Employer Provided Insurance: THIRTY THREE MILLION Americans Won't Be Worrying About Losing It Anymore 
nohero said:
- which I why I posted the link to Biden's (the other candidate) proposal.
A proposal that, while merely disappointing in October, is utterly inadequate for April. How do we move forward, given the hand we have been dealt?
nan said:
Good luck with that.
So, what's your plan? Just roll over and let the Trump vultures eat your liver? Sit around here and say "I told you so" until these guys hate you more than they hate Bernie (is such a thing is even possible)?
You know, I don't think there are many posters here that really hate Bernie. They just don't think he was a good candidate.
No one here shows the vitriol towards Bernie that Nan shows against... well, pretty much anyone that's not Bernie (or Tulsi).
Klinker said:
That said, I was hoping for more of a discussion of policy than personality. You all hate Bernie while Nan and many others hate Biden. If we accept that fact, is it possible to move beyond it?
For the record, I do not hate Bernie. I do think his heart is in the right place, but I also think he is a bit of an opportunist, and does not have realistic, implementable ideas. But, like all Democratic once-hopefuls, he is a million times better than Trump or any other GOP President.
Having said that, I am getting soooooooo bored about this he-said-she-said Bernie vs Biden crap. Biden is going to be the nominee, I don't think anyone should continue to gloat over that, and neither should anyone constantly throw a hissy-fit over that.
I'll just repeat that it's dismaying to me that Biden seems to be clinging to his old ideas on health care when the world has just undergone cataclysmic, generational change. I don't expect him to have another entire plan ready to roll out. But would it kill him to say the world has changed very suddenly and he needs to rethink his ideas on health care to adapt to a previously unforeseen future?
nohero said:
Ms. Nan, that's the exact same interview, and the exact same quote, that's already been discussed.
Yes, I know. That's why I posted it. Glad you are watching.
basil said:
For the record, I do not hate Bernie. I do think his heart is in the right place, but I also think he is a bit of an opportunist, and does not have realistic, implementable ideas. But, like all Democratic once-hopefuls, he is a million times better than Trump or any other GOP President.
Having said that, I am getting soooooooo bored about this he-said-she-said Bernie vs Biden crap. Biden is going to be the nominee, I don't think anyone should continue to gloat over that, and neither should anyone constantly throw a hissy-fit over that.
OK, and then no hissy-fit when he loses. Do not blame this on Bernie. You have been warned. I'm not saying Biden can't win--Trump is doing a terrible job with this pandemic, but there are so many red flags, I would not be confident. Biden is doing worse than HIllary did at this point and she had a higher "enthusiasm" rating. Biden's is 24%--lowest in decades.
Biden offers nothing in terms of healthcare except to continue the same horrible employment-dependent system that is expected to increase by 40%. 3.3 million have just lost their jobs and probably their insurance. Now is the time to make a huge push for Medicare for All, which this pandemic shows we need. It's unconscionable that the corporate funded Biden rejects it out of hand.
I don't know how anyone, including nohero, can vote for anyone other than Bernie. I know he has a slim chance, but at least you can feel you tried.
nan said:
I don't know how anyone, including nohero, can vote for anyone other than Bernie. I know he has a slim chance, but at least you can feel you tried.
In the primaries you should vote for whoever you feel should win, as long as you vote for the eventual Democratic party nominee in the GE. Will you?
drummerboy said:
You know, I don't think there are many posters here that really hate Bernie. They just don't think he was a good candidate.
No one here shows the vitriol towards Bernie that Nan shows against... well, pretty much anyone that's not Bernie (or Tulsi).
There are some posters here who hate Bernie so much I don't think they would vote for him in the general. I do have lots of anger against the Democratic establishment who I consider corrupt and partially responsible for the rise of Trump and disaster that is our healthcare system and failing planet. I think it's funny when people say I reject all these other candidates and only like Bernie. To me, all those other candidates were ONE candidate that came in different colors and ages and stages, etc. They were all traditional establishment candidates who were supported by the corporations and Wall Street and only sold to the American people through huge propaganda campaigns in the mainstream media.
