Finally - an end to the Afghan war?

Boy do I hate the Taliban.

STANV said:

 Biden is proving that he is not, in Klinker's words, "too old too conservative and too stupid".

If he decides to run for re-election any primary challenge would be foolish and would weaken the Democratic nominee as happened in 1980 when Kennedy challenged Carter from the left and elected Reagan.

Of course if Biden does not seek re-election the strongest contender for the nomination will be Harris. The MAGA crowd said she was "more liberal than Bernie Sanders". Will the US elect a mixed race woman, daughter of immigrants from India and the West Indies. I would certainly like to live to see that.

 Agree. I'm happy with Biden and most of us certainly supported other candidates, with Warren a distinct favorite. But his temperament fits the moment and I personally never questioned his intelligence. He is not an Obama style intellectual but he knows foreign and domestic issues from years of experience. With a country so extremely polarized, I thought he was a pretty safe bet.

I would definitely open a bottle of champagne to toast a Harris win if she is the next contender, but if she were challenged by Warren, I'd have to give it plenty of thought. It's a dilemma that I would love to experience.

I think if you set any traditional politician next to Trump, they are going to shine.  We saw this with the nostalgia for the Bush Administration during the darkest days of the Trump regime.  Biden is adequate (which makes him a 10,000% improvement).  We could do better.

That said, for the time being, I am not going to let the better be the enemy of the adequate.

Go Team Biden!!!!

You can always do better and you can certainly always imagine better.

It's a Question of what is possible.

I would not have said this 50 years ago when I considered McGovern too conservative.

Klinker said:

I think if you set any traditional politician next to Trump, they are going to shine.  We saw this with the nostalgia for the Bush Administration during the darkest days of the Trump regime.  Biden is adequate (which makes him a 10,000% improvement).  We could do better.

 Sure we can but when presented with a wide range of female candidates Progressive to Moderate, the Dems couldn't find one that they were willing to back. I can't blame it all on Hillary's loss. I blame it on the fact that most Dems are not that Progressive.

I wind up accepting the win by the standards that you illustrate, they shine by comparison.

Morganna said:

 Sure we can but when presented with a wide range of female candidates Progressive to Moderate, the Dems couldn't find one that they were willing to back. I can't blame it all on Hillary's loss. I blame it on the fact that most Dems are not that Progressive.

I wind up accepting the win by the standards that you illustrate, they shine by comparison.

 I'm with you entirely.  Warren's candidacy  appealed to me in a way that I had not previously experienced.  

I am sure we all had our favorite candidates, but when it came to voters in the Democratic primaries, they preferred Biden, and it wasn't even close. Same for general election (7 million votes margin). That's democracy folks.

basil said:

I am sure we all had our favorite candidates, but when it came to voters in the Democratic primaries, they preferred Biden, and it wasn't even close. Same for general election (7 million votes margin). That's democracy folks.

 Actually, in the days in which there was still a competitive race, they OVERWHELMINGLY preferred someone else.  Biden got the nomination because he was the fourth or fifth choice of a lot of voters.  For those of us who placed him 21st out of a field of 20, that was quite a disappointment.  That said, we did our duty, held our noses and voted for the proverbial moldy ham sandwich with a D next to his name.

I am available to accept your thanks at your leisure.

Klinker said:

 Actually, in the days in which there was still a competitive race, they OVERWHELMINGLY preferred someone else. 

The field was overwhelmingly preferred to any individual candidate. Aside from that: 

DaveSchmidt said:

Klinker said:

 Actually, in the days in which there was still a competitive race, they OVERWHELMINGLY preferred someone else. 

The field was overwhelmingly preferred to any individual candidate. Aside from that: 

 you forgot to supply a magnifying glass.

drummerboy said:

 you forgot to supply a magnifying glass.

It's in the other room, on top of the card catalog. 

DaveSchmidt said:

drummerboy said:

 you forgot to supply a magnifying glass.

It's in the other room, on top of the card catalog. 

 I'll have to google the location.

drummerboy said:

 I'll have to google the location.

That line is going to kill at the conference. 

Klinker said:

basil said:

I am sure we all had our favorite candidates, but when it came to voters in the Democratic primaries, they preferred Biden, and it wasn't even close. Same for general election (7 million votes margin). That's democracy folks.

 Actually, in the days in which there was still a competitive race, they OVERWHELMINGLY preferred someone else.  Biden got the nomination because he was the fourth or fifth choice of a lot of voters.  For those of us who placed him 21st out of a field of 20, that was quite a disappointment.  That said, we did our duty, held our noses and voted for the proverbial moldy ham sandwich with a D next to his name.

I am available to accept your thanks at your leisure.

So you are saying Biden stole the primaries too? Not just the general election? That guy is good.

basil said:

So you are saying Biden stole the primaries too? Not just the general election? That guy is good.

