FOR THOSE ACTUALLY INTERESTED IN POLITICS
nan said:
No, I was reading the New Yorker this morning, in fact and enjoying some of their comments on censorship. I have never said to stop reading/watching MSM. What I say over and over is that you should always be a skeptic and not get your news from one source.
Did any of The New Yorker’s comments on censorship challenge your current thinking?
Klinker said:
drummerboy said:"The wrong history"
Klinker said:Those most doomed to repeat it are the people who "learn" the wrong history.
Those who do not learn (from) history are doomed to repeat it
Like you, Nan and the other Hillary/DNC conspiracists.
A Trumpkin concept if ever I saw one.
really?
You think all versions of history are true?
Interesting approach to life.
drummerboy said:
Klinker said:really?
drummerboy said:"The wrong history"
Klinker said:Those most doomed to repeat it are the people who "learn" the wrong history.
Those who do not learn (from) history are doomed to repeat it
Like you, Nan and the other Hillary/DNC conspiracists.
A Trumpkin concept if ever I saw one.
You think all versions of history are true?
Interesting approach to life.
No, I think you and your fellow Clintonites are dismissing the history you find inconvenient for you oh so convenient narrative. For heavens sake, don't pay attention to what actually happened, that is the "wrong history".....
Just do the right thing and take a little responsibility for your own part in this debacle.
nan said:
I do think the MSM has turned this into an obsessive new McCarthyism, and distorted all things Russia to evil beyond reality. And that started with the Democrats trying to cover for their stunning loss, and those that want to vilify Russia for possible regime change (like Dave's friend, Gary Kasparov).
nan said:
I have never said to stop reading/watching MSM.
So you are telling us to that it's ok to watch the MSM - just be aware that they have "turned this into an obsessive new McCarthyism, and distorted all things Russia to evil beyond reality".
Can you point to one MSM news story that distorts all things Russia to evil beyond reality? Maybe something on fake news http://www.cnn.com ?
LOST said:
jimmurphy said:Thank you. And your post is spot on!
Clinton screwed up. Bernie was unelectable outside the Northeast and California. Clinton ignored the white working class. Voting for Stein was a mistake. The progressives have some great ideas. War is bad and getting the people to understand that we do not have to invest so much is the military is key! Black lives Matter! Patriotism isn’t wrong. God forbid, but maybe we need to look at tariff levels across nations and see if they make sense. Maybe we do more than our fair share for the U.N.
We do need to invest more in infrastructure. Et cetera, et cetera.
I applaud Lost for starting it.
It appears that you and I are just talking to each other.
LOST said:
LOST said:It appears that you and I are just talking to each other.
jimmurphy said:Thank you. And your post is spot on!
Clinton screwed up. Bernie was unelectable outside the Northeast and California. Clinton ignored the white working class. Voting for Stein was a mistake. The progressives have some great ideas. War is bad and getting the people to understand that we do not have to invest so much is the military is key! Black lives Matter! Patriotism isn’t wrong. God forbid, but maybe we need to look at tariff levels across nations and see if they make sense. Maybe we do more than our fair share for the U.N.
We do need to invest more in infrastructure. Et cetera, et cetera.
I applaud Lost for starting it.
I’m with you, esp on a stack of other political questions and ethical issues.
jamie said:
nan said:
I do think the MSM has turned this into an obsessive new McCarthyism, and distorted all things Russia to evil beyond reality. And that started with the Democrats trying to cover for their stunning loss, and those that want to vilify Russia for possible regime change (like Dave's friend, Gary Kasparov).
nan said:So you are telling us to that it's ok to watch the MSM - just be aware that they have "turned this into an obsessive new McCarthyism, and distorted all things Russia to evil beyond reality".
I have never said to stop reading/watching MSM.
Can you point to one MSM news story that distorts all things Russia to evil beyond reality? Maybe something on fake news http://www.cnn.com ?
Watch Russiagate Rachel any day of the week.
DaveSchmidt said:
nan said:Did any of The New Yorker’s comments on censorship challenge your current thinking?
No, I was reading the New Yorker this morning, in fact and enjoying some of their comments on censorship. I have never said to stop reading/watching MSM. What I say over and over is that you should always be a skeptic and not get your news from one source.
No, it was Stephen Coll: The Digital Public Square
https://www.newyorker.com/podcast/comment/the-digital-public-square
He did make a strange comment, "Russia's state-directed interference was intended to help elect Donald Trump, according to American intelligence agencies."
I was thinking I did not agree with that and then I realized this guy had written a book on the CIA and probably did not think so either. But, I was not sure where he was going with the essay, but in the end he said, ". . .it is sometimes necessary to defend the rights of awful speakers, for the sake of principles that may help a free and diverse society renew itself."
Also, found out the Met is having a huge Delacroix show starting in September, and they already have a Delacroix drawing show, so I'm putting that on my calendar.
Some very interesting things going on in NZ and in Tonga right now, worth keeping a weather-eye out over the next few weeks.