None of those candidates were actually going to do anything for ordinary people and they would continue the horror that is our healthcare system and the destruction that is our planet and they would also never stop the endless wars and regime change. They would never fundamentally change wealth inequality or throw anything but crumbs to the working class and poor. Listening to people discuss these candidates always seems to focus on identity politics and the cult of the personality. There is rarely a focus on history, platform, funding and strategy. When you compare candidates based on that, it's clear why Bernie comes out head and shoulders above the others.
nan said:
There are some posters here who hate Bernie so much I don't think they would vote for him in the general.
How 'bout naming them? Seems to me that almost ALL of us who have opposed Bernie ALL agreed that we would support him if he won the nomination. So, I guess this is just another of YOUR lies !
Dennis_Seelbach said:
How 'bout naming them? Seems to me that almost ALL of us who have opposed Bernie ALL agreed that we would support him if he won the nomination. So, I guess this is just another of YOUR lies !
Have not heard it from sbenois or nohero. And what lie? I said this is what I think. I did not say that these individuals stated that they would not vote for Bernie. But, you are missing the main topic which is hatred of Bernie so you qualify.
ml1 said:
I'll just repeat that it's dismaying to me that Biden seems to be clinging to his old ideas on health care when the world has just undergone cataclysmic, generational change. I don't expect him to have another entire plan ready to roll out. But would it kill him to say the world has changed very suddenly and he needs to rethink his ideas on health care to adapt to a previously unforeseen future?
Well, I think he's afraid because being for M4A brings up the bugaboo of people losing their wonderful private insurance, which, unfortunately, much of the electorate is fearful of.
To say nothing of the box he's painted himself into with the zillion-gazillion cost.
He has no choice before the election. Be hopeful that maybe he'll change after he's elected.
drummerboy said:
Well, I think he's afraid because being for M4A brings up the bugaboo of people losing their wonderful private insurance, which, unfortunately, much of the electorate is fearful of.
To say nothing of the box he's painted himself into with the zillion-gazillion cost.
He has no choice before the election. Be hopeful that maybe he'll change after he's elected.
In exit polls from recent primaries, something like 70% of people were favorable about Medicare for All. It's very popular. Also, 3.3 million people just lost their "wonderful private insurance" and we might end up with 30% unemployment. People want Medicare for All. This pandemic exposes the total imoral basis of our for profit healthcare system. Biden will NEVER be for single payer because he's paid to be against it.
drummerboy said:
Well, I think he's afraid because being for M4A brings up the bugaboo of people losing their wonderful private insurance, which, unfortunately, much of the electorate is fearful of.
To say nothing of the box he's painted himself into with the zillion-gazillion cost.
He has no choice before the election. Be hopeful that maybe he'll change after he's elected.
so the worst public health disaster in a century doesn't even make him pause? Pretty much confirms my concern about him. It's like he's the second most unsuited man in America to be our next president.
Each day that passes makes me more sad that our voters are too ******* stupid to have chosen Elizabeth Warren.
nan said:
Have not heard it from sbenois or nohero. And what lie? I said this is what I think. I did not say that these individuals stated that they would not vote for Bernie. But, you are missing the main topic which is hatred of Bernie so you qualify.
This is a straightforward, if trivial, example of why attention to facts matters, nan. It’s not a fact that the commenters you named wouldn’t vote for Sanders in November. Without that fact, your main topic — hatred of Sanders here — falls apart.
DaveSchmidt said:
This is a straightforward, if trivial, example of why attention to facts matters, nan. It’s not a fact that the commenters you named wouldn’t vote for Sanders in November. Without that fact, your main topic — hatred of Sanders here — falls apart.
Trivial. That's the word I was trying to think of the other day to describe what I felt was wrong with your approach. Trivial. Yup. No, I said nothing factually wrong. Do you not understand how usually writing works? You open with a strong line and then you build your argument to support that. But that would require the ability to see the big picture instead of just endless seemingly flawed trivial details taken out of context. Of course you will say I did not support my argument, but I did.
drummerboy said:
Well, I think he's afraid because being for M4A brings up the bugaboo of people losing their wonderful private insurance, which, unfortunately, much of the electorate is fearful of.