 Not at all.  What I am saying is that Biden's selection does not represent some sort of party wide Democratic zeitgeist.  The vast majority of Dems settled for Biden.

For some of us, settling for Biden was.....challenging.  And yet, we turned out and voted for the guy on election day because the one thing we could all agree on was the fact that a moldy ham sandwich with a D next to its name was preferable to  Trump.

Again, I am available to receive your thanks and gratitude for that at whatever time might be convenient for you.  Given your (apparently) busy schedule, I would settle for you just not pitching at me every time Biden tosses another campaign promise made to the progressives under the bus.

Imagine the pickle we would be in if Bernie Sanders started acting like that spoiled brat from West Virginia.

Klinker said:

basil said:

So you are saying Biden stole the primaries too? Not just the general election? That guy is good.

 Not at all.  What I am saying is that Biden's selection does not represent some sort of party wide Democratic zeitgeist.  The vast majority of Dems settled for Biden.

For some of us, settling for Biden was.....challenging.  And yet, we turned out and voted for the guy on election day because the one thing we could all agree on was the fact that a moldy ham sandwich with a D next to its name was preferable to  Trump.

Apparently, more democrats were willing to "settle" for Biden than to "settle" for Warren, or any other candidate. By a lot.

basil said:

Apparently, more democrats were willing to "settle" for Biden than to "settle" for Warren, or any other candidate. By a lot.

 Indeed.  If you want to round that up to a zeitgeist, go for it but don't expect me to take you seriously. In the end, I think a lot more Americans voted for "Not Trump" than voted for Joe Biden.

I know I did, you ungrateful so and so.

Klinker said:

basil said:

Apparently, more democrats were willing to "settle" for Biden than to "settle" for Warren, or any other candidate. By a lot.

 Indeed.  If you want to round that up to a zeitgeist, go for it but don't expect me to take you seriously. In the end, I think a lot more Americans voted for "Not Trump" than voted for Joe Biden.

I know I did, you ungrateful so and so.

All candidates running in the democratic primary were "not trump". Primary voters wanted Biden to become President. Not Warren, nor anyone else. And as I said before, it wasn't even close.

Klinker said:

 Actually, in the days in which there was still a competitive race, they OVERWHELMINGLY preferred someone else.  ...

I guess the voters in South Carolina didn't get that memo. 

Such hubris!  

You all can lie to yourselves until the cows come home but, even if Biden had won the primaries with every Democratic vote except mine, I still would not feel constrained from criticizing him when he conveniently forgets campaign promises made to progressives or when he throws our allies under the bus.

And Basil, I am still waiting  for you to thank me for voting for a candidate who I found to be both far too conservative and personally distasteful. I cannot help but wonder whether you "moderates" (conservatives) would do the same if it was a progressive candidate on the ballot.

Klinker said:

And Basil, I am still waiting  for you to thank me for voting for a candidate who I found to be both far too conservative and personally distasteful. I cannot help but wonder whether you "moderates" (conservatives) would do the same if it was a progressive candidate on the ballot.

No participation trophies for not enabling Trump. 

You might want to rethink that because voting for “moderates” just gets harder every time. If there aren’t going to be any trophies, I might not be able to keep it going.

The people who considered themselves "too liberal" to vote for Biden in order to defeat Trump are indistinguishable from sociopaths.

nohero said:

The people who considered themselves "too liberal" to vote for Biden in order to defeat Trump are indistinguishable from sociopaths.

I don’t know anyone* who didn’t vote AGAINST Trump. Not too many people who voted FOR Biden either.  

*other than the deplorables. 

Klinker said:

I don’t know anyone* who didn’t vote AGAINST Trump. Not too many people who voted FOR Biden either.  

*other than the deplorables. 

 It's a waste of time to engage in a discussion about "Did they vote FOR that guy or just AGAINST the other guy?" People voted for the one they voted for.  Period.  Full stop.

You are welcome. 

Biden is doing a lot better than his critics and even some of his supporters thought he would do.

Can you imagine any other President or even any other candidate giving the press conference Biden gave last night?

One of the reasons given for not leaving Vietnam was that there would be a "blood bath" of South Vietnamese when the US left.    I do not recall that this blood bath happened to any significant amount.  I did work with a Vietnamese "boat people" refugee.  I also knew a family from Iraq that had to escape from Saddam.   

I am not at all optimistic about what the Taliban will do to government soldiers, police and other civilians, and anyone who was seen as helping the west.  Did the Taliban take revenge on those who supported Russia three decades ago?  So, these people will need to leave and become refugees in order to simply stay alive.  It would be interesting to know how many people in the US are descendants of immigrants who came to the US to escape wars in Europe, Africa, and Asia.  I know one family from Liberia who came to escape death from one of their civil wars.