presidency will corrode public integrity and the rule of law—and also do untold damage to American global leadership, the Western alliance, and democratic norms around the world. The damage has already begun, and it will not be soon or easily undone. Yet exactly how much damage is allowed to be done is an open question—the most important near-term question in American politics. It is also an intensely personal one, for its answer will be determined by the answer to another question: What will you do? And you? And you?
- Of course we want to believe that everything will turn out all right. In this instance, however, that lovely and customary American assumption itself qualifies as one of the most serious impediments to everything turning out all right. If the story ends without too much harm to the republic, it won’t be because the dangers were imagined, but because citizens resisted.
- The duty to resist should weigh most heavily upon those of us who—because of ideology or partisan affiliation or some other reason—are most predisposed to favor President Trump and his agenda. The years ahead will be years of temptation as well as danger: temptation to seize a rare political opportunity to cram through an agenda that the American majority would normally reject. Who knows when that chance will recur?
- Those citizens who fantasize about defying tyranny from within fortified compounds have never understood how liberty is actually threatened in a modern bureaucratic state: not by diktat and violence, but by the slow, demoralizing process of corruption and deceit. And the way that liberty must be defended is not with amateur firearms, but with an unwearying insistence upon the honesty, integrity, and professionalism of American institutions and those who lead them. We are living through the most dangerous challenge to the free government of the United States that anyone alive has encountered. What happens next is up to you and me. Don’t be afraid. This moment of danger can also be your finest hour as a citizen and an American
How to Build an Autocracy, by David Frum (a conservative, BTW)
+1
Jasmo said:
While Drummerboy's new threads may have been excessive at times, overall I appreciate his focus on the Trump unfolding disaster, and he raises many topics of discussion in a way that gets many people involved. His points, while occasionally combative, nevertheless, are informative and allow for debate and consideration. He forewarned about the bizarre antics and tactics of the Trump administration perhaps more presciently than anyone on MOL. I think that it is a legitimate role to raise concerns on an online thread, just as it is legitimate to go to a few protests, send out some postcards, and make dozens of calls. Neither are likely to significantly affect policy immediately or directly by themselves, but as part of a combined effort by millions of people over years, it will hopefully make a difference.
hey, I hope you're right and this is not indicative of growing support.
However, in your heart, do you think his support will go down? I don't. Not for some time anyway.
ml1 said:
I looked at the individual points that the trend line represents. Not one is higher than the highest pre-travel ban. I see one low outlier that is now not included.
Averages with a small number of observations can mislead. It's like the old joke about if Bill Gates and I had dinner. The average wealth at the table would be $20 billion.
drummerboy said:
that's odd. I see a line going up. what do you see?
ml1 said:
There is nothing in the chart you cited that leads to the conclusion that Trump is becoming more popular
drummerboy said:
maybe, but I don't take solace in your explanation.
One would hope that after three weeks of daily lies and chaos, that his popularity would be going down rather dramatically. The rise may be less dramatic if you remove the outliers, but the fact is that his popularity is rising.
That is quite worrisome to me.
ml1 said:
I wouldn't put too much stock in that. Look at the variation around the averages. There isn't a single point where he has a higher favorability score since the travel ban than before. The average is increasing because there is one very low score of 35% just after inauguration day which has probably fallen out of the current average. And his unfavorability is just as high as ever.
Anyone who is trying to paint this as Trump gaining in popularity is trying to spin you.
drummerboy said:
more data! Trump's popularity on the rise after 3 weeks of a g-d sh!tshow!!
America is liking it. Lookit these ratings!
I'm feeling pretty good about that. How 'bout you guys?
there is nothing more tiresome than the "look at what I've done" post.
woohoo for you, you lefty activist you!!
But uneducated? now, that hurts.
Anyway, I'd be quite interested to hear the "educated" view of the Trump threat.
