Biden's VP Pick

drummerboy said:

Yeah, while the article may not have explicitly said that the charge is unsupported, it was clearly kind of skeptical. Abrams' characterization of the article is not unreasonable.

I think you come away from the article with the same amount of skepticism that you brought to it.  In any case, a number of individuals have come forth since that article was written to say that the alleged victim shared her story with them at the time in addition to the audio recording of the alleged victim's mother.

If, when it comes to powerful and important members of her own party, Abrams is not going to "believe the women" that is what it is but, in the interest of honesty, she shouldn't pretend that she is basing that decision on some nonexistent authoritative conclusion of the New York Times.

basil said:

You have to admit you are a bit biased against Biden (I am being very generous here)

 I am a more than a bit biased against anyone who rapes or otherwise sexually violates another person.  I think even the most cursory review of my posts over the last ten years will show that this has been a running theme throughout them all.  I have my reasons for feeling very strongly about this issue.

Klinker said:

 I am a more than a bit biased against anyone who rapes or otherwise sexually violates another person.  I think even the most cursory review of my posts over the last ten years will show that this has been a running theme throughout them all.  I have my reasons for feeling very strongly about this issue.

 You did not come to your view about Biden as a result of this accusation. You have been attacking him for months prior to ever hearing the name Tara Reade

I'd be curious what Klinker especially, but really anyone on this thread, would think is the ideal response in the two scenarios of a) Reade's accusations are true and b) Reade's accusations are false.

I think Biden dropping out and being replaced by someone else is very unlikely, so if that's your response to scenario a, I'd like to hear what you think is the second-best outcome.

STANV said:

 You did not come to your view about Biden as a result of this accusation. You have been attacking him for months prior to ever hearing the name Tara Reade

 Yeah, Biden would not have been my third or tenth choice regardless because I am in the left (liberal) wing of the party and Biden more or less defines the right (conservative) wing of the party.  I didn't register as a Democrat because I wanted to help credit card companies make it harder for people to declare bankruptcy.

That said, the thing thing that really bothered me about Biden from the get go (aside from the fact that he was too old, too conservative and just too damn stupid to win) was all fo the stories from multiple women across multiple decades of his wandering hands.  The fact that Biden could not keep his hands out of women's hair, off of their necks or away from their lower backs was a huge tip off for me and should have been a bold faced warning for anyone who was paying attention.  They don't call the guy Great Uncle Grabby for no reason.

I sounded this alarm over and over until multiple people told me to shut up.  That said, I never wanted to be in the position to have to tell all of you that I told you so.

PVW said:

I'd be curious what Klinker especially, but really anyone on this thread, would think is the ideal response in the two scenarios of a) Reade's accusations are true and b) Reade's accusations are false.

I think Biden dropping out and being replaced by someone else is very unlikely, so if that's your response to scenario a, I'd like to hear what you think is the second-best outcome.

 I honestly don't know. You can't unrape someone.  Obviously, I think the best thing for the country would be for Biden to drop out and allow some sort of national unity candidate to be drafted at the convention.  As you probably know (because I have been saying it for months) I didn't think Biden could win even before this came out.  We need someone who can win.

That said, I suspect Biden will bumble on until November and be roundly defeated by Trump.

Klinker - why is the terminology from Reade - and on those on the news - "sexual assault" - but those who don't like Biden call it rape?

jamie said:

Klinker - why is the terminology from Reade - and on those on the news - "sexual assault" - but those who don't like Biden call it rape?

 Semantics?  Why does it matter?  Would you vote for someone who committed sexual assault but not someone who committed rape?

I take an etymological view of it.  The term rape comes from the Lating rapere meaning "to snatch, to grab, to carry off". When you sexually assault someone, you physically take their personal autonomy.  If a man slams a woman against a wall and penetrates her with his hand, that sounds like rape to me.

Back on topic - who will the democratic candidate - Joe Biden choose as his VP?

Klinker said:

I sounded this alarm over and over until multiple people told me to shut up.  That said, I never wanted to be in the position to have to tell all of you that I told you so.

Oh please

Klinker said:

They don't call the guy Great Uncle Grabby for no reason.

For the record, a Google search of Great Uncle Grabby and Biden gets three hits. No “they.” Only you.

yeah, but Creepy Uncle Joe is pretty popular. His point stands.

Klinker said:

I think you come away from the article with the same amount of skepticism that you brought to it.  In any case, a number of individuals have come forth since that article was written to say that the alleged victim shared her story with them at the time in addition to the audio recording of the alleged victim's mother.

Every piece of information should be looked at, to evaluate the claim.

The "audio recording of the alleged victim's mother" is one.  The woman on the call is not specific about what her daughter's complaint is.  And, she says her daughter didn't want to go to the press.  Is that how someone would describe a rape?  I think the call could just as easily be used to discount the rape allegation. 

DaveSchmidt said:

Klinker said:

They don't call the guy Great Uncle Grabby for no reason.

For the record, a Google search of Great Uncle Grabby and Biden gets three hits. No “they.” Only you.

He's trying to make it a thing. 

Klinker said:

 They don't call the guy Great Uncle Grabby for no reason.

