Colin Kaepernick files Collusion Grievence
Thank you. Anytime a race discussion comes up it is one sided and if you dare to challenge that side you are a racist.
And I agree the only way to move this topic forward is to have an open discussion where both sides can be heard. And if some of these people on this board could look beyond their views they would see I am far from a racist, but it make them feel good about themselves calling someone a racist rather than having an open dialogue.
Smedley said:
I don't pretend to know everything there is to know about racism and I believe the topic will always be a work in progress for both society and the individual. I don't know Eric Burbank but it seems to me from this board that he's a reasonable person who's sincerely putting his views out there, however flawed or not flawed as you might see them.
From that best way to advance the discussion is just that -- advance the discussion, rather than just call racism and shut it down.
Never said it was a sacrifice or service. Simply stating if I was the racist you claim I am time and time again I would not have done any of the above.
And as far as your little dig about the bbq - while it may seem like nothing to you, it sure meant a lot to them those days. You could see it in their eyes and hear it in their conversation.
Was it the comment when they thanked me and said you do more for us then our own people that hit home and bothered you so much?
flimbro said:
EricBurbank said:
Some of you are making my point on racism for me. I am the racist for mentioning 3 black males or for disagreeing with the reason Kap was not signed or what he did was wrong and it wasn't about race. But like everything else lets throw the race card in to the mix, it makes for a better sound bite.
Lets go over who is the racist here? Who bought their house in a black neighborhood when whites were moving out? Who bought their next house in a black neighborhood when he could have moved to a more white neighborhood? Who lives in a predominantly white section of town yet loves to say they moved to Maplewood because of the diversity. Who doesn't cross Springfield ave because of the reputation it has? I know that doesn't fit most if not all of you, I imagine the conversations I have had over the years with these people.
Who gets a phone call on a Sunday morning from a black man living in the heart of Newark asking them for money to feed their kids? Who goes down there, takes him food shopping and pays for the bill even though he doesn't have the extra money himself? Who goes before a judge in a custody hearing and argues with the judge that this is the problem with the system and society. Here you have a black father looking to get custody and take care of his kid yet you are going to deny him for no good reason. Then put it in the books as another black child without a father in the picture. Who invites a bunch of black people over there house in the summer for a bbq and to go swimming because they don't have any food, or a.c. on a 95° day. Who was it that they said thank you, nobody ever invited us in to their house to eat and chill to get away from the city for a day? Who kept his job a lot longer than he wanted to but did because he was told if he left one of the black co-workers would get fired? Who was it that so many black people said to him, " you do more for us than our own people do, you sure you ain't a light skinned brother?" And the list could go on but I don't think I need to go on anymore because I will still be the racist.
So you can call me a racist all you want, but at the end of the day I have no problem putting my head down to sleep when it comes to this topic.
Dear Bwana
Thank you for your service and sacrifice and especially the bbq.
- From 'a bunch of Black people"
EricBurbank said:
Maybe Trump will bring some law and order back.
His authoritarianism is appealing to some, for sure.
EricBurbank said:
His last two years were not so good for him. Is he better than one or two starters? Probably. He is better than a lot of back ups? Absolutely.
That being said, being able to throw and run the ball is not the only job of a quarteeback. He is the team leader and by him putting his personal politics ahead of the team that took some of the belief in his team leadership away.
I think most people know what his protests are, they may not agree with him but they know.
The problem is the platform in which he decided to do it on. A lot of fans, (myself included) feel very patriotic and his kneeling during the anthem and his comments about the flag was enough for me to be turned off by him.
He had plenty of ways to get his word out. He was an NFL QB with Twitter and Facebook accounts not to mention the interviews he would have gotten had he asked for them.
I don't fault the owners for not signing a mediocre QB that might cause ticket sales, gear sales, and sponsorships to decline. The NFL is a business - plain and simple, their profits come first as it does with most companies.
