Can someone make Kanye just shut up?

Well similarly, I'm not sure you can dismiss all of the Kardashian clan as unintelligent. Yes, they say "like" a lot and their lifestyle is generally portrayed as being shallow and vapid, but they all have a hell of a business sense.

Yeezus was high/drunk off his ass and he was performing a free form manifesto to his people- his audience- the folks that buy, memorize, recite and quote his music (and in the venue that night the folks paid to applaud when the "applause" light comes on). He was feeling it, his audience dug it and that's what matters when all is said and done. He's trying hard to maintain a tortured-intellectual-artist-with-a-worldview persona in a business that doesn't require it or support it. If that continues to work and expands his oeuvre I say good for him.

It goes without saying but- if you can't hear it- maybe it's just not for you. Small sections of my brain decompose and die every time Taylor Swift opens her mouth, but I don't deny her artistry- it's just not for me.

While there are always alternative hip-hop groups, Kanye was one of the few who actually made a mark on pop music and he influences everyone from Mumford & Sons to Florence + the Machine to The Fray. He is a unique talent. And intelligent, to boot.

yahooyahoo said:
Rap musicians were deviating from the gangsta style back in the late 80s and early 90s and creating great "alternative" hip hop. Kanye was not breaking new ground with his style.

bettyd said:
I do like that he deviated from the gangsta style in hip hop and gave it an alternative feel. However, the constant proclaiming of how great he is and whining about not winning awards (MTV, Grammies, etc., which are meaningless in my opinion) dating back to 2004 bugs me. I feel it's a little bit of insecurity. What's the old adage? "Well done is better than well said" He can't seem to let the music speak for itself, he has to remind everyone how great it and he is. In 1966 Wichester Cathedral won the Grammy for Record of the Year. You didn't see John Lennon or James Brown or Marvin Gaye, or any of the other great artists creating great music back then, running up on stage to steal the limelight and complain. A big character flaw in Kanye West in my opinion.

yahooyahoo said:
Rap musicians were deviating from the gangsta style back in the late 80s and early 90s and creating great "alternative" hip hop. Kanye was not breaking new ground with his style.

bettyd said:
I do like that he deviated from the gangsta style in hip hop and gave it an alternative feel. However, the constant proclaiming of how great he is and whining about not winning awards (MTV, Grammies, etc., which are meaningless in my opinion) dating back to 2004 bugs me. I feel it's a little bit of insecurity. What's the old adage? "Well done is better than well said" He can't seem to let the music speak for itself, he has to remind everyone how great it and he is. In 1966 Wichester Cathedral won the Grammy for Record of the Year. You didn't see John Lennon or James Brown or Marvin Gaye, or any of the other great artists creating great music back then, running up on stage to steal the limelight and complain. A big character flaw in Kanye West in my opinion.

Yes, I think he is very bright...but my view of what makes a person "smart" or "intelligent" probably differs from yours. My son has Autism and ADHD. I consider him to be "bright" even though his grades and verbal communication skills may not reflect that. As a result, I've come to challenge how we define people's level of intelligence or smartness. Sometimes its not in the way a person articulates their thoughts, but in the message being delivered. Kanye's speech was to his peers - to the people who know what he was referencing. If you are not a fan or not of Kanye's world, then the speech sounds like crazy rambling.

I like how he acknowledged that artists are pawns in the industry...and that even some of his past behavior has played into the game.

conandrob240 said:
What did you like about it exactly? Talented, yes. Very bright? Probably not

He could have stood up there and read the phone book and his followers would have loved it. Listen to the playback and hear them cheering even when it made absolutely no sense to cheer. Times when cheering was the opposite message from what he was trying to say. It was hysterical from that perspective also.

Yes, high/drunk off his ass is a sound explanation for the "speech"

Oh my god, I know exactly what he was trying to reference. I made out the idea behind it. The problem was that it was almost incoherent, rambling, and idiotic. Had he taken a bit of time to collect his thoughts, write it down and make his points in a somewhat logical manner, it might have worked. But he did not. So,it was a hot mess.

flimbro said:

if you can't hear it- maybe it's just not for you.

My point isn't that, as adults, we shouldn't be discussing Kanye West. My point is that, as adults, we probably shouldn't be watching MTV.

ridski said:
My point isn't that, as adults, we shouldn't be discussing Kanye West. My point is that, as adults, we probably shouldn't be watching MTV.

Or maybe staying open to what it is rather than holding it to a standard that doesn't apply. The idea that some kinds of music or parts of culture become off limits as we age makes me sad.

ridski said:
My point isn't that, as adults, we shouldn't be discussing Kanye West. My point is that, as adults, we probably shouldn't be watching MTV.

MTV is the channel on which the VMAs are broadcast. I fail to see how the conversation would be any different if it were about the Grammys on CBS.

