Employer Provided Insurance: THIRTY THREE MILLION Americans Won't Be Worrying About Losing It Anymore 
RealityForAll said:
Watch the video of Mad Mike's steam powered rocket launch (where the parachutes fall off the rocket at launch). Apparently, it was Mad Mike's goal to reach a high enough apex to take pictures proving his flat earth theories. At a minimum, Mad Mike proved the dangers of rapid deceleration caused by lack of parachutes.
After his death, the Hughes' PR guy revealed that the whole Flat Earth thing was just a fund raising gimmick. The guy wanted to build and ride big rockets and needed cash to do it.
"We used flat Earth as a PR stunt... Flat Earth allowed us to get so much publicity that we kept going! I know he didn’t believe in flat Earth and it was a schtick"
RealityForAll said:
At a minimum, Mad Mike proved the dangers of rapid deceleration caused by lack of parachutes.
That is very funny actually
Updated the thread title to reflect the new numbers. Will the last American with employer provided insurance please toss Joe Biden's health care plan in the dumpster?
Klinker said:
Updated the thread title to reflect the new numbers. Will the last American with employer provided insurance please toss Joe Biden's health care plan in the dumpster?
I didn't think of that. The irony of the many who are afraid of losing their employer supplied plans opposing M4A. Where are they now?
BG9 said:
Klinker said:
Updated the thread title to reflect the new numbers. Will the last American with employer provided insurance please toss Joe Biden's health care plan in the dumpster?
I didn't think of that. The irony of the many who are afraid of losing their employer supplied plans opposing M4A. Where are they now?
I suspect that many (certainly me) of us felt that M4A was simply too big a lift to be enacted, and the effort to do so might very well set BACK the efforts to improve the system. It was NOT an endorsement of an employer-based insurance system. I still hold to that belief, although not as rigidly as I did 3 months ago.
Agree with Dennis.
Most of us here see M4A as the end goal but did not see it as politically viable this time around.
This virus may have changed that calculus.
The Depression allowed FDR to pass legislation that would have been unthinkable just a few years before. We just need to find our FDR.
Dennis_Seelbach said:
I suspect that many (certainly me) of us felt that M4A was simply too big a lift to be enacted, and the effort to do so might very well set BACK the efforts to improve the system. It was NOT an endorsement of an employer-based insurance system. I still hold to that belief, although not as rigidly as I did 3 months ago.
That is saying something. The egg is starting to crack. baby steps.
nan said:
Dennis_Seelbach said:
I suspect that many (certainly me) of us felt that M4A was simply too big a lift to be enacted, and the effort to do so might very well set BACK the efforts to improve the system. It was NOT an endorsement of an employer-based insurance system. I still hold to that belief, although not as rigidly as I did 3 months ago.
That is saying something. The egg is starting to crack. baby steps.
Don't get excited, I still think Bernie's a phony !
Dennis_Seelbach said:
Don't get excited, I still think Bernie's a phony !
I know. That's why I said baby steps. Progress was still made.
I posted this in the Jimmy Dore thread; I’m copying it here because the case may have come up in this discussion, too. I can’t remember.
nan said:
There was a 17 year old boy who died because he had not insurance and was refused treatment.
It turns out there wasn’t. Last Sunday, the California mayor who spread the word about the case posted this update on his Facebook page:
William, the 17-year-old boy, is the only person to die in the Antelope Valley from COVID 19, so far. We have learned more information about William’s death. His family did have health insurance. When the family called his HMO, they were (correctly) told to take him to the emergency room. There was some initial confusion, possibly from language difficulties about the status of health insurance, but the family always had insurance. His family did everything possible to protect William, but this disease is fast and deadly.
Here’s an article from Time about that update:
You Probably Read About an Uninsured Teen Who Died of COVID-19. The Truth Is More Complicated
Lastly, the young man’s death has been removed from the coronavirus tally for now, pending further investigation. He tested positive for the virus, but that may not be what killed him.
Klinker said:
I'm not sure what your point is.
I think his point is, that an often-repeated claim is not in fact true, so should be disregarded.
Klinker said:
I'm not sure what your point is.
I’m aware there are lots of people who separate trivial facts from big, important facts, and don’t really care to be bothered about the former. My update was for the other people.
(A supporter of M4A might very well respond that even the time that was needed to call the HMO may have been critical, and could have been avoided under M4A. That would be one way to account for the facts in this case. Misstating or disregarding the facts, however, does no argument any good, in my opinion.)
nohero said:
I think his point is, that an often-repeated claim is not in fact true, so should be disregarded.
This part of the story is true:
It’s true, after all, that urgent care clinics in this country can legally deny treatment to anyone who doesn’t have insurance. And it’s true that more than 27 million Americans are uninsured.
