Gabby Petito
In the O.J. Simpson miniseries, there’s a flashback scene where Johnnie Cochran (then a prosecutor) is driving his young daughters in his luxury car. A cop pulls him over for no reason and as he’s making his way to the car, Cochran asks his kids, “What do we tell the police?” They reply, “Nothing!” Then he asks, “Who do the police get to talk to?” They reply, “Our lawyer!” Pretty good lesson.
Can someone explain to me why it would be a bad thing to talk to the police of you're innocent?
drummerboy said:
Can someone explain to me why it would be a bad thing to talk to the police of you're innocent?
because they are going to assume you're guilty, try to trip you up in their questioning, and possibly even get you to confess to something you didn't do. I thought you of all people would know the cops often aren't nearly as interested in the truth as they are closing a case.
I would never, never, ever talk to the police without a lawyer present.
drummerboy said:
Can someone explain to me why it would be a bad thing to talk to the police of you're innocent?
This is some real suburban white guy energy, I’m sorry to say.
If you’re completely innocent and only tell the police the truth, the absolute best case scenario is that you’re right where you started, a suspect. The worst (and much more likely) scenario is that you’re under arrest and charged with murder.
Like I said above, if this guy were innocent and all he tells them is “the last time I saw her we had an argument, she kicked me out, and I walked to town” and then they find her body buried in a shallow grave at the site of the argument - how do you think that’s going to sound in court?
I’m not a fan of stupid YouTube videos, but this is a good one.
RobB said:
Jaytee said:
BlueShirt88 said:
Who really knows, she could have killed herself, she struggled terribly with mental health issues. He’s not talking because they’re looking to pin the case on him as to hurry and close it. Let’s wait until they release the cause of death
How do you know she had terrible mental health issues? From what she said she said she has OCD, in fact both of them have it.
furthermore, if she killed herself why wouldn’t he call 911? Why drive for days on end back to Florida without calling anyone? I can’t believe people are actually rationalizing this.Nobody is rationalizing anything. He almost certainly killed her. But there’s at least a chance he didn’t - and in that case he’d be crazy to talk to the police. It can only hurt his case.
If he did kill her, he’d be crazy to talk to the police. It can only hurt his case.
more than likely the last person to see someone alive killed them. Of the list of "motive, means, and opportunity", the first two don't mean much without the third.
but the fact remains that people do all kinds of stupid and irrational things in the heat of the moment under stress. And if the victim died from an accident or suicide, the person with her could have panicked and done things that would make himself look guilty. In the moment he could have decided to move the body, which is also a crime. Who knows what could have happened when the cause of death is still unknown?
If anyone watched "On The Night Of" on HBO a couple of years ago, you'd see a panicked but innocent person do all kinds of careless and stupid things in the crime scene that incriminated him. Of course it was fiction, but everything the accused did in the moment rang true as what a panicked person finding a brutally murdered victim might do. In the dispassionate light of day, almost all of us think we'd respond rationally, smartly, confident that our innocence would be obvious to the police. But in the moment of panic, who knows?
When a cause of death is determined, then people can speculate with better information in hand than exists right now.
sorry, I'm not really buying your arguments. What you're saying is that if Gabby had legitimately gone missing, and Laundrie had nothing to do with it, then he should not talk to the police to help them find her, because of...reasons?.
Are you kidding?
drummerboy said:
sorry, I'm not really buying your arguments. What you're saying is that if Gabby had legitimately gone missing, and Laundrie had nothing to do with it, then he should not talk to the police to help them find her, because of...reasons?.
Are you kidding?
Not kidding. The police are going to go out of their way to make sure he hangs - because of course he did it.
So if you’re completely innocent why would you walk into that conversation? You talk to your lawyer and then do what that lawyer says. If the lawyer says shuddup, you shuddup.
drummerboy said:
sorry, I'm not really buying your arguments. What you're saying is that if Gabby had legitimately gone missing, and Laundrie had nothing to do with it, then he should not talk to the police to help them find her, because of...reasons?.
Are you kidding?
I don't think anyone arguing here believes Petito just wandered off and went missing. Because of course if that happened, Laundrie would and should have called 911 to have a search party convened. Something else happened, more than likely. Something that would cast suspicion on Laundrie even if he's innocent of murdering her. I'm not suggesting he's innocent OR guilty of killing her. I don't know, and neither does any one of us here speculating. But I understand why he isn't talking. If he killed Petito, the autopsy will probably provide plenty of evidence of his guilt.
no, you guys are conflating the facts of this case with my original question. People in this thread made flat out, no conditions statements to not talk to the police even if you're innocent.