He made the points he wanted to make. As far as whether he reached you personally, thats not his concern. He didnt speak in a language comfortable for you to understand but its not like he was saying anything that required deep thought.

He didnt come prepared with a boring speech to thank everyone and anything.

Rap was built on bragging. He does it better than most.

Love his music. We need more Kanye covers at Maplewoodstock.

imonlysleeping said:

ridski said:
My point isn't that, as adults, we shouldn't be discussing Kanye West. My point is that, as adults, we probably shouldn't be watching MTV.

MTV is the channel on which the VMAs are broadcast. I fail to see how the conversation would be any different if it were about the Grammys on CBS.

Well, you got me there, as I never watch the Grammys either. But my larger point is that unlike the Grammys, or most award shows, the VMAs needs the crazy. It wants the crazy. It encourages the crazy. They've booked 10+ re-airings of this show from tonight through next Sunday morning and a boring show simply will not sell advertising for each rebroadcast. How many times could you show Ed Sheeran singing Mr Blue Sky with ELO?

Well, on the topic, Miley was plenty kooky to fill up the kooky meter. Kanye was just icing. That girl just tries way to hard to prove that she is cool.

MTV stopped being relevant many years ago when they decided to stop focusing on music. The VMAs are their last gasp at any importance in the music world.

ridski said:

imonlysleeping said:

ridski said:
My point isn't that, as adults, we shouldn't be discussing Kanye West. My point is that, as adults, we probably shouldn't be watching MTV.

MTV is the channel on which the VMAs are broadcast. I fail to see how the conversation would be any different if it were about the Grammys on CBS.

Well, you got me there, as I never watch the Grammys either. But my larger point is that unlike the Grammys, or most award shows, the VMAs needs the crazy. It wants the crazy. It encourages the crazy. They've booked 10+ re-airings of this show from tonight through next Sunday morning and a boring show simply will not sell advertising for each rebroadcast. How many times could you show Ed Sheeran singing Mr Blue Sky with ELO?

yahooyahoo said:
MTV stopped being relevant many years ago when they decided to stop focusing on music. The VMAs are their last gasp at any importance in the music world.

It stopped being relevant to us, and the focus on music stopped being relevant to advertisers. Blocks of random music videos don't compel people to continue watching during commercial breaks. Last Thursday night Teen Mom II was the 3rd highest rated show on cable.

Yes, they still get good ratings for reality TV shows. I was referring to their place in the music industry. iTunes, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, etc have rendered MTV useless for music listeners.

ridski said:

yahooyahoo said:
MTV stopped being relevant many years ago when they decided to stop focusing on music. The VMAs are their last gasp at any importance in the music world.

It stopped being relevant to us, and the focus on music stopped being relevant to advertisers. Blocks of random music videos don't compel people to continue watching during commercial breaks. Last Thursday night Teen Mom II was the 3rd highest rated show on cable.

That just proves how out of touch you are. MTV focus on reality and scripted programming targeting tweens and the under 24 set. My son and his friends have already started watching it. And among the teens in the neighborhood, the shows on MTV (and FOX and The CW) are all they watch.

As for videos MTV has about four other channels that play exclusively music. So, people in the know, know where to find music videos.

yahooyahoo said:
MTV stopped being relevant many years ago when they decided to stop focusing on music. The VMAs are their last gasp at any importance in the music world.

ridski said:

imonlysleeping said:

ridski said:
My point isn't that, as adults, we shouldn't be discussing Kanye West. My point is that, as adults, we probably shouldn't be watching MTV.

MTV is the channel on which the VMAs are broadcast. I fail to see how the conversation would be any different if it were about the Grammys on CBS.

Well, you got me there, as I never watch the Grammys either. But my larger point is that unlike the Grammys, or most award shows, the VMAs needs the crazy. It wants the crazy. It encourages the crazy. They've booked 10+ re-airings of this show from tonight through next Sunday morning and a boring show simply will not sell advertising for each rebroadcast. How many times could you show Ed Sheeran singing Mr Blue Sky with ELO?

Kanye West is this generation's provocateur.He speaks with the clipped off sentences,random thoughts, and Instagram egotism of the millennials. He is no more incomprehensible than many of his industry's predecessors and not the first to take a stab at the messiah figure role. I think some of the idolized "geniuses" of prior generations seem like real jerks in retrospect. Maybe that will be Kanye's fate, but it will be up to this generation's fans to decide that.

I know they have 3 or 4 other channels showing videos. Do you think teenagers turn on one of the channels hoping they get to see a certain video?

If my kids want to see a video, they jump on their smartphones and find is asap. MTV does not even get consideration for anything music-related.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-mtv-programming-chief-susanne-daniels-to-exit-after-three-years-20150722-story.html

"MTV's ratings troubles haven’t steadied much since then as the network, once a haven for youth, sees its target audience gravitate toward mobile devices. In the first quarter of 2015, ratings for MTV’s target demographic were down 29% compared with the same period last year."