So that story was false, but it was used as an example for a real problem. It is likely true for others, not reported in the news. The reason this one got reported was because it involved a 17 year old.
DaveSchmidt said:
(A supporter of M4A might very well respond that even the time that was needed to call the HMO may have been critical, and could have been avoided under M4A. That would be one way to account for the facts in this case. Misstating or disregarding the facts, however, does no argument any good, in my opinion.)
that was what I was thinking. In no other developed country would anyone spend a minute calling their insurance provider to find out what they should do when they are sick.
I really don't understand.
Why would someone with an actual emergency, a heart attack or not being able to breath, call their HMO or insurance provider before going to the ER? Wouldn't they know to just make sure they had their insurance card with them and rush to the ER?
Isn't one of the most serious problems with so many people lacking health insurance that they end up using the ER as their primary healthcare provider.
If people without insurance know they can go to the ER why would people with insurance hesitate?
STANV said:
I really don't understand.
Why would someone with an actual emergency, a heart attack or not being able to breath, call their HMO or insurance provider before going to the ER? Wouldn't they know to just make sure they had their insurance card with them and rush to the ER?
Isn't one of the most serious problems with so many people lacking health insurance that they end up using the ER as their primary healthcare provider.
If people without insurance know they can go to the ER why would people with insurance hesitate?
No, you understand quite well.
STANV said:
I really don't understand.
Why would someone with an actual emergency, a heart attack or not being able to breath, call their HMO or insurance provider before going to the ER? Wouldn't they know to just make sure they had their insurance card with them and rush to the ER?
Isn't one of the most serious problems with so many people lacking health insurance that they end up using the ER as their primary healthcare provider.
If people without insurance know they can go to the ER why would people with insurance hesitate?
No, everyone calls the insurance company first because they don't want to lose their house with one small mistake. If you go to the ER, even with insurance, you can end up with a big bill if it turns out to not be the emergency you thought it was going to be. You can't be sure they will cover it.
Also, if you call an ambulance, you can end up with a big bill for that, because it's not always covered.
Nan,
On the gallmeter, you have hit an 11. I want you to know that I hold you and the rest of the Bernie Bots and Stein Looney Tunes completely responsible for this whole situation. All of it. Four years ago when most people understood that voting for Hillary was imperative because Trump was going to be a disaster, you and a bunch of whining children decided to take your bat and ball and go home or waste your votes as a protest. "There is no difference between Hillary and Trump."
So here we are. You think Hillary would have allowed ANY of this to go on? She would have shut all of this down 3 months ago by preparing properly for it. Nice job Nan. Nice. And you are doing it AGAIN.
You are literally the last person who should be opening her mouth about any of this right now.
STANV said:
I really don't understand.
Why would someone with an actual emergency, a heart attack or not being able to breath, call their HMO or insurance provider before going to the ER?
The imminence of an emergency is not always apparent from symptoms that might lead a parent to call the family’s HMO first.
sbenois said:
Nan,
On the gallmeter, you have hit an 11. I want you to know that I hold you and the rest of the Bernie Bots and Stein Looney Tunes completely responsible for this whole situation. All of it. Four years ago when most people understood that voting for Hillary was imperative because Trump was going to be a disaster, you and a bunch of whining children decided to take your bat and ball and go home or waste your votes as a protest. "There is no difference between Hillary and Trump."
So here we are. You think Hillary would have allowed ANY of this to go on? She would have shut all of this down 3 months ago by preparing properly for it. Nice job Nan. Nice. And you are doing it AGAIN.
You are literally the last person who should be opening her mouth about any of this right now.
You just make this crap up. You know I voted for HIllary. I wish I had voted for Jill Stein, who had a great platform and a better commitment to serve the people, but I held my nose . . .
AND, I don't think Hillary would be doing a good job with a pandemic either. She has been putting her 2 cents in BTW, so we have some idea (she won't go away). She says we should open the insurance exchanges. She's not calling for Medicare for All, which she blasted would never ever happen.
She would not be fighting for ordinary people to get $2K a month and rent/mortgage freezes and elimination of student debt as Bernie has been. Wikileaks revealed that she was self-centered, corrupt and owned by Wall Street. The neoliberal breadcumb policies that she endorsed are partly why we ended up with Trump. And now the same group that made the secret deal with Hillary for the nomination, has decided to rally around Biden, a candidate so bad he makes the odious HIllary look like Lincoln. You support this foul endorsement so you should not be opening your mouth about any of this right now.