That's what I'm questioning. The facts of this case are irrelevant to my question.
drummerboy said:
no, you guys are conflating the facts of this case with my original question. People in this thread made flat out, no conditions statements to not talk to the police even if you're innocent.
That's what I'm questioning. The facts of this case are irrelevant to my question.
Yes, absolutely flat out do not talk to the police, even if you’re innocent. You exercise your right to remain silent and talk to a lawyer. If the lawyer tells you to make a statement, you make a statement. If they tell you to shut your mouth, you shut your mouth.
The police are not your friend. I’m honestly surprised you don’t know that by now. If they’re talking to you, you’re a suspect. If you’re a suspect, there is nothing you can say that will help your case.
drummerboy said:
no, you guys are conflating the facts of this case with my original question. People in this thread made flat out, no conditions statements to not talk to the police even if you're innocent.
That's what I'm questioning. The facts of this case are irrelevant to my question.
Personally, I'm not suggesting you don't report a crime or a missing person. But once they ask you to "assist in an investigation" you better have your lawyer with you.
It’s very interesting how people can be cynical about the police when they don’t need them. I can understand being guilty and lawyering up. And I’m sure most of us agree on that issue. What I can’t understand is, you’re innocent, you are in love with the dead person, and you don’t even have the common courtesy to tell her parents how you drove for days with your phone and not call. Just forget about the police for a moment. What is the problem with letting her family or your own family know that something happened? Apparently the police are just out to intimidate people, unless it’s your child that’s been dead…then you want answers right?
Jaytee said:
It’s very interesting how people can be cynical about the police when they don’t need them. I can understand being guilty and lawyering up. And I’m sure most of us agree on that issue. What I can’t understand is, you’re innocent, you are in love with the dead person, and you don’t even have the common courtesy to tell her parents how you drove for days with your phone and not call. Just forget about the police for a moment. What is the problem with letting her family or your own family know that something happened? Apparently the police are just out to intimidate people, unless it’s your child that’s been dead…then you want answers right?
Yes, I’m a terrible monster because I don’t want to be sent to prison.
If you’re innocent - perhaps especially if you’re innocent - you need to talk to a lawyer before you talk to the police.
I’m not saying you can’t report a crime: Yes officer, that red car hit that blue car and just drove away. But if he starts asking questions about what you were doing or who you were with, you say nothing.
For this guy, of course he shouldn’t have driven to Florida after she disappeared. But he did. And once that happened, the right thing for him to do is STFU and talk to a lawyer.
Jaytee said:
How do you know she had terrible mental health issues? From what she said she said she has OCD, in fact both of them have it.
furthermore, if she killed herself why wouldn’t he call 911? Why drive for days on end back to Florida without calling anyone? I can’t believe people are actually rationalizing this.
Her family made a statement regarding it, the police officer on the scene said they both seemed to have been suffering from mental issues. There
Jaytee said:
It’s very interesting how people can be cynical about the police when they don’t need them. I can understand being guilty and lawyering up. And I’m sure most of us agree on that issue. What I can’t understand is, you’re innocent, you are in love with the dead person, and you don’t even have the common courtesy to tell her parents how you drove for days with your phone and not call. Just forget about the police for a moment. What is the problem with letting her family or your own family know that something happened? Apparently the police are just out to intimidate people, unless it’s your child that’s been dead…then you want answers right?
Its not about not appreciating the police. The police have Suprme Court permission to lie to you about evidence they have or don't have.
Did anyone ever hear about the Central Park 5?
Then it reminds me of when I was teaching Sociology in New Providence H.S. I invited Captain Frankel of the Union County prosecutor's office to address the class. Responding to a student's question, his advice to the class was to not answer questions or participate in any discussion with cops if you are a suspect.
I don't think he had anything against cops.
ml1 said:
I seem to remember a footnote in a Supreme Court decision where Justice Douglas quoted the Talmud as sayin that no one should be convicted of murder solely on that person's confession because people have a "death wish".
I remember an episode of "Homicide" where South Orange resident Andre Braugher playing a police Sargent showed how he could talk in innocent person into confessing to a crime.
Have I watched too many Law & Order reruns, or will they be able to “ping” his phone history and know where he was and when? (I don’t want to automatically pin guilt on the ex-fiancé, but it’s awfully shady that he arrived home with her vehicle. Doesn’t make sense she would have handed it over and meant to leave herself stranded thousands of miles from home.)
drummerboy said:
Can someone explain to me why it would be a bad thing to talk to the police of you're innocent?