Hahaha said:
That just proves how out of touch you are. MTV focus on reality and scripted programming targeting tweens and the under 24 set. My son and his friends have already started watching it. And among the teens in the neighborhood, the shows on MTV (and FOX and The CW) are all they watch.
As for videos MTV has about four other channels that play exclusively music. So, people in the know, know where to find music videos.

yahooyahoo said:
MTV stopped being relevant many years ago when they decided to stop focusing on music. The VMAs are their last gasp at any importance in the music world.

ridski said:

imonlysleeping said:

ridski said:
My point isn't that, as adults, we shouldn't be discussing Kanye West. My point is that, as adults, we probably shouldn't be watching MTV.

MTV is the channel on which the VMAs are broadcast. I fail to see how the conversation would be any different if it were about the Grammys on CBS.

Well, you got me there, as I never watch the Grammys either. But my larger point is that unlike the Grammys, or most award shows, the VMAs needs the crazy. It wants the crazy. It encourages the crazy. They've booked 10+ re-airings of this show from tonight through next Sunday morning and a boring show simply will not sell advertising for each rebroadcast. How many times could you show Ed Sheeran singing Mr Blue Sky with ELO?

Kanye and the Kardashians share the same talent: getting people who don't know any better to give them money for no good reason.

MTV hasn't been a music channel for decades. Its ratings problems have nothing to do with a lack of music programming.

yahooyahoo said:
I know they have 3 or 4 other channels showing videos. Do you think teenagers turn on one of the channels hoping they get to see a certain video?
If my kids want to see a video, they jump on their smartphones and find is asap. MTV does not even get consideration for anything music-related.
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-mtv-programming-chief-susanne-daniels-to-exit-after-three-years-20150722-story.html
"MTV's ratings troubles haven’t steadied much since then as the network, once a haven for youth, sees its target audience gravitate toward mobile devices. In the first quarter of 2015, ratings for MTV’s target demographic were down 29% compared with the same period last year."

Hahaha said:
That just proves how out of touch you are. MTV focus on reality and scripted programming targeting tweens and the under 24 set. My son and his friends have already started watching it. And among the teens in the neighborhood, the shows on MTV (and FOX and The CW) are all they watch.
As for videos MTV has about four other channels that play exclusively music. So, people in the know, know where to find music videos.

yahooyahoo said:
MTV stopped being relevant many years ago when they decided to stop focusing on music. The VMAs are their last gasp at any importance in the music world.

ridski said:

imonlysleeping said:

ridski said:
My point isn't that, as adults, we shouldn't be discussing Kanye West. My point is that, as adults, we probably shouldn't be watching MTV.

MTV is the channel on which the VMAs are broadcast. I fail to see how the conversation would be any different if it were about the Grammys on CBS.

Well, you got me there, as I never watch the Grammys either. But my larger point is that unlike the Grammys, or most award shows, the VMAs needs the crazy. It wants the crazy. It encourages the crazy. They've booked 10+ re-airings of this show from tonight through next Sunday morning and a boring show simply will not sell advertising for each rebroadcast. How many times could you show Ed Sheeran singing Mr Blue Sky with ELO?

I get what conandrob is saying. Like Trump, he's obviously intelligent. But it's in the narcissitic delivery of the message that turns people either off or on. THey both thrive on attention.

Whether or not he's narcissistic has zero bearing on whether or not he's intelligent. I don't understand the connection.

Sure, his delivery can be off-putting. Agreed. Still don't understand what that has to do with intelligence.

hoops said:
what is it he said there that is upsetting? From the transcipt above, I dont find anything particularly different than most acceptance speeches.
I didnt see it live, the WNBA, the NFL, Ray Donovan, were all things that I preferred to watch last night.
Kanye is a musical genius, not a politician. He's given us plenty of entertainment, I don't care what he says at awards shows.

+1, and great choice of an album to pick from!

Basically if half the people watching him at the awards rolled their eyes and thought he sounded like a man of ridiculous ramblings and nonsense, it didn't earn him any brownie points on the intelligence scale whether you think that's fair or not. His delivery might have been just the thing for many, but for others not so much. If he wants everyone (not just who buy his records) to think he's so fabulous and such an artistic whiz, maybe he could stop making an ass out of himself at these big events. Personally, I think his voice, even tho its rapping, sounds flat. makes me cringe. But I'm not his target audience ;-)

Maybe you didn't think he sounded smart last night, but that doesn't mean he isn't smart. He is smart. Objectively. Which is on display many other places. Read the GQ or NY Times Q&As. Read that interview with Steve McQueen that I posted above. Anyone who claims he's dumb based only on what they heard last night just doesn't have the full picture.

In other words, I strongly urge you to consider the possibility that rather than him being dumb, you are ignorant.