Enlighten us. If you see so much wrong commentary about such an important issue, you owe it to us.
conandrob240 said:
I'm not at all complacent and I'd bet $ I've done more than you. I've participated in 2 different demonstrations and placed dozens of calls to members of congress. Your silly, uneducated, lunatic-like posts actually have the opposite effect and make me not even bother reading them or taking you very seriously.
drummerboy said:
well, one thing I'm doing is making complacent people like you uncomfortable.
Maybe eventually you'll wake up.
conandrob240 said:
so other than the endless posts, what have you DONE, drummerboy? And do you have recommended actions to share?
I have a few friends on FB who equal your "vigor" from a posting perspective but they are also constantly posting the things they've done and ways others can get involved.
Worth re-posting.
+++
shoshannah said:
This is a long read (about 20-30 minutes), but it makes so many important points. While it was difficult to pick just a few, these are some of my favorites from the piece:
- The United States may be a nation of laws, but the proper functioning of the law depends upon the competence and integrity of those charged with executing it. A president determined to thwart the law in order to protect himself and those in his circle has many means to do so.
- By all early indications, the Trump presidency will corrode public integrity and the rule of law—and also do untold damage to American global leadership, the Western alliance, and democratic norms around the world. The damage has already begun, and it will not be soon or easily undone. Yet exactly how much damage is allowed to be done is an open question—the most important near-term question in American politics. It is also an intensely personal one, for its answer will be determined by the answer to another question: What will you do? And you? And you?
- Of course we want to believe that everything will turn out all right. In this instance, however, that lovely and customary American assumption itself qualifies as one of the most serious impediments to everything turning out all right. If the story ends without too much harm to the republic, it won’t be because the dangers were imagined, but because citizens resisted.
- The duty to resist should weigh most heavily upon those of us who—because of ideology or partisan affiliation or some other reason—are most predisposed to favor President Trump and his agenda. The years ahead will be years of temptation as well as danger: temptation to seize a rare political opportunity to cram through an agenda that the American majority would normally reject. Who knows when that chance will recur?
- Those citizens who fantasize about defying tyranny from within fortified compounds have never understood how liberty is actually threatened in a modern bureaucratic state: not by diktat and violence, but by the slow, demoralizing process of corruption and deceit. And the way that liberty must be defended is not with amateur firearms, but with an unwearying insistence upon the honesty, integrity, and professionalism of American institutions and those who lead them. We are living through the most dangerous challenge to the free government of the United States that anyone alive has encountered. What happens next is up to you and me. Don’t be afraid. This moment of danger can also be your finest hour as a citizen and an American
How to Build an Autocracy, by David Frum (a conservative, BTW)
So, you've done nothing except rant and rage and post silly poll results on line? Good for you!
drummerboy said:
there is nothing more tiresome than the "look at what I've done" post.
woohoo for you, you lefty activist you!!
But uneducated? now, that hurts.
Anyway, I'd be quite interested to hear the "educated" view of the Trump threat.
Enlighten us. If you see so much wrong commentary about such an important issue, you owe it to us.
conandrob240 said:
I'm not at all complacent and I'd bet $ I've done more than you. I've participated in 2 different demonstrations and placed dozens of calls to members of congress. Your silly, uneducated, lunatic-like posts actually have the opposite effect and make me not even bother reading them or taking you very seriously.
drummerboy said:
well, one thing I'm doing is making complacent people like you uncomfortable.
Maybe eventually you'll wake up.
conandrob240 said:
so other than the endless posts, what have you DONE, drummerboy? And do you have recommended actions to share?
I have a few friends on FB who equal your "vigor" from a posting perspective but they are also constantly posting the things they've done and ways others can get involved.
it normally takes years, except in cases of a cataclysm like Katrina for a president's job approval to decline substantially. I assume most of the people who identify as Republican still think Trump is doing fine, and will continue to do so. OTOH, nothing he's done so far would seem to be done with an eye toward appealing to people who didn't vote for him. I can't see the unfavorables converting to favorable any time soon.
drummerboy said:
hey, I hope you're right and this is not indicative of growing support.
