Why is the "Resistance" giving warrantless surveillance power to Trump?

Nancy

Who needs enemies when you have friends like the corporate Democrats, especially Nancy Pelosi.  They helped pass 256-164, reauthorized Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act,before it expired. There were some Democrats who opposed it but 55 of them supported this bill.  Now they can search your phone calls, on-line communication, texts, etc. anytime they want.  Just the kind of power we want Trump to have, right?


The Same Democrats Who Denounce Donald Trump as a Lawless, Treasonous Authoritarian Just Voted to Give Him Vast Warrantless Spying Powers

excerpt: 

"The law serves as the legal backing for two mammoth NSA programs revealed by Edward Snowden: Upstream, which collects information from the internet junctions where data passes in and out of the country, and PRISM, which collects communications from U.S.-based internet companies, like Google, Microsoft, Apple, and Yahoo.

The programs rest on the notion that they are “targeting” foreigners, but they also collect massive amounts of data on Americans, including wholly domestic communications. Amazingly, the intelligence community has never disclosed how much. Numerous members of Congress have requested an estimate since 2011, but both the Obama and Trump administrations have refused to provide one.

The bill also consolidates the FBI’s legal authority to search those communications without a warrant. Under current rules, the NSA shares certain kinds of information it collects under Section 702 with the FBI, whose agents can then search it in the course of investigating crimes unrelated to national security. In a secret court hearing in 2015, a lawyer for the Justice Department compared the frequency of those searches to the use of Google. . . "


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nakaille

When did Nancy Pelosi become the head of the "resistance movement"?  Why conflate corporatism and resistance?  


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Nancy


nakaille said:

When did Nancy Pelosi become the head of the "resistance movement"?  Why conflate corporatism and resistance?  

Because the corporatism is pretending to be the resistance.  Nancy Pelosi is a leading Democrat.  Last June she kicked off the "Summer of Resistance." ( http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/democrats-kick-off-anti-trump-resistance-summer/article/2624624).   At the rally she said that, "Democrats would work to stop the GOP agenda and Trump."  Key elections are coming in 2018 and the Democrats need to rebuild before those.  So it was surprising to see her push for allowing warentless survaillence, a tool that could be used by Trump to undermine resistence efforts.  Seems hypocritical to me.  I've been critical of the corporate Democrats and this is one more example of why I think the Democrats don't seem to learn from their wipeout in 2016.  It would have only taken 26 Democrats to kill this bill or assure it had an amendment to require a warrent to do survaillence. Instead they got a "Thank You!" from Paul Ryan.  Some resistance.

Here is another excerpt from my original link specifically on Pelosi:

" . . . Joining the pro-surveillance coalition led by Trump, Paul Ryan, Devin Nunes, Schiff, and Swalwell was the House’s liberal icon and senior Democrat, Nancy Pelosi. The San Francisco Democrat also stood on the House floor and offered a vigorous defense of the Trump-endorsed bill that would extend to Trump’s FBI the power to spy on Americans without warrants, in the process denouncing the minimal warrant safeguards favored by many in her own party. Pelosi’s speech earned praise from GOP House Speaker Paul Ryan: “I want to thank [Pelosi] for coming up and speaking against the Amash amendment, and in favor of the underlying bipartisan [bill].”

In one sense, Pelosi’s pro-surveillance stance is not surprising. Back in the summer of 2013, as the Snowden revelations of mass domestic surveillance sparked a global debate about privacy and abuse of spying powers, an extraordinary bipartisan alliance formed in Congress to impose serious limits on the NSA’s power to spy on Americans without warrants. Back then, a bill that would have imposed real limits and safeguards on the NSA, one jointly sponsored by Conyers and Amash, unexpectedly picked up large numbers of supporters from both parties — despite opposition from both parties’ congressional leadership — to the point where it looked like it was unstoppably headed for passage.

Official Washington and its national security community began to panic over what looked to be the first rollback of government national security power since the 9/11 attack. Fortunately for the NSA, CIA, and FBI, they found a crucial ally to kill the bill: Nancy Pelosi. Behind the scenes, she had pressured and coerced enough House Democrats to oppose the reform bill, ensuring its narrow defeat. The Conyers/Amash bill — which would have severely limited domestic mass surveillance — was defeated by the razor-thin margin of 217-205. Foreign Policy magazine correctly identified the key author of its defeat, the person who singlehandedly saved NSA mass surveillance in the U.S.: [Nancy Pelosi] "


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LOST

I see "The Resistance" as a grass roots movement. Of course establishment politicians will try to co-opt it, but "the people" must pressure the politicians. In fact it is the people who must lead.


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Nancy


LOST said:

I see "The Resistance" as a grass roots movement. Of course establishment politicians will try to co-opt it, but "the people" must pressure the politicians. In fact it is the people who must lead.

So, how does that work?   We pressure which politicians to do what?  Did people pressure Nancy Pelosi to gift Trump with uninterrupted warrantless surveillance of all Americans?   Are we supposed to just ignore that and just keep thinking our only problem is Trump?


