Can someone make Kanye just shut up?
Kanye chose to speak in the vernacular he was comfortable with, to use the slang he knows his fans and people he is speaking to, identify with and understand perfectly.
Its not hard to decipher what he said, even if you are not comfortable with the english dialect he chose to convey it.
Yes, you're right. That is awful. But digging out one of the few missteps in a long and brilliant career doesn't do much to make your argument seem smarter.
I disagree with the bound 2 characterization above. I find it to be a good song. His use of Brenda Lee's "uh-huh honey", is catchy.
I think quite the opposite. I have no issue with saying he is extremely talented. I like much of his music and think he is up there with the best of them. I do not think he is intelligent at all. He doesn't articulate his thoughts well, he lacks emotional intelligence and what he says is far more brilliant to him than to others. But, if you are operating at the intelligence level of ha wife and her family, he is probably viewed as an Einstein so I guess it's all relative
It's the video that's awful. But so what? There are awful Beatles songs. There are awful Scorsese movies. The most talented artists reach beyond where they've been, and sometimes they stumble. Kanye is not somebody who has ever played it safe, whether he's writing music or making a speech at an idiotic awards show. That's something to be celebrated, not mocked. Are we really so numb and timid that we can't handle somebody disrupting something as formulaic and cynical as the VMAs by being a weirdo? We need more weirdos, especially when they're as talented as Kanye.
The vernacular and slang wasn't the issue. It was how he couldn't string a coherent thought together. And on the rare occasion his stream of consciousness made some sense, the message, as always, was "I am God. I know better than all. I am not sorry for acting like an ass because I am the messiah sent to judge all art".
conandrob240 said:
I think quite the opposite. I have no issue with saying he is extremely talented. I like much of his music and think he is up there with the best of them. I do not think he is intelligent at all. He doesn't articulate his thoughts well, he lacks emotional intelligence and what he says is far more brilliant to him than to others. But, if you are operating at the intelligence level of ha wife and her family, he is probably viewed as an Einstein so I guess it's all relative
You just don't know what you're talking about here. Go learn something about the man and then we can talk.
Yeah, okay. What should I learn? What is your evidence that he is of some brilliant intelligence?
imonlysleeping said:
It's the video that's awful. But so what? There are awful Beatles songs. There are awful Scorsese movies. The most talented artists reach beyond where they've been, and sometimes they stumble. Kanye is not somebody who has ever played it safe, whether he's writing music or making a speech at an idiotic awards show. That's something to be celebrated, not mocked. Are we really so numb and timid that we can't handle somebody disrupting something as formulaic and cynical as the VMAs by being a weirdo? We need more weirdos, especially when they're as talented as Kanye.
Oh, don't worry. It will be celebrated over and over by MTV in one of their endless "Wacky VMA Moments" shows. The best way to protest an idiotic awards show is not to show up at all, or if you have to, to say "Thanks" and walk off without giving MTV any extra footage they can use to lure advertisers for the next 10 years.
conandrob240 said:
Yeah, okay. What should I learn? What is your evidence that he is of some brilliant intelligence?
Here's a good interview with him, conducted by the director Steve McQueen. I mean, does this sound like a dumb person to you? He might be (certainly is) arrogant, but I just can't see how anyone who's actually paid attention to his career could think he's stupid.
MCQUEEN: How do you approach the visuals?
WEST: Well, I'm a trained fine artist. I went to art school from the time I was 5 years old. I was, like, a prodigy out of Chicago. I'd been in national competitions from the age of 14. I got three scholarships to art schools—to St. Xavier, to the American Academy of Art, and to the Art Institute of Chicago—and I went to the American Academy of Art. So the joke that I've actually played on everyone is that the entire time, I've actually just been a fine artist. I just make sonic paintings, and these sonic paintings have led me to become whatever people think of when you say "Kanye West." Madonna, I think, is the greatest visual musical artist that we've ever had. If you look at her photo log, the photographers that she was able to work with throughout her career framed her in the proper way. It was the proper context. It was that visual that made sure that everything was gonna cut through in a certain way. I mean, you know as much as anyone how important the visuals are. So I like to collaborate with different masters—whether it's George Condo or Nick Knight or Takashi Murakami—on the visuals that are connected to the pieces, and just have a simple high school conversation with whoever I'm working with and bring our thoughts together, but ultimately what we do is through the lens of that collaborator, and it ends up being their final hand. You know, you can go to a bunch of people who say, "Hey, I want to make a video based off of these white-trash T-shirts." But "Bound 2" is Nick Knight's take on those white-trash T-shirts, and if I went to five other artists, they would all do it in other ways. So I think that's part of the beauty of life. It's more about the art of conversation, the companionship, the friendships, and the quality of life that you get out of working—it's about the creative process even more than the final product. I think there's something kind of depressing about a product being final, because the only time a product is really final is when you're in a casket.
http://www.interviewmagazine.com/music/kanye-west/print/
Against what or whom are you judging someone who for over two decades
has become one of the best-selling artists of all time?
Kanye plays a repellent character, and does it extraordinarily well. Like him and/or his music or not, I don't get the sense that many critics here have any sense of his influencers, collaborators or his impact on pop music.
On a somewhat related note, here's an excerpt from an essay worth reading about good art made by bad people.