And if Turnbull survives today, and Dutton doesn’t fiddle his connection to his wife and her business interests (so his parliamentary eligibility is clear), Australia will be heading to a federal by-election that will determine if the LNP remain in government, and if we stay with the Paris Agreement club.
I truly cannot believe that this is my country of birth, the country that now gives a fortune to a small unknown ‘charity’ that didn’t ask for it, to help destroy the Great Barrier Reef (pretending to save it, while miners pollute it, plundering protected tribal wilderness inland) and continuing to deny the rights of ‘non-whites’ (indigenous, and refugees).
LOST said:
LOST said:It appears that you and I are just talking to each other.
jimmurphy said:Thank you. And your post is spot on!
Clinton screwed up. Bernie was unelectable outside the Northeast and California. Clinton ignored the white working class. Voting for Stein was a mistake. The progressives have some great ideas. War is bad and getting the people to understand that we do not have to invest so much is the military is key! Black lives Matter! Patriotism isn’t wrong. God forbid, but maybe we need to look at tariff levels across nations and see if they make sense. Maybe we do more than our fair share for the U.N.
We do need to invest more in infrastructure. Et cetera, et cetera.
I applaud Lost for starting it.
OK, How's this?
I've been reading in the dreaded MSM that Democrats in many red and purple states are downplaying their party credentials and emphasizing those points where they agree with some of the moderate voters - to good effect. Likewise, I've observed that Ocasio-Cortez has appealed to the much more liberal voters in her district and promoted a more progressive agenda, resulting in her big primary win.
Is there anything wrong with this? Is there any possibility that these politicians are being just that _ politicians?
Nan and Paul, do you fault the centrist positions in Pennsylvania, for example?
Sbenois and DB, do you recognize that Ocasio-Cortez was pretty smart to appeal to her district the way she did?
How do we get these camps to converge?
Klinker said:
drummerboy said:No, I think you and your fellow Clintonites are dismissing the history you find inconvenient for you oh so convenient narrative. For heavens sake, don't pay attention to what actually happened, that is the "wrong history".....
Klinker said:really?
drummerboy said:"The wrong history"
Klinker said:Those most doomed to repeat it are the people who "learn" the wrong history.
Those who do not learn (from) history are doomed to repeat it
Like you, Nan and the other Hillary/DNC conspiracists.
A Trumpkin concept if ever I saw one.
You think all versions of history are true?
Interesting approach to life.
yeah. ok. you're wrong. You have no evidence, tons of projection and conjecture.
Good luck with that.
drummerboy said:
yeah. ok. you're wrong. You have no evidence, tons of projection and conjecture.
Good luck with that.
Ummm..... I'm not even sure what you are challenging? The idea that, after her 2008 defeat, the Clinton machine used coercion and threats to clear the field for 2016, with the result that the party was saddled with an incredibly weak candidate? That is pretty well documented in the mainstream media.
joanne said:
Some very interesting things going on in NZ and in Tonga right now, worth keeping a weather-eye out over the next few weeks.
And if Turnbull survives today, and Dutton doesn’t fiddle his connection to his wife and her business interests (so his parliamentary eligibility is clear), Australia will be heading to a federal by-election that will determine if the LNP remain in government, and if we stay with the Paris Agreement club.
I truly cannot believe that this is my country of birth, the country that now gives a fortune to a small unknown ‘charity’ that didn’t ask for it, to help destroy the Great Barrier Reef (pretending to save it, while miners pollute it, plundering protected tribal wilderness inland) and continuing to deny the rights of ‘non-whites’ (indigenous, and refugees).
It's odd how the direction of the political wind can often be so global -- Trump felt like a shock, but from another perspective he seems to fit in with a larger global trend of liberal democracies taking a sharp rightward (and especially nativist) turn.
For me a large part of the shock was the sobering proof that the US really isn't exceptional, just another country -- after watching Berlusconi in Italy and Erdogan in Turkey, etc, realizing that we were just as vulnerable. I mean, I already _knew_ that, but the gap between knowing and believing hit me pretty hard on election night. It felt like a pretty large blow to the national ego, tbh.
Klinker said:
drummerboy said:Ummm..... I'm not even sure what you are challenging? The idea that, after her 2008 defeat, the Clinton machine used coercion and threats to clear the field for 2016, with the result that the party was saddled with an incredibly weak candidate? That is pretty well documented in the mainstream media.
yeah. ok. you're wrong. You have no evidence, tons of projection and conjecture.
Good luck with that.
You're in dreamland.
Who the hell was a stronger candidate than Clinton? Sanders aside, since he apparently didn't get the message to clear the field.
Who was coerced, and under what threats?
What miracle Democrat was prevented from gracing us with their Presidency?
And if you're going to call Hillary an "incredibly" weak candidate, there's really no reason to take anything you say seriously on the subject of politics again.
sbenois said:
Couldn't give a **** what you think.
Sbenois still mad that Klinker nailed him.
drummerboy said:
Klinker said:You're in dreamland.
drummerboy said:Ummm..... I'm not even sure what you are challenging? The idea that, after her 2008 defeat, the Clinton machine used coercion and threats to clear the field for 2016, with the result that the party was saddled with an incredibly weak candidate? That is pretty well documented in the mainstream media.
yeah. ok. you're wrong. You have no evidence, tons of projection and conjecture.