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LOST

I have mentioned other movements in my posts.

You march, you rally, you petition, you organize.


A few weeks before his death in 1895, Douglass was asked what advice he would give to a young black American. “Agitate! Agitate! Agitate!” the old man answered.

Douglass, Frederick.


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Nancy

And what do you march for?  Who do you protest?


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shoshannah

Look, this bad **** can only happen if we, the people, allow it to happen. We—you and I and everyone in the USA—can stop this in a couple weeks if we had the will to do so. MILLIONS of citizens need to be in the streets, in sustained, peaceful protest for days and weeks on end. MILLIONS. In Washington. In New York. In Chicago. In Boston. In Los Angeles. In Des Moines. IN. THE. STREETS.

The reason this is not happening? Two things: 1. Mueller. We are expecting Mueller to end it all. We are putting it all in his hands. As long as the investigation goes on, we have the false sense that "something" is being "done."  2. Social media. Before social media people had a need to gather in the marketplace, to gather in the town square, in the city streets for mutual support and to commune with others about what they are seeing with their own eyes and to derive energy and motivation from others. Now we can do that on Facebook and MOL.


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Nancy

This bad ****** just happened, thanks to the Democrats, not Trump.  Mueller will not be of use here.


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LOST

Nan,

shoshannah answered your questions. Do you have an alternative?


nan said:

And what do you march for?  Who do you protest?



shoshannah said:

Look, this bad **** can only happen if we, the people, allow it to happen. We—you and I and everyone in the USA—can stop this in a couple weeks if we had the will to do so. MILLIONS of citizens need to be in the streets, in sustained, peaceful protest for days and weeks on end. MILLIONS. In Washington. In New York. In Chicago. In Boston. In Los Angeles. In Des Moines. IN. THE. STREETS.



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author

During the horrible years of the Greek Military Junta,  Democracy and all civil liberties were suspended

Thousands were arrested and certainly hundreds died...........the bodies of their attorneys washing up on the shores of various islands.  This was not a thousand years ago.  It was 1964 through 1971

During this George Papandreau the respected politician died.  His funeral was held in Athens.  A quarter of

a million people filled the streets and eventually surrounded the Parliament Building.  There were calls to

seize the building in what would have been a symbolic gesture.  Tanks lined the streets and there was no

hesitation on the part of the bastards to fire upon their own people.  Eventually the crowds dispersed

but the idea remained and bore fruit eventually when the students at the Polytech Institute seized the

buildings and grounds and built their own radio...........it began




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Nancy

I don't understand what she is saying.  I am talking about how the Democrats just voted for us to be be under surveillance without a warrant.  I'm confused by her answer.  Is she saying we should march in the streets to protest Democrats or just Trump or what.  I agree we should be marching in the streets about this so if that is what she is saying, I agree with her.

LOST said:

Nan,

shoshannah answered your questions. Do you have an alternative?



nan said:

And what do you march for?  Who do you protest?






shoshannah said:

Look, this bad **** can only happen if we, the people, allow it to happen. We—you and I and everyone in the USA—can stop this in a couple weeks if we had the will to do so. MILLIONS of citizens need to be in the streets, in sustained, peaceful protest for days and weeks on end. MILLIONS. In Washington. In New York. In Chicago. In Boston. In Los Angeles. In Des Moines. IN. THE. STREETS.



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author


nan said:

I don't understand what she is saying.  I am talking about how the Democrats just voted for us to be be under surveillance without a warrant.  I'm confused by her answer.  Is she saying we should march in the streets to protest Democrats or just Trump or what.  I agree we should be marching in the streets about this so if that is what she is saying, I agree with her.
LOST said:

Nan,

shoshannah answered your questions. Do you have an alternative?



nan said:

And what do you march for?  Who do you protest?






shoshannah said:

Look, this bad **** can only happen if we, the people, allow it to happen. We—you and I and everyone in the USA—can stop this in a couple weeks if we had the will to do so. MILLIONS of citizens need to be in the streets, in sustained, peaceful protest for days and weeks on end. MILLIONS. In Washington. In New York. In Chicago. In Boston. In Los Angeles. In Des Moines. IN. THE. STREETS.


When fully 40 percent of the population still supports the moron no change will happen

But even more pressing is that the majority who want him out are "sunshine patriots".......they will

go to a march if the weather is nice.............they will send checks and do all the liberal book will allow

like signing petitions.   And there the line is drawn..........they will not fill the jails,  clog the courts

or do anything outside the purveyance of the law.  And that is a pretty big net.  Civil Disobedience is translated as disorderly conduct and of course is cause for arrest.

There is a world of difference between a liberal and a radical.  Of course Gandhi,  Thoreau and Martin

Luther King were considered radicals and shunned half way measures.  And it cost all of them


"The tree of Liberty is watered by the blood of patriots"..........Tom Paine







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nohero

I know, some of them couldn't even bring themselves to vote for Hillary Clinton to keep him out. 

author said:
But even more pressing is that the majority who want him out are "sunshine patriots".......they will

go to a march if the weather is nice.............they will send checks and do all the liberal book will allow

like signing petitions.   And there the line is drawn..........they will not fill the jails,  clog the courts

or do anything outside the purveyance of the law.  And that is a pretty big net.  Civil Disobedience is translated as disorderly conduct and of course is cause for arrest.