 To the best of my knowledge, "Uncle Grabby" is your exclusive moniker for him. There's no "they" there.

DaveSchmidt said:

For the record, a Google search of Great Uncle Grabby and Biden gets three hits. No “they.” Only you.

 True enough but believe me, survivors are calling him far worse things than GUG.

The Times has a new article on the subject that explains the origins of Abrams statement.  Apparently, Abrams was speaking from a list of talking points that had been distributed by the Biden campaign and was subsequently hastily withdrawn.

The Biden campaign talking points, which were first reported by BuzzFeed News, instruct supporters to describe the candidate as a “fierce advocate for women” who has never faced any “complaint, allegation, hint or rumor of any impropriety or inappropriate conduct.” The talking points also inaccurately suggested that an investigation by The New York Times this month found that “this incident did not happen.”

In a statement issued Wednesday, The Times noted that the investigation “made no conclusion either way.”

NYT: Democratic Frustration Mounts as Biden Remains Silent on Sexual Assault Allegation

From the article:

One person who received a version of these talking points said it was pulled back by the campaign several hours later because the campaign was revising its strategy

It is still unclear whether Abrams actually read the article and purposefully mischaracterized its conclusion or was simply speaking from the talking points that had been supplied to her.

Klinker said:

 They don't call the guy Great Uncle Grabby for no reason.

 The didn't call Hillary Clinton "Crooked Hillary" for no reason.

You have a problem with certain types of physical contact. I have known people who called themselves "huggers". I think they were mostly women but they preferred hugging to shaking hands when they met someone.

And Biden was not my first choice this year but he is not stupid and not "conservative" as that term is commonly used in contemporary politics.

Of course, as I believe I have previously stated I would support Anthony Weiner over the spawn of Satan. 

jamie said:

Back on topic - who will the democratic candidate - Joe Biden choose as his VP?

 From today's Political Playbook.

JOE BIDEN’S V.P. SELECTION COMMITTEE: former Sen. CHRIS DODD, L.A. Mayor ERIC GARCETTI, Rep. LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER of Delaware and former Biden counsel CYNTHIA HOGAN. BOB BAUER, LISA MONACO and DANA REMUS will also work on the vetting. At a fundraiser Wednesday, BIDEN said he hopes to be done with vetting by July, per WSJ’s KEN THOMAS.

STANV said:

 The didn't call Hillary Clinton "Crooked Hillary" for no reason.

This is a different set of "theys" and they have good reasons (such as a credible rape allegation)

You have a problem with certain types of physical contact. 

Just the unwanted types.  There is no excuse for touching a person you do not know well without their permission.  There is even less excuse for kissing their head, rubbing your hands in their hair or nuzzling their neck.  I think as a society we can all agree that this sort of thing ought to be out of bounds.

Of course, as I believe I have previously stated I would support Anthony Weiner over the spawn of Satan.

If it comes down to it, I will vote for the guy with only one credible rape allegation even though I don't think he has a cheese burgers chance in the White House of winning.  Given the choice, however, I would prefer to vote for a candidate who has no rape allegations and who can win.  I don't think it is too late to avoid continuing this ongoing catastrophe.

STANV said:

jamie said:

Back on topic - who will the democratic candidate - Joe Biden choose as his VP?

 From today's Political Playbook.

JOE BIDEN’S V.P. SELECTION COMMITTEE: former Sen. CHRIS DODD, L.A. Mayor ERIC GARCETTI, Rep. LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER of Delaware and former Biden counsel CYNTHIA HOGAN. BOB BAUER, LISA MONACO and DANA REMUS will also work on the vetting. At a fundraiser Wednesday, BIDEN said he hopes to be done with vetting by July, per WSJ’s KEN THOMAS.

 Nevermind - this thread and any discussion about Biden will be hijacked into a uncle grabby rape thread.

I will start a new Biden VP thread

jamie said:

I will start a new Biden VP thread

 I hope you can prevent that from being hijacked.

jamie said:

 Nevermind - this thread and any discussion about Biden will be hijacked into a uncle grabby rape thread.

Sigh.  I truly wish I was privileged enough that I could care about these issues as little as you evidently do.  

The discussion of the rape allegations was a direct response to prospective Vice President candidate Stacy Abrams' assertion (apparently made at the behest of the Biden campaign) that the New York Times had ruled that the charges were not credible.  As this was not, in fact, the case, it raised issues about her suitability to serve in the position of Vice President.

^^^ This. There’s also the related issue, which Brian Lehrer discussed today with the New York Magazine writer Rebecca Traister, of how any running mate will handle Tara Reade’s allegation, especially since the pick will be a woman.

I’m guessing the sinking here isn’t accidental.

ETA: I guess I was wrong about its sinking.

DaveSchmidt said:

^^^ This. There’s also the related issue, which Brian Lehrer discussed today with the New York Magazine writer Rebecca Traister, of how any running mate will handle Tara Reade’s allegation, especially since the pick will be a woman.

 Fine, but that's different from a back-and-forth on the merits.

I wish Ms. Nan was still hanging around, then she and Mr. Klinker could link arms in a real "Kumbaya" thread dedicated to the allegations against Great Uncle Groper.

Not "Groper". Klinker's term is "Grabby".