And that is the point of this thread. There are three million less of those people today. The number will be 6 million by the end of next week. If unemployment numbers hit the worst case scenario, there may be 100 million less by the end of summer.
The landscape has been profoundly changed. The Democrats, as a party, need to change their position to reflect that change.
nan said:
Trivial. That's the word I was trying to think of the other day to describe what I felt was wrong with your approach. Trivial.
You’re welcome.
ml1 said:
so the worst public health disaster in a century doesn't even make him pause? Pretty much confirms my concern about him. It's like he's the second most unsuited man in America to be our next president.
Each day that passes makes me more sad that our voters are too ******* stupid to have chosen Elizabeth Warren.
Warren messed up her campaign from the middle to the end. I think she hired too many ex-Hillary and Khive staffers who gave her bad advice. Also, that Medicare for All plan was atrocious and seemed disingenuous. Her foreign policy was weak and too supportive of the establishment. She seemed less trustworthy and less truthful as the campaign went on. People were turned off. She had a great moment destroying Bloomberg, but she did not equal that in the subsequent debate.
I'm not saying this like Bernie made so many wonderful choices, because I'm very critical of him right now and the way the campaign is going. But, I don't think rejecting Warren, who turned out to be a huge dissapoint for so many is ....... stupid. She ultimately was not the Progressive she promised and her deep ties to the establishment, who did not value her but were happy to use her, underminded what should have been higher vote counts.
She could have dropped out and supported Bernie which she failed to do in both 2016 and 2020. That would have helped him against Biden and given him some chance for the progressive policies they both supported to win. instead she seems to have made some kind of deal with Biden and I guess we will see how that goes, but he will not be pushing Medicare for All or the Green New Deal. He will give a few crumbs out, like means tested tuition for people who are poor and wear green shorts on alternating Thursdays. Perhaps she thinks she is getting the VP slot and that would be a good one since Biden looks like he's going to keel over, but I still don't think he can win.
Nan, just checking, you ARE going to vote for the eventual Democratic party nominee, are you?
Klinker said:
drummerboy said:
Well, I think he's afraid because being for M4A brings up the bugaboo of people losing their wonderful private insurance, which, unfortunately, much of the electorate is fearful of.
And that is the point of this thread. There are three million less of those people today. The number will be 6 million by the end of next week. If unemployment numbers hit the worst case scenario, there may be 100 million less by the end of summer.
The landscape has been profoundly changed. The Democrats, as a party, need to change their position to reflect that change.
well, I think your numbers are way off. I'd like to see some stats on it, but I highly doubt that most of the people getting laid off have health insurance in the first place. At least in these beginning waves.
But you raise a good point. Maybe it will cause some people to realize the problem with their private insurance. America could use a good kick in the head.
ml1 said:
drummerboy said:
Well, I think he's afraid because being for M4A brings up the bugaboo of people losing their wonderful private insurance, which, unfortunately, much of the electorate is fearful of.
To say nothing of the box he's painted himself into with the zillion-gazillion cost.
He has no choice before the election. Be hopeful that maybe he'll change after he's elected.
so the worst public health disaster in a century doesn't even make him pause? Pretty much confirms my concern about him. It's like he's the second most unsuited man in America to be our next president.
Each day that passes makes me more sad that our voters are too ******* stupid to have chosen Elizabeth Warren.
Your statement above (bolded) undermines the notion of universal, adult sufferage.
RealityForAll said:
ml1 said:
drummerboy said:
Well, I think he's afraid because being for M4A brings up the bugaboo of people losing their wonderful private insurance, which, unfortunately, much of the electorate is fearful of.
To say nothing of the box he's painted himself into with the zillion-gazillion cost.
He has no choice before the election. Be hopeful that maybe he'll change after he's elected.
so the worst public health disaster in a century doesn't even make him pause? Pretty much confirms my concern about him. It's like he's the second most unsuited man in America to be our next president.
Each day that passes makes me more sad that our voters are too ******* stupid to have chosen Elizabeth Warren.