Did he have the right to do it when he did it is debatable. Yes freedom of speech is protected but the league in which he signed a contract has rules. Why the fact he ignored them and got away with it for so long is beyond me, other than the league wanting to be politically correct.
There were plenty of times when teams and players were told they could not wear a patch honoring someone or something because it had rules and it was political. To name a few - wearing 9-11 patches after the attack, Dallas wanting to wear something honoring the police officers ambushed last year, a player wanting to wear pink socks honoring his mother who died from breast cancer and so on. Kaoernick wore socks with cops depicted as pigs during a pre-game. Why was there no discipline for him?
I am sorry but standing for the anthem and the flag is the least you can do for a country who has given you opportunities. Its not perfect but its better than any other country.
Well, the MOL-friendly answer will be that one player is black and the other is white.
But there's also the fact that Kaep knelt during the national anthem, while Tebow didn't.
NFL players, both black and white have knelt in prayer circles post-game for years, without any attention.
SYNYGY2 said:
What's the difference?
He stands for the national anthem (his shirt proves it!) but sits on the flag (and sips beer from a straw).
When Eric Burbank posts
What makes this country better? It used to be we held criminals accountable. See my new thread where 3 black males just broke in to 3 cars in 2 driveways with all,the lights. Tv's, and a person sitting out back at 9:30 p.m. Yeah drummerboy, I know how I dare I mention that they were black males. It could have been worse, they could have knelt before they robbed me.
Maybe Trump will bring some law and order back. With the snowflakes out there and the left politicians if they get caught they will get a slap o, the wrist and sent on their way to commit a more serious crime.
that is why people think he is racist. In talking about Kaep, what difference did it make if the people who broke into his car were black or white? Or then complains it is the "left " that gives out the jail sentences. And mentions that Trump will bring back law and order. The same Trump who said the KKK had some good people and the same Trump who referred to mexicans as rapists and turned his back on Puerto Ricans and has refused to rent apartments to black people, and who encouraged his supporters to punch a black person at a Trump rally. The same Donald Trump who has ignored all sense of ethics in the white house, all sense of decency, and talks about grabbing women by the pussy, and Eric looks to Trump to bring back law and order?
There was no crime in kneeling as a sign of protest. A very quiet respectable protest. Except he was black and therefore it was wrong.
mikescott said:
When Eric Burbank posts
What makes this country better? It used to be we held criminals accountable. See my new thread where 3 black males just broke in to 3 cars in 2 driveways with all,the lights. Tv's, and a person sitting out back at 9:30 p.m. Yeah drummerboy, I know how I dare I mention that they were black males. It could have been worse, they could have knelt before they robbed me.
Maybe Trump will bring some law and order back. With the snowflakes out there and the left politicians if they get caught they will get a slap o, the wrist and sent on their way to commit a more serious crime.
that is why people think he is racist. In talking about Kaep, what difference did it make if the people who broke into his car were black or white? Or then complains it is the "left " that gives out the jail sentences. And mentions that Trump will bring back law and order. The same Trump who said the KKK had some good people and the same Trump who referred to mexicans as rapists and turned his back on Puerto Ricans and has refused to rent apartments to black people, and who encouraged his supporters to punch a black person at a Trump rally. The same Donald Trump who has ignored all sense of ethics in the white house, all sense of decency, and talks about grabbing women by the pussy, and Eric looks to Trump to bring back law and order?
There was no crime in kneeling as a sign of protest. A very quiet respectable protest. Except he was black and therefore it was wrong.
It all just goes to show, you scratch a Trump supporter, you will find a racist.
I know some Trump supporters who are not racist, but were just anti-Hillary. In this case, I don't know if Eric Burbank is racist or not but when someone openly supports Trump given the things Trump has done and said so far is not a good thing.