You wanted Biden, you GOT HIM. GO TEAM BIDEN!!!!!! What are you worried about? I have been reassured by MSNBC that he is the best shot to beat Trump and he does not have a stutter or any cognitive decline and has not been accused of rape either. And who cares what he voted for ten years ago or called for cuts to social security and medicare. No one bothers paying any attention to those trivial things. If we just don't mention them, I'm sure Trump will see us as a united front and be afraid to say anything.
nan said:
sbenois said:
Nan,
On the gallmeter, you have hit an 11. I want you to know that I hold you and the rest of the Bernie Bots and Stein Looney Tunes completely responsible for this whole situation. All of it. Four years ago when most people understood that voting for Hillary was imperative because Trump was going to be a disaster, you and a bunch of whining children decided to take your bat and ball and go home or waste your votes as a protest. "There is no difference between Hillary and Trump."
So here we are. You think Hillary would have allowed ANY of this to go on? She would have shut all of this down 3 months ago by preparing properly for it. Nice job Nan. Nice. And you are doing it AGAIN.
You are literally the last person who should be opening her mouth about any of this right now.
You just make this crap up. You know I voted for HIllary. I wish I had voted for Jill Stein, who had a great platform and a better commitment to serve the people, but I held my nose . . .
AND, I don't think Hillary would be doing a good job with a pandemic either. She has been putting her 2 cents in BTW, so we have some idea (she won't go away). She says we should open the insurance exchanges. She's not calling for Medicare for All, which she blasted would never ever happen.
She would not be fighting for ordinary people to get $2K a month and rent/mortgage freezes and elimination of student debt as Bernie has been. Wikileaks revealed that she was self-centered, corrupt and owned by Wall Street. The neoliberal breadcumb policies that she endorsed are partly why we ended up with Trump. And now the same group that made the secret deal with Hillary for the nomination, has decided to rally around Biden, a candidate so bad he makes the odious HIllary look like Lincoln. You support this foul endorsement so you should not be opening your mouth about any of this right now.
You wanted Biden, you GOT HIM. GO TEAM BIDEN!!!!!! What are you worried about? I have been reassured by MSNBC that he is the best shot to beat Trump and he does not have a stutter or any cognitive decline and has not been accused of rape either. And who cares what he voted for ten years ago or called for cuts to social security and medicare. No one bothers paying any attention to those trivial things. If we just don't mention them, I'm sure Trump will see us as a united front and be afraid to say anything.
What a crazy world you have created for your self.
drummerboy said:
What a crazy world you have created for your self.
Indeed... where every Bernie supporter comes with a halo as standard equipment. Everyone else is corrupted and evil because they allow people to die. This is another cult, it seems we’re becoming a nation of cults. It’s taking us into dangerous territory. I guess that’s what happens when narcissistic maniacs are leaders of “movements”
Trump and Bernie actually have some of the same traits, anger being at the top of the list. Hates any form of criticism, repeat things so much it becomes “true” to their followers.... Bad hair ... is probably at the bottom.
Jaytee said:
Indeed... where every Bernie supporter comes with a halo as standard equipment. Everyone else is corrupted and evil because they allow people to die. This is another cult, it seems we’re becoming a nation of cults. It’s taking us into dangerous territory. I guess that’s what happens when narcissistic maniacs are leaders of “movements”
Trump and Bernie actually have some of the same traits, anger being at the top of the list. Hates any form of criticism, repeat things so much it becomes “true” to their followers.... Bad hair ... is probably at the bottom.
I agree that Trump and Bernie share traits such as anger. They are both populists, albeit at opposite sides of the spectrum. As a person they are very different though, I think Bernie's heart is in the right place, Trump is just a despicable human being.
STANV said:
I really don't understand.
Why would someone with an actual emergency, a heart attack or not being able to breath, call their HMO or insurance provider before going to the ER? Wouldn't they know to just make sure they had their insurance card with them and rush to the ER?
Isn't one of the most serious problems with so many people lacking health insurance that they end up using the ER as their primary healthcare provider.
If people without insurance know they can go to the ER why would people with insurance hesitate?
if you're bleeding out, you go to the ER.
Any similarities between Trump and Sanders are so superficial that it's absurd to even consider them worth pointing out. Same with the vast majority of their supporters.
ml1 said:
Any similarities between Trump and Sanders are so superficial that it's absurd to even consider them worth pointing out. Same with the vast majority of their supporters.
I beg to differ with respect to one point.
Large portions of both sets of supporters seem to agree with each other that "Democrats are evil."
Watch the video of Mad Mike's steam powered rocket launch (where the parachutes fall off the rocket at launch). Apparently, it was Mad Mike's goal to reach a high enough apex to take pictures proving his flat earth theories. At a minimum, Mad Mike proved the dangers of rapid deceleration caused by lack of parachutes.