However, in your heart, do you think his support will go down? I don't. Not for some time anyway.
ml1 said:
I looked at the individual points that the trend line represents. Not one is higher than the highest pre-travel ban. I see one low outlier that is now not included.
Averages with a small number of observations can mislead. It's like the old joke about if Bill Gates and I had dinner. The average wealth at the table would be $20 billion.
drummerboy said:
that's odd. I see a line going up. what do you see?
ml1 said:
There is nothing in the chart you cited that leads to the conclusion that Trump is becoming more popular
drummerboy said:
maybe, but I don't take solace in your explanation.
One would hope that after three weeks of daily lies and chaos, that his popularity would be going down rather dramatically. The rise may be less dramatic if you remove the outliers, but the fact is that his popularity is rising.
That is quite worrisome to me.
ml1 said:
I wouldn't put too much stock in that. Look at the variation around the averages. There isn't a single point where he has a higher favorability score since the travel ban than before. The average is increasing because there is one very low score of 35% just after inauguration day which has probably fallen out of the current average. And his unfavorability is just as high as ever.
Anyone who is trying to paint this as Trump gaining in popularity is trying to spin you.
drummerboy said:
more data! Trump's popularity on the rise after 3 weeks of a g-d sh!tshow!!
America is liking it. Lookit these ratings!
I'm feeling pretty good about that. How 'bout you guys?
you know, if you wanted to do something useful, you would explain to MOL why my rantings are off base.
conandrob240 said:
So, you've done nothing except rant and rage and post silly poll results on line? Good for you!
This latest North Korea thing is another opportunity for him to show that he's an all talk bully and fraud. Or maybe he'll do something but what? Start a war with NK? Toss out another useless tweet attacking China for enabling NK?
Campaign slogans are so easy and governing is so hard. Sigh.
bub said:
This latest North Korea thing is another opportunity for him to show that he's an all talk bully and fraud. Or maybe he'll do something but what? Start a war with NK? Toss out another useless tweet attacking China for enabling NK?
Campaign slogans are so easy and governing is so hard. Sigh.
His initial response was standard U.S. policy - "we stand with our allies". The question is will S. Korea push ahead with the THAAD deployment and how will China react.
um, @conandrob240 and @drummerboy? Are you listening?
You're on the same team. Stop bickering and start organizing.
Quitter?
The President keeps telling everyone he "hates this job". Says he never should've run.
— White House staffer (@AngryWHStaffer) February 12, 2017
Does anyone not find this even a little disturbing?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/10/world/europe/bannon-vatican-julius-evola-fascism.html?_r=0
I posted the whole article in the Steven Bannon thread.
LOST said:
Does anyone not find this even a little disturbing?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/10/world/europe/bannon-vatican-julius-evola-fascism.html?_r=0
Frum captured the dilemma well in The Atlantic : "Civil unrest will not be a problem for the Trump presidency. It will be a resource. Trump will likely want not to repress it, but to publicize it—and the conservative entertainment-outrage complex will eagerly assist him. Immigration protesters marching with Mexican flags; Black Lives Matter demonstrators bearing antipolice slogans—these are the images of the opposition that Trump will wish his supporters to see. The more offensively the protesters behave, the more pleased Trump will be."
If you didn't see Stephen Miller this morning, you have to watch this video.
I'm at a loss to explain it - I have never seen a person lie like this before. I mean, I know what he's doing and why he's doing it, but I have nothing to compare it to.
He is like an automaton - totally tied into an alternate reality. It will be interesting to see if he becomes a preferred spokesman. And quite troublesome if he does.
Stephanopolous utterly doesn't know how to deal with him.
I'll search out his other appearances this morning.
I'm not sure what else to say, have to think about it some more. All I can say is, we have never experienced a propaganda machine like this before. Not even freaking close. Goebbels would be in awe.
Lunatic indeed.
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that's odd. I see a line going up. what do you see?