When you mention that someone is black when it has absolutely no bearing on the story you're telling, you're racism has leaked out. No matter how many black people you've fed.
mikescott said:
When Eric Burbank posts
What makes this country better? It used to be we held criminals accountable. See my new thread where 3 black males just broke in to 3 cars in 2 driveways with all,the lights. Tv's, and a person sitting out back at 9:30 p.m. Yeah drummerboy, I know how I dare I mention that they were black males. It could have been worse, they could have knelt before they robbed me.
Maybe Trump will bring some law and order back. With the snowflakes out there and the left politicians if they get caught they will get a slap o, the wrist and sent on their way to commit a more serious crime.
that is why people think he is racist. In talking about Kaep, what difference did it make if the people who broke into his car were black or white? Or then complains it is the "left " that gives out the jail sentences. And mentions that Trump will bring back law and order. The same Trump who said the KKK had some good people and the same Trump who referred to mexicans as rapists and turned his back on Puerto Ricans and has refused to rent apartments to black people, and who encouraged his supporters to punch a black person at a Trump rally. The same Donald Trump who has ignored all sense of ethics in the white house, all sense of decency, and talks about grabbing women by the pussy, and Eric looks to Trump to bring back law and order?
There was no crime in kneeling as a sign of protest. A very quiet respectable protest. Except he was black and therefore it was wrong.
EricBurbank said:
Never said it was a sacrifice or service. Simply stating if I was the racist you claim I am time and time again I would not have done any of the above.
And as far as your little dig about the bbq - while it may seem like nothing to you, it sure meant a lot to them those days. You could see it in their eyes and hear it in their conversation.
Was it the comment when they thanked me and said you do more for us then our own people that hit home and bothered you so much?
flimbro said:
EricBurbank said:
Some of you are making my point on racism for me. I am the racist for mentioning 3 black males or for disagreeing with the reason Kap was not signed or what he did was wrong and it wasn't about race. But like everything else lets throw the race card in to the mix, it makes for a better sound bite.
Lets go over who is the racist here? Who bought their house in a black neighborhood when whites were moving out? Who bought their next house in a black neighborhood when he could have moved to a more white neighborhood? Who lives in a predominantly white section of town yet loves to say they moved to Maplewood because of the diversity. Who doesn't cross Springfield ave because of the reputation it has? I know that doesn't fit most if not all of you, I imagine the conversations I have had over the years with these people.
Who gets a phone call on a Sunday morning from a black man living in the heart of Newark asking them for money to feed their kids? Who goes down there, takes him food shopping and pays for the bill even though he doesn't have the extra money himself? Who goes before a judge in a custody hearing and argues with the judge that this is the problem with the system and society. Here you have a black father looking to get custody and take care of his kid yet you are going to deny him for no good reason. Then put it in the books as another black child without a father in the picture. Who invites a bunch of black people over there house in the summer for a bbq and to go swimming because they don't have any food, or a.c. on a 95° day. Who was it that they said thank you, nobody ever invited us in to their house to eat and chill to get away from the city for a day? Who kept his job a lot longer than he wanted to but did because he was told if he left one of the black co-workers would get fired? Who was it that so many black people said to him, " you do more for us than our own people do, you sure you ain't a light skinned brother?" And the list could go on but I don't think I need to go on anymore because I will still be the racist.
So you can call me a racist all you want, but at the end of the day I have no problem putting my head down to sleep when it comes to this topic.
Dear Bwana
Thank you for your service and sacrifice and especially the bbq.
- From 'a bunch of Black people"
First, an update:
White folks: Beginning next year on Juneteenth the number of official Black friends one must acquire to receive our official 'Hey Guys, I'm No Racist' designation will increase to 12 from the current 10.
Next year out of a total of 12 Black friends you will need to know the first AND last names of at least 8 Black people and no more than 3 of them can be:
1. people that you work with every day
2. a sports figure that you forced yourself on to get a selfie,
3. your nanny or any of her family that you don't really know
4.the Fedex dude that handles your block
At least 6 of your qualifying Black friends have to have spent at least two evenings at your home- indoors. Kids parties do not count. You will be required to know home addresses for at least four of the Black people you claim as friends.
