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ridski
Discussion: Rose Garden and Washington happenings in “new normal” times

mtierney said:

I would call him a President, in the era of wanton hate and distrust, who protects himself and our government with fencing, as wise. Going forward, with whoever sits in the White House, there will be more violence, more threats, more killings, so we can look at additional fencing done now, as a necessary investment.

 Idi Amin was also a President.

Edited to add: I for one hate nobody. I don't hate this President. I have no reason to trust him, he has never given me reason to, and I yes I believe he's a career criminal with Mafia and subsequent Bratva ties, who's dumb and cruel and needlessly vindictive. I mean, that's alongside his obvious mental degradation, drug abuse and narcissistic personality disorder. 

The main take away from watching this President this past year (even if I ignore the previous years) is that he completely lacks empathy or even the ability to feign empathy. He has no idea what that is. At a time when other Presidents would be trying to listen to protestors concerns and and worst pretend to care - maybe start a commission or task force like the one Obama started during his Presidency that Trump disbanded. 

Instead, we've seen time and again that his only solution is excessive violence against people. People are frightened and angry at a system which would most definitely have done nothing if George Floyd's murder was caught on video the way it was, and on the other side a President who incapable of caring. Mtierney often remarks that Trump isn't a politician, yet the office of the Presidency is a political position, and he's been in it for 3.5 years. He needs to learn to become one, because right now he's barely a human being.

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PVW
Discussion: Minnesota and more on fire. The cops riot in response.

terp said:

PVW said:

terp said:


 Funny too how the complaints about the mass gatherings stopped all of a sudden.

I suppose you could have made the same remark about last week's protestors in Hong Kong, though I very much doubt they are unaware of the danger of COVID-19. Nor does it seem likely that the protestors in Minneapolis, whose communities have borne a disproportionate impact from the virus, are unaware of the danger. Both groups have to weigh the risks in deciding whether to make a stand -- against the end of "one country, two systems" in the one case, and it's stubborn persistence in the other.

 Because really, that's what this is about -- a protest against an unfair two-tier society, which the police have not created but are merely enforcing. If by bringing up Balko's book you were trying to make some kind of argument about how federal funding and programs somehow means the Minnesota police aren't really a local force, you can put your kilt away.

Chauvin didn't use any fancy federally-provided equipment to kill Floyd. And while the Minneapolis police have acted in direct defiance of the local leaders they are theoretically answerable to, it's not because they are actually agents of an oppressive national government.

This isn't really about the police in the end, but about this county's racial hierarchy. Sometimes it's agents of the national government enforcing it, but usually it's state or local officials. It isn't even always the police -- individuals take it upon themselves, citing reasons from listening to the wrong music to jogging in the wrong neighborhood to looking at the wrong woman.

This goes way back, and it is tyranny certain as any feared by any Gadsden flag waver, but it's sources aren't an oppressive central state.

By all means, we should aim for a demilitarization of the military. That's a good and worthy goal. And we should follow that up with a demilitarization of our populace too. Contra John Lott, more guns mean more death.

But behind all that -- the reason the cops are so heavily armed, and the reason white men with long guns feel entitled to threaten violence in defense of their "rights," is the same reason being an "essential worker" means you're probably making minimum wage and hoping to god the man proudly refusing to wear a mask while demanding service at your place of employment isn't contagious.

I do think race is an issue.  Is the criminal justice system biased against black people from top to bottom?  It sure is. 

But it is possible for there to be more than one issue.  The police are out of control in general.  They kill a lot of people regardless of race and often in cold blood.  And the tendency is that they don't get punished.  And I should be clear that I do no think all police are bad or anything.  They are put in a difficult position, but they often act with impunity.    There was actually a similar incident earlier this year in Texas. 

And I agree that private citizens do some really horrible things.  And some are motivated by race.  But the vast majority of murders are intra-racial.  That isn't to say that racially motivated crime isn't an issue, but it is what is focused on by the press. 

Regarding  the militarization of the police.  There are elements including equipment, techniques and mindset.  These police were not protecting and serving. They were fighting enemies.  If you follow any Palestinian journalists online there is chatter that the IDF uses this same technique as a matter of course on Palestinians.  

And on the trend of militarization:  Are you saying that the growing militarization of the police is a reflection of the growing racism in this country?   

It’s not so much that I disagree with your points here, as that I feel they miss the mark. Black Americans are victims of violence by the police and by other Americans in a way that is notable and unique. It is not the case that police targeting of and killing of black Americans is just a part of a general problem with our police – it is a distinct issue.

Yes, the police “kill a lot of people regardless of race and often in cold blood,” but they specifically and disproportionately target and kill people of color. Yes, there are many murders in this country, most of those are intra-racial, but when the topic is specifically about how and why white people kill black people, it’s a change of topic to talk about murders in general. Yes, I agree with you that when we talk about militarization by the police, the problem is that they see themselves as fighting enemies rather than protecting and serving, but to leave it at that ignores the fact that it’s specifically people of color who the police default to assuming are enemies.