Your statement above (bolded) undermines the notion of universal, adult sufferage.
how so?
RealityForAll said:
Your statement above (bolded) undermines the notion of universal, adult sufferage.
your statement undermines the notion that everyone who reads posts on message boards is smart enough to understand them.
my statement, if it suggests anything, suggests that perhaps the reporting on political campaigns could be better and more focused on substantive issues instead of trivia.
drummerboy said:
RealityForAll said:
ml1 said:
drummerboy said:
Well, I think he's afraid because being for M4A brings up the bugaboo of people losing their wonderful private insurance, which, unfortunately, much of the electorate is fearful of.
To say nothing of the box he's painted himself into with the zillion-gazillion cost.
He has no choice before the election. Be hopeful that maybe he'll change after he's elected.
so the worst public health disaster in a century doesn't even make him pause? Pretty much confirms my concern about him. It's like he's the second most unsuited man in America to be our next president.
Each day that passes makes me more sad that our voters are too ******* stupid to have chosen Elizabeth Warren.
Your statement above (bolded) undermines the notion of universal, adult sufferage.
how so?
"too ******* stupid to have chosen Elizabeth Warren" implies that voters are incapable of assessing their own needs and wants and then electing the candidate(s) most likely to satisfy those needs and wants. A HuffPost article suggests voters should be tested on the platforms of various political parties before being allowed to vote. See: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/voter-test-europe-china_b_4776362 Huffpost article describes author's ideas on a voter fix.
drummerboy said:
well, I think your numbers are way off. I'd like to see some stats on it, but I highly doubt that most of the people getting laid off have health insurance in the first place. At least in these beginning waves.
But you raise a good point. Maybe it will cause some people to realize the problem with their private insurance. America could use a good kick in the head.
Also, the unemployment claims include furloughed workers who retain their health coverage during the furlough. As you added, the point still stands.
nan said:
Dennis_Seelbach said:
How 'bout naming them? Seems to me that almost ALL of us who have opposed Bernie ALL agreed that we would support him if he won the nomination. So, I guess this is just another of YOUR lies !
Have not heard it from sbenois or nohero. ...
DAMMIT.
I TOLD Sbenois to call Ms. Nan and let her know.
He's probably still goofing around in his basement, with his "pandemic mapper" or whatever he calls his repurposed tornado tracking set-up. You can't rely on that guy for anything.
RealityForAll said:
drummerboy said:
RealityForAll said:
ml1 said:
drummerboy said:
Well, I think he's afraid because being for M4A brings up the bugaboo of people losing their wonderful private insurance, which, unfortunately, much of the electorate is fearful of.
To say nothing of the box he's painted himself into with the zillion-gazillion cost.
He has no choice before the election. Be hopeful that maybe he'll change after he's elected.
so the worst public health disaster in a century doesn't even make him pause? Pretty much confirms my concern about him. It's like he's the second most unsuited man in America to be our next president.
Each day that passes makes me more sad that our voters are too ******* stupid to have chosen Elizabeth Warren.
Your statement above (bolded) undermines the notion of universal, adult sufferage.
how so?
"too ******* stupid to have chosen Elizabeth Warren" implies that voters are incapable of assessing their own needs and wants and then electing the candidate(s) most likely to satisfy those needs and wants. A HuffPost article suggests voters should be tested on the platforms of various political parties before being allowed to vote. See: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/voter-test-europe-china_b_4776362 Huffpost article describes author's ideas on a voter fix.
I still don't see how that undermines anything.
Millions of Americans clearly vote against their best economic interests every time they vote for a Republican. No one is saying that they should be prevented from voting, even though they'd be better off if they just stayed home..
RealityForAll said:
A HuffPost article suggests voters should be tested on the platforms of various political parties before being allowed to vote. See: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/voter-test-europe-china_b_4776362 Huffpost article describes author's ideas on a voter fix.
What a silly, inconsequential article. It’s hard for me to imagine why anyone thought it was worth sharing.
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Ms. Nan, that's the exact same interview, and the exact same quote, that's already been discussed.