We will no longer accept verbal claims that you:
- 'know a whole bunch of Black folks'.
- 'really get into Reggaeton'
- used to sleep with a Black woman/man or both in college (or still do)
- lend money to my Black buddy 'all the time'
- Never miss 'Blackish'
- can spell all of the days of Kwaanza
And lastly, please do not try to sneak any Latinos into your Black Friend tally. Latino, Latinx and Hispanic Friends are measured by an entirely different department.
In closing, we think these relatively small adjustments will speed us along the road to racial harmony as well as provide the already over burdened well meaning white person with a relatively simple method of separating his or herself from the typical unenlightened American or a Trump voter.
Make this holiday season count and start interviewing your prospective Black friends today!
Who said I was a Trump supporter or even voted for him? Some tunnel vision by extreme leftist. I have been a Dem my whole life. Difference is that I can see more than the party points and the points of the other side without calling them racists or deplorable for voting for their candidate.
I brought up 3 black males because this thread was about race and how it is always the whites who do wrong.
I have made no secret of me being a law and order guy, Dem or not. Blaming the Liberal Politicians is where I believe the blame lies on crime. Chicago is a perfect example. How many people (black people at that) are murdered and there is no mention of it by the Dems.
"it all goes to show, you scratch a Trump supporter, you will find a racist". Yeah, that's not racist. Please.
Klinker said:
mikescott said:
When Eric Burbank posts
What makes this country better? It used to be we held criminals accountable. See my new thread where 3 black males just broke in to 3 cars in 2 driveways with all,the lights. Tv's, and a person sitting out back at 9:30 p.m. Yeah drummerboy, I know how I dare I mention that they were black males. It could have been worse, they could have knelt before they robbed me.
Maybe Trump will bring some law and order back. With the snowflakes out there and the left politicians if they get caught they will get a slap o, the wrist and sent on their way to commit a more serious crime.
that is why people think he is racist. In talking about Kaep, what difference did it make if the people who broke into his car were black or white? Or then complains it is the "left " that gives out the jail sentences. And mentions that Trump will bring back law and order. The same Trump who said the KKK had some good people and the same Trump who referred to mexicans as rapists and turned his back on Puerto Ricans and has refused to rent apartments to black people, and who encouraged his supporters to punch a black person at a Trump rally. The same Donald Trump who has ignored all sense of ethics in the white house, all sense of decency, and talks about grabbing women by the pussy, and Eric looks to Trump to bring back law and order?
There was no crime in kneeling as a sign of protest. A very quiet respectable protest. Except he was black and therefore it was wrong.
It all just goes to show, you scratch a Trump supporter, you will find a racist.
I think it had plenty of bearing considering all that has happened in this town this past year. With people like you blasting the police for racial harassment and bias.
And just because you see it as a quiet respectable protest doesn't mean the rest of us saw it as that at all. We saw him disrespecting the Flag. Him being black had nothing to do with it except when you and people like you made it a race issue.
When they knelt before the anthem and locked arms I had no problem with that.
drummerboy said:
When you mention that someone is black when it has absolutely no bearing on the story you're telling, you're racism has leaked out. No matter how many black people you've fed.
mikescott said:
When Eric Burbank posts
What makes this country better? It used to be we held criminals accountable. See my new thread where 3 black males just broke in to 3 cars in 2 driveways with all,the lights. Tv's, and a person sitting out back at 9:30 p.m. Yeah drummerboy, I know how I dare I mention that they were black males. It could have been worse, they could have knelt before they robbed me.