Is this a serious question?
This shared on FB (author is a NY times journalist it seems?) was pretty eye-opening to me.
shh said:
This shared on FB (author is a NY times journalist it seems?) was pretty eye-opening to me.
This is exactly what I thought. He is a narcissist. I’m wondering if he was a black man if the cops would have been so relaxed with him saying “she’s crazy”.
RobB said:
Yes, I’m a terrible monster because I don’t want to be sent to prison.
If you’re innocent - perhaps especially if you’re innocent - you need to talk to a lawyer before you talk to the police.
I’m not saying you can’t report a crime: Yes officer, that red car hit that blue car and just drove away. But if he starts asking questions about what you were doing or who you were with, you say nothing.For this guy, of course he shouldn’t have driven to Florida after she disappeared. But he did. And once that happened, the right thing for him to do is STFU and talk to a lawyer.
It’s this dumbass mentally of STFU that had the township posting a $50,000 reward for information after the killing of mousa. Everyone just STFU, you teach your children this? Ridiculous people
Jaytee said:
It’s this dumbass mentally of STFU that had the township posting a $50,000 reward for information after the killing of mousa. Everyone just STFU, you teach your children this? Ridiculous people
Most definitely not a dumb mentality.. Unfortunately this is real life not the Boy Scouts and there are repercussions for not “STFU”
drummerboy said:
no, you guys are conflating the facts of this case with my original question. People in this thread made flat out, no conditions statements to not talk to the police even if you're innocent.
That's what I'm questioning. The facts of this case are irrelevant to my question.
Innocent or not, talking to police without a lawyer present is NOT a good idea. They are masters of manipulating and getting you to stumble on your “innocent” words. They want to close this case, an innocent bystander at this point has no business talking to police regarding this case .
BlueShirt88 said:
Innocent or not, talking to police without a lawyer present is NOT a good idea. They are masters of manipulating and getting you to stumble on your “innocent” words. They want to close this case, an innocent bystander at this point has no business talking to police regarding this case .
You are generalizing. If you are innocent you share pertinent information. If you’re guilty you get a lawyer and shut up. You go to trial, if found guilty you should get the maximum penalty. No plea bargain for obstruction. Period!
Then you can STFU all you want in prison.
Jaytee said:
yahooyahoo said:
Is this a serious question?
Of course it is.!
Does that answer your question yahoo?
Look if you're a police suspect, and you're innocent, of course get a lawyer.
But sometimes you're a witness - and in most cases then, you don't need a lawyer.
You can parse and dissect these two situations all you want. Have at it. But to unconditionally say "if you're innocent, don't speak to the police" is goofy. And that's what was said in this thread. More than once.
Jaytee said:
BlueShirt88 said:
Innocent or not, talking to police without a lawyer present is NOT a good idea. They are masters of manipulating and getting you to stumble on your “innocent” words. They want to close this case, an innocent bystander at this point has no business talking to police regarding this case .
You are generalizing. If you are innocent you share pertinent information. If you’re guilty you get a lawyer and shut up. You go to trial, if found guilty you should get the maximum penalty. No plea bargain for obstruction. Period!
Then you can STFU all you want in prison.
You’re approaching this from a position of privilege. This mentality is the reason 25% of those cleared by the Innocence Project had actually confessed. The police are skilled at extracting damning statements. They do it all day - every day - you and I don’t stand a chance.
I’m an upper middle class white guy and the best interaction I’ve ever had with a cop has been neutral. Never good. And now I’m supposed to help them solve a crime that I didn’t commit where I’m the only suspect? Oh they just want to get to the truth. Get out of here. You can wait a couple hours until I talk to a lawyer.
And we need to post a reward for information about crime, especially in the black community, because the community doesn’t trust the police. Take from that what you like.
BlueShirt88 said:
Jaytee said:
It’s this dumbass mentally of STFU that had the township posting a $50,000 reward for information after the killing of mousa. Everyone just STFU, you teach your children this? Ridiculous people
Most definitely not a dumb mentality.. Unfortunately this is real life not the Boy Scouts and there are repercussions for not “STFU”
Maybe decades of corruption and abuse by police departments all over the country have led to the place where we are today.
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Nobody is rationalizing anything. He almost certainly killed her. But there’s at least a chance he didn’t - and in that case he’d be crazy to talk to the police. It can only hurt his case.
If he did kill her, he’d be crazy to talk to the police. It can only hurt his case.