It may not have been your intent, but this post feels rhetorically similar to saying "all lives matter." Well of course they do, but that's changing the subject and, in doing so, dismissing the idea that there is something unique to the experience of people of color going on here. If we did not have the war on drugs, did not have a trend of increased militarization of the police, did not have as many guns both in state and civilian hands, fewer white people would be dead -- but I'm pretty certain that George Floyd still would be.

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jamie
Discussion: Squirrel Ninja Warrior

What a great idea!

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basil
Discussion: Minnesota and more on fire. The cops riot in response.

terp said:

 I don't know.  It strikes me as a pretty popular sentiment on this board. 

Turning this into an NRA commercial? Never miss an opportunity to set a new low, do you? What are you proposing we do next? Shoot up some schools?

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musicmz
Discussion: My new roomate needs a name

I learned the scissors trick when I worked in the city and I watched a worker maintain the office plants.  Recently found out that the tips can die off from tap water with too much chlorine or fluoride.  I keep a pitcher of water out for 24 hours before using it to water. 

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PVW
Discussion: Minnesota and more on fire. The cops riot in response.

Bringing up looting and violence feels, yet again, like an attempt to change the topic. The demonstrations began as a protest against the fact that people of color, and especially black men, are disproportionately targeted, injured, and killed by the police. The demonstrations have continued with this as their focus. Some looting and some violence has occurred, but that's been a sideshow, and when violence has broken out, it seems odd to specifically call out civilians who are doing this but remain silent on the police police doing it. To make "riot/looting/property" the focus feels like a choice to turn away from the larger story.

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flimbro
Discussion: Minnesota and more on fire. The cops riot in response.

Morganna said:

terp said:

 I agree.  I think many of the rioters are out of control as well.  This is pretty unpleasant to watch. 

 I don't know what was removed but I agree with your statement that many of the rioters are out of control as well. The scenes in Atlanta at the CNN building and the scene outside the White House were dangerous.

I don't accept the right of anyone to throw rocks at cops. It's perverse to protest for an end to prejudice and injustice and then do the same. Do we demand that all cops pay with their lives or their jobs for what some cops did?

 I don’t accept the right of agents of the state to kill unarmed American citizens with impunity. I don’t accept the the idea that agents of the state exist above the law that they are sworn to uphold and have no accountability for their actions. I don’t accept the idea that any building is worth more than the life of one human. I don’t accept the idea that privilege allows one to “start” history where it’s convenient- as in starting history with the throwing of rocks or setting of fires instead of with the stealing of a precious life and the destruction of a family.  

One day Black Americans won’t be targeted by law enforcement because of the color of their skin and at that precise moment ALL cops will cease being responsible for the actions of a few.

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RobB
Discussion: Police brutality in response to the protests. National guard seems to be as bad.

https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1267119621951217667

I’m trying hard to not say anything disparaging about police in general, but there’s clearly a systemic problem with law enforcement in this country. And no it didn’t start last week or last year or 3 years ago. 


I’m a middle aged middle class white guy and I can see it clear as day. If you can’t - I don’t know what to tell you. 

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max_weisenfeld
Discussion: South Orange Reservation Mask wearing

What notupset's article misses, as do some of the researchers quoted, are the key differences between covid and the flu.  Chief among those may be  the long incubation period of covid and its transmissability during that asymptomatic period.  This is what masks address.  My mask is less to keep me safe than it is to keep me, should I be asymptomaticly affected, from infecting you.  

And since, should you become infected you might infect others, no, you do not get a choice as to whether to wear a mask.  Your right to light matches does not extend to the tinder at my feet. There is a general societal good here that overrules your inconvenience Like  3 Likes
ml1
Discussion: Rose Garden and Washington happenings in “new normal” times

mtierney said:

As long as rioters are part of the protesters, physically, if not, kindred spirits, the violence, wanton destruction and disregard for the livelihoods of others by rioters diminish and demean public outrage over police brutality. The rioters appear to be professional agitators for the most part with a goal to discredit protesters. One woman arrested turned out to have a rap sheet of 11 arrests in 11 different cities! 
The scenes of mayhem, destruction, and criminal looting become the big story on our screens and in our newspapers. Not the tragic murder of George Floyd.

Condoning the looting , as a natural expression of rage, legitimizes the actions of looters.

Most of the destruction hurts small businesses— from the cup cake bakery start-up to the jewelry store newly remodeled. Many small business are created in sections of cities with lower rents.

There is no rationale for targeting major retailers, such Macy’s, other than to steal and destroy .

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/06/04/trump_team_whatever_happened_to_social_distancing.html

 that article is 40 shades of stupid.  To equate protests demanding a haircut to protests against unarmed black people being killed (as well as all the other deadly aspects of racism) is asinine. Anyone who can't see the difference between taking a health risk to stand up against deadly racism and taking health risks for selfish notions of personal "freedom" is an idiot.

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