Maybe Trump will bring some law and order back. With the snowflakes out there and the left politicians if they get caught they will get a slap o, the wrist and sent on their way to commit a more serious crime.
that is why people think he is racist. In talking about Kaep, what difference did it make if the people who broke into his car were black or white? Or then complains it is the "left " that gives out the jail sentences. And mentions that Trump will bring back law and order. The same Trump who said the KKK had some good people and the same Trump who referred to mexicans as rapists and turned his back on Puerto Ricans and has refused to rent apartments to black people, and who encouraged his supporters to punch a black person at a Trump rally. The same Donald Trump who has ignored all sense of ethics in the white house, all sense of decency, and talks about grabbing women by the pussy, and Eric looks to Trump to bring back law and order?
There was no crime in kneeling as a sign of protest. A very quiet respectable protest. Except he was black and therefore it was wrong.
Finally, I may not have your college educations or ability to phrase everything the proper way, but I am intelligent enough to know there are two sides to any story and the only way to get to the truth or to understand an issue is to listen and try to understand the other side.
I have been able to do that my entire life. Some of you can't see anyone's opinion no matter what. This is one of the reasons Trump got voted in and will probably get re-elected. Until you are willing to listen and understand what some of his supporters are feeling like. Stop judging everyone who doesn't agree with you and stop throwing the race card at them. I will give Mimescott some credit for acknowledging that not all trump supporters are racists. Its a start. As far you not knowing if I am a racist, you believe what you want. I am ok with that. I consider myself someone who sees both sides and agrees with the person who makes the most sense to me on that particular topic. Such as this case, I believe the criminals being black last night did have bearing on my point. Yet, I do not consider myself a racist because over the years I have gone above and beyond to do what I could do to help the black community or any community for that matter.
I have a question for folks, which I am genuinely curious about other people's opinions.
Say someone is driving down South Orange Ave in Newark, from South Orange towards Newark Penn Station for example. At night.
The driver locks the doors in response to the setting.
Is that door-locking racist?
I had this debate with someone I know. I don't think it's racist. The person I spoke with believed it was at least somewhat racist.
?
Crime has been going down for the last couple of decades in conservative and liberal areas.
EricBurbank said:
Finally, I may not have your college educations or ability to phrase everything the proper way, but I am intelligent enough to know there are two sides to any story and the only way to get to the truth or to understand an issue is to listen and try to understand the other side.
I have been able to do that my entire life. Some of you can't see anyone's opinion no matter what. This is one of the reasons Trump got voted in and will probably get re-elected. Until you are willing to listen and understand what some of his supporters are feeling like. Stop judging everyone who doesn't agree with you and stop throwing the race card at them. I will give Mimescott some credit for acknowledging that not all trump supporters are racists. Its a start. As far you not knowing if I am a racist, you believe what you want. I am ok with that. I consider myself someone who sees both sides and agrees with the person who makes the most sense to me on that particular topic. Such as this case, I believe the criminals being black last night did have bearing on my point. Yet, I do not consider myself a racist because over the years I have gone above and beyond to do what I could do to help the black community or any community for that matter.
I haven't called you racist. And I think I'm pretty good in at least trying to understand other people's POV. I think my post-election posts on this site speak for themselves.
But one thing that not enough of us do is actually listen to ourselves. It's actually pretty easy to listen to someone else. It's harder to honestly look at our own words and try to see and hear them as other people do. It's harder yet to tell someone that we see their point about our words, accept responsibility and apologize.
Instead of being defensive, perhaps go back and read your words over the past day or so and ask yourself why those words are being perceived as racist. I'm not going to call you a racist without knowing you. But I will say the stuff you've written here has had me cringing in response.
ml1 - you're giving this guy way too much slack.
study this sentence, and try to imagine what you need to believe in order to say it:
"I brought up 3 black males because this thread was about race and how it is always the whites who do wrong."
ml1 said:
EricBurbank said:
Finally, I may not have your college educations or ability to phrase everything the proper way, but I am intelligent enough to know there are two sides to any story and the only way to get to the truth or to understand an issue is to listen and try to understand the other side.