Good luck with that.
Who the hell was a stronger candidate than Clinton? Sanders aside, since he apparently didn't get the message to clear the field.
Who was coerced, and under what threats?
What miracle Democrat was prevented from gracing us with their Presidency?
And if you're going to call Hillary an "incredibly" weak candidate, there's really no reason to take anything you say seriously on the subject of politics again.
Why did you support Bernie instead of Hillary?
drummerboy said:And if you're going to call Hillary an "incredibly" weak candidate, there's really no reason to take anything you say seriously on the subject of politics again.
I'm not "calling" her anything. She lost to a fat, incontinent, orange joke. It doesn't get weaker than that. Alex Torpey could have beaten Trump.
paulsurovell said:
sbenois said:Sbenois still mad that Klinker nailed him.
Couldn't give a **** what you think.
Nice try.
Have you heard?? Spill was called, Turnbull survived by 7 votes, Dutton has resigned from Home Affairs and front bench (which leaves him free to challenge again as early as Thursday, if his eligibility status isn't resolved), and treasurer Scott Morrison (also regarded as a right-wing nut) is acting in Home Affairs.
https://www.theguardian.com/au
Everything is changing nearly every 20 mins. We might have federal elections in October instead of next year.
Klinker said:
drummerboy said:And if you're going to call Hillary an "incredibly" weak candidate, there's really no reason to take anything you say seriously on the subject of politics again.I'm not "calling" her anything. She lost to a fat, incontinent, orange joke. It doesn't get weaker than that. Alex Torpey could have beaten Trump.
You can just say "I give up. I'm wrong'.
paulsurovell said:
drummerboy said:Why did you support Bernie instead of Hillary?
Klinker said:You're in dreamland.
drummerboy said:Ummm..... I'm not even sure what you are challenging? The idea that, after her 2008 defeat, the Clinton machine used coercion and threats to clear the field for 2016, with the result that the party was saddled with an incredibly weak candidate? That is pretty well documented in the mainstream media.
yeah. ok. you're wrong. You have no evidence, tons of projection and conjecture.
Good luck with that.
Who the hell was a stronger candidate than Clinton? Sanders aside, since he apparently didn't get the message to clear the field.
Who was coerced, and under what threats?
What miracle Democrat was prevented from gracing us with their Presidency?
And if you're going to call Hillary an "incredibly" weak candidate, there's really no reason to take anything you say seriously on the subject of politics again.
I always support the leftiest Dem during the primaries.
I certainly didn't support him because I thought Hillary was weak.
She's baaaaack......!
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/20/politics/clinton-dnc-fundraisers/index.html
Wonder if the "agreement" about control over party funds is still in effect?
would that be enough, this time round for over there? If everything else went smoothly?
For months now, all we’ve been hearing is how badly scarred you all are and how it’s going to take so much more for you all to leaden how to rebuild communities and reforge trust, rewrite the social contracts...
drummerboy said:You can just say "I give up. I'm wrong'.
You certainly can.
Klinker said:
drummerboy said:You certainly can.
You can just say "I give up. I'm wrong'.
You know , you can support your case pretty easily.
Just name a Dem presidential contender that was either coerced or threatened by the "Clinton machine" into not running.
Just one.
You can always ask nan for help. 
joanne said:
Some very interesting things going on in NZ and in Tonga right now, worth keeping a weather-eye out over the next few weeks.
And if Turnbull survives today, and Dutton doesn’t fiddle his connection to his wife and her business interests (so his parliamentary eligibility is clear), Australia will be heading to a federal by-election that will determine if the LNP remain in government, and if we stay with the Paris Agreement club.
I truly cannot believe that this is my country of birth, the country that now gives a fortune to a small unknown ‘charity’ that didn’t ask for it, to help destroy the Great Barrier Reef (pretending to save it, while miners pollute it, plundering protected tribal wilderness inland) and continuing to deny the rights of ‘non-whites’ (indigenous, and refugees).
We do not know enough about your Politics to follow this. Is Turnball your PM? Who is Dutton? What is LNP and Paris Agreement Club. Is the latter what Trump pulled us out of?
Klinker said:
drummerboy said:And if you're going to call Hillary an "incredibly" weak candidate, there's really no reason to take anything you say seriously on the subject of politics again.I'm not "calling" her anything. She lost to a fat, incontinent, orange joke. It doesn't get weaker than that. Alex Torpey could have beaten Trump.
But JEB Bush, Chris Christie, Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz could not. Too bad Alex didn't run in the GOP primaries.
joanne said:
I truly cannot believe that this is my country of birth, the country that now gives a fortune to a small unknown ‘charity’ that didn’t ask for it, to help destroy the Great Barrier Reef (pretending to save it, while miners pollute it, plundering protected tribal wilderness inland) and continuing to deny the rights of ‘non-whites’ (indigenous, and refugees).
Sounds like America!
"The wrong history"
A Trumpkin concept if ever I saw one.