Best countries for American conservatives if the USA were to elect a Social Democrat
shoshannah said:
I still want to know which other country most closely matches what conservatives want to see here with regard to social (illegal abortion, no gay rights, no equal pay for equal work, no civil rights, prayer in school, teaching creationism in public schools, no worker protections, et al.) and economic (no financial regulations) policies.
USA circa 1890.
That is the country they yearn for.
BrickPig said:
shoshannah said:I'm not a conservative, but I can tell you how the (many) conservative members of my family would answer: There are no countries that fit that description, because no other countries are as good as the USA. I have been told this in as many words, repeatedly, whenever I have made comments in the past comparing anything I admire about other countries (healthcare policy, for example).
I still want to know which other country most closely matches what conservatives want to see here with regard to social (illegal abortion, no gay rights, no equal pay for equal work, no civil rights, prayer in school, teaching creationism in public schools, no worker protections, et al.) and economic (no financial regulations) policies.
Have any of them traveled in a meaningful way outside of the US?
I'd be curious. Next time you are with them point out that the Philippines has just about everything they like. Would they like it there?
They love it here. They've got flags and stuff to prove it. They would just love it a whole lot more if the things you cite were in place. Or if you weren't here to challenge them on it. Talking about some mythical other place for them to move to is a fools errand... after all, it's not like they said they go anywhere, unlike the plethora of liberal elite mouthpieces voluntarily claiming they'd move if Trump were elected.
Most of them have been to Europe, but only for vacation and only to the most touristy destinations. So, "meaningful"? Not in the context Of altering their world view. But I'd guess it is probably typical of the experience of the vast majority of Americans.
shoshannah said:
BrickPig said:
shoshannah said:I'm not a conservative, but I can tell you how the (many) conservative members of my family would answer: There are no countries that fit that description, because no other countries are as good as the USA. I have been told this in as many words, repeatedly, whenever I have made comments in the past comparing anything I admire about other countries (healthcare policy, for example).
I still want to know which other country most closely matches what conservatives want to see here with regard to social (illegal abortion, no gay rights, no equal pay for equal work, no civil rights, prayer in school, teaching creationism in public schools, no worker protections, et al.) and economic (no financial regulations) policies.
Have any of them traveled in a meaningful way outside of the US?
I'd be curious. Next time you are with them point out that the Philippines has just about everything they like. Would they like it there?
ctrzaska said:
They love it here. They've got flags and stuff to prove it. They would just love it a whole lot more if the things you cite were in place. Or if you weren't here to challenge them on it. Talking about some mythical other place for them to move to is a fools errand... after all, it's not like they said they go anywhere, unlike the plethora of liberal elite mouthpieces voluntarily claiming they'd move if Trump were elected.
I won't be staying here if DJT continues dismantling our institutions and turns our federal government into a permanent kleptocracy. I wont be staying here if the anti-semitism that he has unleashed and enabled becomes entrenched and endangers my family. I am in a wait-and-see mode. Wait and see if his treason is uncovered and he is removed from office. Wait and see how 2018 goes. But I am at the ready.
What's your point? You are glad that rising anti-semitism is driving Jews out of the country?
Based on the OPs criteria, Israel could be a conservatives choice:
- In 2016 corporate income tax rate was 25%.
- Most properties sold in Israel are exempt from capital gains tax
- Guns are available and citizens must obtain a firearms license
- The country is very nationalistic
- Religion (Judaism) plays a huge role in the country
- There are lots of walls
But
- Same-sex marriage is not legal in Israel
- Divorce is legal, however, a husband's, or wife's, consent is necessary to end a marriage
- Although abortion is permitted in most cases. It is determined by a termination committee
Israel has personal income tax as high as 50%. Might be a deal breaker for some people
Um, Israel was founded on socialist principles and still has a significant social welfare system including universal health care, long-term care, pensions, maternity benefits, and much more. Participation in the national health insurance program is mandated. Oopsy. No good for our conservatives.