I have been able to do that my entire life. Some of you can't see anyone's opinion no matter what. This is one of the reasons Trump got voted in and will probably get re-elected. Until you are willing to listen and understand what some of his supporters are feeling like. Stop judging everyone who doesn't agree with you and stop throwing the race card at them. I will give Mimescott some credit for acknowledging that not all trump supporters are racists. Its a start. As far you not knowing if I am a racist, you believe what you want. I am ok with that. I consider myself someone who sees both sides and agrees with the person who makes the most sense to me on that particular topic. Such as this case, I believe the criminals being black last night did have bearing on my point. Yet, I do not consider myself a racist because over the years I have gone above and beyond to do what I could do to help the black community or any community for that matter.
I haven't called you racist. And I think I'm pretty good in at least trying to understand other people's POV. I think my post-election posts on this site speak for themselves.
But one thing that not enough of us do is actually listen to ourselves. It's actually pretty easy to listen to someone else. It's harder to honestly look at our own words and try to see and hear them as other people do. It's harder yet to tell someone that we see their point about our words, accept responsibility and apologize.
Instead of being defensive, perhaps go back and read your words over the past day or so and ask yourself why those words are being perceived as racist. I'm not going to call you a racist without knowing you. But I will say the stuff you've written here has had me cringing in response.
the fact is that Kaepernick told everyone what his protest was about. And he made it clear he meant no disrespect to the flag. So people had to consciously choose to ignore what he said and consciously make it about the flag when it wasn't.
And the fact that he is black had everything to do with his protest. It was about the treatment of black people in the U.S., particularly by the police. For you to say it wasn't a race issue is to completely ignore his central point. It was all about his being black. You don't have to agree with his point, but you shouldn't misrepresent it to be about something it wasn't, and to not be about something it was.
EricBurbank said:
And just because you see it as a quiet respectable protest doesn't mean the rest of us saw it as that at all. We saw him disrespecting the Flag. Him being black had nothing to do with it except when you and people like you made it a race issue.
When they knelt before the anthem and locked arms I had no problem with that.
Smedley,
If the person you had the conversationion with was Drummerboy, Klinker, Filmbro or a couple others on this thread that person would absolutely be a racist.
In the perfect world where one can actually express a viewpoint without being called a racist the answer would be no.
It would be common sense and actually the smart move. The fact that the neighborhood is all black is irrelevant. It is a neighborhood filled with crime and that person could become another statistic.
How could he say it was somewhat racist? Because it was a black neighborhood?
That is just someone wanting to believe they are morally superior to you. And you can bet that person would lock the doors too.
drummerboy said:
ml1 - you're giving this guy way too much slack.
here's the thing. I'm not ready to say someone I don't know IS a racist. A sentence like that is racist. Does that mean the writer IS a racist? How do I know that he is? At least insofar as pretty much all of us white people are capable of racist words or thoughts. Are we all racists? Maybe, probably. Let's just assume we're all racists then.
thoughts are internal. as long as your racist thoughts stay in your head, and don't translate into behavior of any kind, you're not racist. Not in any meaningful sense anyway. As I've said many times, it's almost impossible in today's America for your brain to not get infected with racism.
But giving voice to those thoughts is an external behavior. And that, to me, is where real racism begins. If his worse behavior is writing racist posts on MOL, he's on the moderate end of the racist curve. But he's on there nonetheless.
IMHO
ml1 said:
drummerboy said:
ml1 - you're giving this guy way too much slack.
here's the thing. I'm not ready to say someone I don't know IS a racist. A sentence like that is racist. Does that mean the writer IS a racist? How do I know that he is? At least insofar as pretty much all of us white people are capable of racist words or thoughts. Are we all racists? Maybe, probably. Let's just assume we're all racists then.
but where do you get with someone by saying - "racist!" Why not address what was said or written, instead of calling names. You can say that a statement is racist or seems racist, and maybe get less defensiveness.
drummerboy said:
thoughts are internal. as long as your racist thoughts stay in your head, and don't translate into behavior of any kind, you're not racist. Not in any meaningful sense anyway. As I've said many times, it's almost impossible in today's America for your brain to not get infected with racism.