"Norman Mailer in a rage once tried to kill one of his wives. The painter
Caravaggio and the poet and playwright Ben Jonson both killed men in
duels or brawls. Genet was a thief, Rimbaud was a smuggler, Byron
committed incest, Flaubert paid for sex with boys. So case closed, one
is tempted to say, invoking Ms. Cornwell’s phrase: anti-Semitism,
misogyny, racism (I left that out, but there are too many examples to
cite), murderousness, theft, sex crimes. That’s not to mention the
drunkenness, drug-taking, backstabbing, casual adultery and chronic
indebtedness that we know attended (or attends) the lives of so many
people who make unquestionably good art. Why should we be surprised or
think otherwise? Why should artists be any better than the rest of us?"
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/opinion/global-agenda-magazine-good-art-bad-people.html?_r=0
Toys "R" us has always really bothered me too. I would have shopped there a lot more often if their name wasn't such a grammatical abomination.
^^ Ha! I was kind of thinking along the same lines. My mother seemed to think that listening to the Rolling Stones would turn all teenagers heroin addicts.
But seriously, asking an artist to "just shut up"? That isn't how it works.
sarahzm said:
Toys "R" us has always really bothered me too. I would have shopped there a lot more often if their name wasn't such a grammatical abomination.
It may not surprise some that the backwards R and bad grammar of the name actually did keep me out of that store when I was younger. Which is ironic, considering how terrible my general grammar actually are whenever.
I put Kanye in the same category as Trump (although I've actually purchased a Kanye record and have yet to purchase a Trump apartment). Anyway....both are divisive "characters" that generate tons of free publicity by saying provocative things. Both are arrogant and boldly proclaim their greatness. Both are clearly intelligent because they've maintained a level of extreme wealth and relevance in their respective businesses. And, in the end, we're the ones talking about them and some people still scratch their heads trying to figure out why they're so famous. Just don't pay attention! Or in MOL-speak, "don't feed the troll".
Hahaha said:
I put Kanye in the same category as Trump (although I've actually purchased a Kanye record and have yet to purchase a Trump apartment). Anyway....both are divisive "characters" that generate tons of free publicity by saying provocative things. Both are arrogant and boldly proclaim their greatness. Both are clearly intelligent because they've maintained a level of extreme wealth and relevance in their respective businesses. And, in the end, we're the ones talking about them and scratching our heads trying to figure out they're so famous. Just don't pay attention! Or in MOL-speak, "don't feed the troll".
Well, we know his wife is famous because she banged that guy once.
Yeah, sorry, not buying the arguments for intelligence. You can be simultaneously artistically talented (even genius), famous AND dumb as a doormat.
ridski said:
Hahaha said:Well, we know his wife is famous because she banged that guy once.
I put Kanye in the same category as Trump (although I've actually purchased a Kanye record and have yet to purchase a Trump apartment). Anyway....both are divisive "characters" that generate tons of free publicity by saying provocative things. Both are arrogant and boldly proclaim their greatness. Both are clearly intelligent because they've maintained a level of extreme wealth and relevance in their respective businesses. And, in the end, we're the ones talking about them and scratching our heads trying to figure out they're so famous. Just don't pay attention! Or in MOL-speak, "don't feed the troll".
Yeah, there's that.
But I've heard there was a lot of talent on display in that tape.
Full disclosure: I have not seen it. I swear!
Again, the grammar and slang wasn't the issue. And as ridiculous as the whole thing reads in text, seeing it live was 1000x worse
conandrob240 said:
Yeah, sorry, not buying the arguments for intelligence. You can be simultaneously artistically talented (even genius), famous AND dumb as a doormat.
Well, I don't even agree that it's possible to be an artistic genius who's dumb. There are different kinds of intelligence. But regardless, Kanye isn't dumb by any definition of the word. I just don't see how you could read the interview I posted and come away thinking that this is a stupid person. He might be an a-hole (although I don't even really agree with that), but dumb? No way.
Well, we clearly disagree on this point. You simply aren't going to convince me he is intelligent. Maybe dumb was a bit strong but intelligent? No way
And, yes, I want Trump to shut up also. And plenty of other celebs who really should just be quiet and do their art. Not because I am afraid of thei social commentary or radical ideas but because they just sound like asshats every time they open their mouths
conandrob240 said:
Well, we clearly disagree on this point. You simply aren't going to convince me he is intelligent. Maybe dumb was a bit strong but intelligent? No way
Your irrational resistance to the idea that this man could be intelligent is...strange. I'll leave it at that.
I just want to double check something here. We're all over 15, right?
I mean, if we weren't, we'd be having this conversation on SnapChat, yes?
ridski said:
I just want to double check something here. We're all over 15, right?
I mean, if we weren't, we'd be having this conversation on SnapChat, yes?
Rap musicians were deviating from the gangsta style back in the late 80s and early 90s and creating great "alternative" hip hop. Kanye was not breaking new ground with his style.
bettyd said:
I do like that he deviated from the gangsta style in hip hop and gave it an alternative feel. However, the constant proclaiming of how great he is and whining about not winning awards (MTV, Grammies, etc., which are meaningless in my opinion) dating back to 2004 bugs me. I feel it's a little bit of insecurity. What's the old adage? "Well done is better than well said" He can't seem to let the music speak for itself, he has to remind everyone how great it and he is. In 1966 Wichester Cathedral won the Grammy for Record of the Year. You didn't see John Lennon or James Brown or Marvin Gaye, or any of the other great artists creating great music back then, running up on stage to steal the limelight and complain. A big character flaw in Kanye West in my opinion.
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Seriously? This is awful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBAtAM7vtgc