A private citizen is allowed to own a gun but does not have a RIGHT to own a gun. Gun ownership is heavily regulated. You have to apply and prove that you need one. You can be—and many are—refused, having nothing to do with a background check. If you are approved, there are stringent requirements and limits, including training, licensing, and periodic retraining and relicensing. Also, there's a limit to the number of guns you can own. Oopsy again for our conservatives.
If conservatives like freedom, Hong Kong has just been ranked the world's freest economy.
They'll just have to get used to free health care, no guns, low crime, and leaders who are more articulate in three languages than Donnie Moscow is in one.
Also, many women are unable to gain their husband's consent to a religious divorce (gett), despite being entitled to it, and remain "chained" (agunah). There are various reasons for this unfortunate situation, and we've been fighting for decades to have the rabbinic councils change the rulings but that's the way it is at present.
Ha! - only about 35% of Americans own a passport so they aren't going to Europe - even just the touristy destinations.
BrickPig said:
Most of them have been to Europe, but only for vacation and only to the most touristy destinations. So, "meaningful"? Not in the context Of altering their world view. But I'd guess it is probably typical of the experience of the vast majority of Americans.
dave said:
If conservatives like freedom, Hong Kong has just been ranked the world's freest economy.
http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1693954/hong-kong-ranked-worlds-freest-economy-21st-year-row-think-tank
They'll just have to get used to free health care, no guns, low crime, and leaders who are more articulate in three languages than Donnie Moscow is in one.
And immobile food trucks.
What's the point of economic freedom if it doesn't bring prosperity?
terp said:
Ha. You realize my quote is right below that. That is a statement of fact, as the study that you derided early on for no reason other than you didn't like it's conclusions is about Economic Freedom.
I'm sure this matters little to you because you don't care about freedom. You want the elites to decide what freedoms people have, which poor people will be killed by "Mindless Killers". Hey, as long as the leader is polite you are ok.
Just wondering: How many of these points do you agree with?
I don't understand your point about the points.
I think the answer is the same as what is the country for Dems if Trump is elected - damned near everyone is best off here in the U.S.
Anthem said:
I think the answer is the same as what is the country for Dems if Trump is elected - damned near everyone is best off here in the U.S.
Nah. Not if antisemitism continues on its current trajectory.
Even without antisemitism, I think my family would be better off in a country with universal health care.
Shoshannah covered a good bit of what is wrong in this list, but there's more:
*There is absolutely no requirement that citizens obtain a firearms license. As Shoshannah highlighted, gun ownership is very highly regulated.
*There is no such thing as civil marriage in Israel. All marriages of Jews are carried out by the rabbinate. Gay couples commonly get married somewhere in Europe, and they have full rights upon their return. Gay couples adopt children and have pregnancy surrogates.
* Divorce requires the husband's consent.
lord_pabulum said:
Based on the OPs criteria, Israel could be a conservatives choice:
- In 2016 corporate income tax rate was 25%.
- Most properties sold in Israel are exempt from capital gains tax
- Guns are available and citizens must obtain a firearms license
- The country is very nationalistic
- Religion (Judaism) plays a huge role in the country
- There are lots of walls
But
- Same-sex marriage is not legal in Israel
- Divorce is legal, however, a husband's, or wife's, consent is necessary to end a marriage
- Although abortion is permitted in most cases. It is determined by a termination committee
dave said:
If conservatives like freedom, Hong Kong has just been ranked the world's freest economy.
http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1693954/hong-kong-ranked-worlds-freest-economy-21st-year-row-think-tank
They'll just have to get used to free health care, no guns, low crime, and leaders who are more articulate in three languages than Donnie Moscow is in one.
But no books in HK. Books are bad.
Debby, I too covered husband's consent 
The plight of agunot is atrocious and unjust, and should not be ignored.
Tom_Reingold said:
I don't think I know what conservative values are any more.
This is important. I don't think there are any values that are common among all self-identifying conservatives. So what is the question, really?
I'm not a conservative, but I can tell you how the (many) conservative members of my family would answer: There are no countries that fit that description, because no other countries are as good as the USA. I have been told this in as many words, repeatedly, whenever I have made comments in the past comparing anything I admire about other countries (healthcare policy, for example).