But giving voice to those thoughts is an external behavior. And that, to me, is where real racism begins. If his worse behavior is writing racist posts on MOL, he's on the moderate end of the racist curve. But he's on there nonetheless.
IMHO
I believe his comment below was one of the comments he made about the flag and disrespect for everything else it stands for. While one could argue he had a point in what he was protesting, him saying he was not going to show pride in the flag or country is what had so many of us outraged at his kneeling.
"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,"
This country is the best country in the world, does it have flaws and areas where it needs to improve? Absolutely. But men and women died defending this flag and country so I think his statement was part of the issue.
I guess I've stopped believing I can have a useful conversation with people who express thoughts like that, and in that way. I've lost patience with these people.
ml1 said:
but where do you get with someone by saying - "racist!" Why not address what was said or written, instead of calling names. You can say that a statement is racist or seems racist, and maybe get less defensiveness.
drummerboy said:
thoughts are internal. as long as your racist thoughts stay in your head, and don't translate into behavior of any kind, you're not racist. Not in any meaningful sense anyway. As I've said many times, it's almost impossible in today's America for your brain to not get infected with racism.
But giving voice to those thoughts is an external behavior. And that, to me, is where real racism begins. If his worse behavior is writing racist posts on MOL, he's on the moderate end of the racist curve. But he's on there nonetheless.
IMHO
As Americans we have not had enough shared experiences. Both EricBurbank and FilmBro are correct about the absolute hypocrisy that exists right here in so called diverse SOMA. Mingling at a street fair, or having convos with parents at your child's school, or any number of casual interactions do not represent actual diversity. Sentiments about race as expressed by EricBurbank rakes the nerves of many. But these ideas can only exist because we have not been sufficiently socialized with people who do not look like us.
ml1,
Thank you for your honesty and sensibility.
Drummerboy made a list on another thread in which he decided if you agreed with any of the statements he listed, you were a racist. How does one decide by a list that you are a racist?
A serious question - why when any conversation pertaining to racism comes up is it always the white person who is racist? Are there no such thing as black racists? Or even white people being racist against white people?
Why is it ok for black people to say they fear being shot and killed when pulled over by the police, yet if a white person( such as in Smedleys scenario of just locking their car doors) says they fear being shot or killed in a black crime neighborhood, they are considered the racists. Yet statistics tell you more white people are shot or killed by black people than black people shot and killed by the police.
My point being, that it is always ok to claim racism against white people but never ok to point out when a black person does something wrong. If you do, you are a racist.
This is where there is a big disconnect. If people want to consider me a racists so be it. I can't change their minds, but the people who know me, black people included know it's the furthest from the truth and I am ok with that. Filmbro amongst others on this board love to point out things I say that can be construed as racist yet never want to have an honest open conversation where they are ready to listen to opposing views with an open mind.change I have admitted on other threads when I have said something over the line and apologized for saying them. Can't say its been a two way street.
EricBurbank said:
I believe his comment below was one of the comments he made about the flag and disrespect for everything else it stands for. While one could argue he had a point in what he was protesting, him saying he was not going to show pride in the flag or country is what had so many of us outraged at his kneeling.
"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,"
This country is the best country in the world, does it have flaws and areas where it needs to improve? Absolutely. But men and women died defending this flag and country so I think his statement was part of the issue.
we fly the flag every day in front of our house. We do so out of patriotism and love of country. We think it's important that "leftists" like ourselves don't concede those values to authoritarians and war mongers. That said, the flag is still just a symbolic piece of cloth. No one. No one every died defending it. They weren't fighting for a piece of cloth. They were fighting for their country. And to me, the piece of cloth is meaningless unless it stands for a set of values. And one of those values is the right to speak one's mind, especially against the government and the powers that be. The right to protest is infinitely more important to me than a piece of cloth or a musical composition. Our country's ideals aren't aren't expressed in a banner or a song. To me (a person who flies the flag at home), the people who are outraged at the protests are more of a threat to this country and our freedom than the protests are. I cheer the protests because they are the proof that we can still express ourselves, even if the whiny baby in the White House doesn't want us to.
With regard to whether the U.S. is the "best country in the world", who cares? Is there a competition? If there is, how are we scoring it? This is my country, my home, the country I love. But I've been to other countries, and many of them do a lot of things better than we do. Mostly their countries do better at providing for their citizens -- for the sick, the old, the young, the weak. Does that mean they're "better"? Who knows? There's no way to keep score. I'm sure the average British, German, Japanese, French, Spanish person thinks they live in the "best country in the world" too. And for them, I'm sure it is. I don't care if we're the "best country in the world." I'd just like us to be the best United States we can be. And we're still a long way from that. And I'm glad Colin Kaepernick and people like him are sticking their necks out to remind us of that. It's the only way for us to make progress instead of complacently telling ourselves we're "the best."
EricBurbank said:
ml1,
Thank you for your honesty and sensibility.
Drummerboy made a list on another thread in which he decided if you agreed with any of the statements he listed, you were a racist. How does one decide by a list that you are a racist?
A serious question - why when any conversation pertaining to racism comes up is it always the white person who is racist? Are there no such thing as black racists? Or even white people being racist against white people?
Why is it ok for black people to say they fear being shot and killed when pulled over by the police, yet if a white person( such as in Smedleys scenario of just locking their car doors) says they fear being shot or killed in a black crime neighborhood, they are considered the racists. Yet statistics tell you more white people are shot or killed by black people than black people shot and killed by the police.
My point being, that it is always ok to claim racism against white people but never ok to point out when a black person does something wrong. If you do, you are a racist.
This is where there is a big disconnect. If people want to consider me a racists so be it. I can't change their minds, but the people who know me, black people included know it's the furthest from the truth and I am ok with that. Filmbro amongst others on this board love to point out things I say that can be construed as racist yet never want to have an honest open conversation where they are ready to listen to opposing views with an open mind.change I have admitted on other threads when I have said something over the line and apologized for saying them. Can't say its been a two way street.
I'm not the person you should be asking these questions of. I think white people are generally too presumptuous on issues of race and racism. I think we should be listening more and talking less. I don't have answers, only questions.
Ok fair enough. You gave your answers some of which I disagree with but they were your honest non name calling answers.
To me the flag is more than a piece of cloth, it is the symbol of our country. I may be too patriotic for some of the extreme leftists, I get goose bumps when I go to a game( or wherever ) during the singing of the national anthem. And people didn't fight and die for a piece of cloth, they died for all that it represents which includes freedom of speech. Thanks to those brave people Kap had the right by law to protest when he did. But taking that in to consideration would have made this less of a controversy.
Also agree that people in other countries feel their country is the best as they should.
But Americans butchimg about how bad a country we are doesn't help the matter it only causes more divide.
Yes Trump has divided this country but our side hasn't helped either. This was the first time in my life where I have been very disappointed in the party. It actually did open my eyes to what the trump supporters saw going on in this country. Not that I agreed with them on much but I could see their point of view. So by some people on this board's opinion that makes me a racist,or a Trump supporter. So shame on them, and shame on those who are afraid to speak up, or look at another's point of view without name calling.
Featured Events
-
Stephen Whitty Presents - Hometown Movie Stars: The Celebrated Actors Of CHS
May 6, 2024 at 7:00pm
Sponsored Business
Promote your business here - Businesses get highlighted throughout the site and you can add a deal.
I believe the preferred method is silent, invisible, mental protest done anywhere other than where white folks may be forced to acknowledge it and therefore be inconvenienced for any amount of time.