There is a world of difference between a liberal and a radical.  Of course Gandhi,  Thoreau and Martin

Luther King were considered radicals and shunned half way measures.  And it cost all of them




"The tree of Liberty is watered by the blood of patriots"..........Tom Paine



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author


nohero said:

I know, some of them couldn't even bring themselves to vote for Hillary Clinton to keep him out. 

author said:
But even more pressing is that the majority who want him out are "sunshine patriots".......they will

go to a march if the weather is nice.............they will send checks and do all the liberal book will allow

like signing petitions.   And there the line is drawn..........they will not fill the jails,  clog the courts

or do anything outside the purveyance of the law.  And that is a pretty big net.  Civil Disobedience is translated as disorderly conduct and of course is cause for arrest.

There is a world of differ.;.ence between a liberal and a radical.  Of course Gandhi,  Thoreau and Martin

Luther King were considered radicals and shunned half way measures.  And it cost all of them




"The tree of Liberty is watered by the blood of patriots"..........Tom Painend

Better yet they should have voted for Bernie.  Now it has been proven that the DNC stacked the deck for

her highness. And one of their reforms was to cut the amount of super delegates in half. And why was

the head of the DNC made to resign.   It was supposed to be a neutral organization.  It was not and paid for it's sins.  So did the whole country.  The Democrats lost their

souls and lost an election a penguin could have one.  Always beware the anointed ones

The Democratic Party did not allow a level playing field.  And now they are crying real wet tears


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author

 PS.  I never have and never will vote for the lesser of two evils.  My vote is precious and if I must find

a fourth party candidate..............they will be my champion


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drummerboy

That means you vote for more evil.

Congratulations on a fine moral choice!

author said:

 PS.  I never have and never will vote for the lesser of two evils.  My vote is precious and if I must find

a fourth party candidate..............they will be my champion



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author


drummerboy said:

That means you vote for more evil.

Congratulations on a fine moral choice!ooo

author said:

 PS.  I never have and never will vote for the lesser of two evils.  My vote is precious and if I must find

a fourth party candidate..............they will be my champion

Playing word games gets you somewhere in Scrabble...........not in real life.  If you read my whole statement you would see where my vote would go.  And it would be to neither of the evil ones


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author

Hasta La Victoria Siempre




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shoshannah

author
said:

 PS.  I never have and never will vote for the lesser of two evils.  My vote is precious and if I must find

a fourth party candidate..............they will be my champion

That's the problem. Your vote is not precious. Nobody's vote is precious. It's not about personal champions or a form of personal expression. It's not like a tattoo to express yourself. It is ONLY about the outcome. 


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Nancy

News Flash:  This thread is not about Trump.  This thread is about how the Democrats voted for warrantless surveillance on all Americans.  The Democrats who call themselves, "The Resistance."   Where is the outrage about that?   


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LOST

"The Resistance" is not the Democrats.

Are you aware of SOMA Action?


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LOST


author said:

 PS.  I never have and never will vote for the lesser of two evils.  My vote is precious and if I must find

a fourth party candidate..............they will be my champion

All that means is that you will vote for the lesser of four evils. One can choose to use his vote to exercise power by trying to affect the outcome or one can choose to use his vote as a protest. I've done both.


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Nancy


LOST said:

"The Resistance" is not the Democrats.

Are you aware of SOMA Action?

Um, yeah it is. I am aware of SOMA action. I'm on their Facebook group. Have not seen any mention of this. 


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LOST

Facebook group? Perhaps you should go to a meeting. Or maybe a Demonstration.

Hopefully most Resistance activists understand that the Democratic Party is an Establishment Party and has many elected officials who are "centrists" or "moderates" or whatever you wish to call them.


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LOST

FYI

https://www.cato.org/blog/house-votes-reauthorize-fisa-section-702-mass-surveillance-program

Cato institute is Libertarian. "Demand Progress" is part of the Resistance. Nancy Pelosi is the Establishment.


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Nancy

How is joining a group focused on impeaching Trump supposed to help with Democrats voting to give him warrentless  survaillence, the precursor to a totalitarian state?  

LOST said:

Facebook group? Perhaps you should go to a meeting. Or maybe a Demonstration.

Hopefully most Resistance activists understand that the Democratic Party is an Establishment Party and has many elected officials who are "centrists" or "moderates" or whatever you wish to call them.

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LOST


nan said:

How is joining a group focused on impeaching Trump supposed to help with Democrats voting to give him warrentless  survaillence, the precursor to a totalitarian state?  

How else do you influence Democrats to vote differently other than by creating a Movement to pressure them? The Movement can even Primary those who are not supportive of the policies favored by that Movement.

Recall how the Tea Party moved the Republicans to the Right.

The Resistance should not be only about impeaching Trump. It should be a very minor focus if at all, and then should be only a tactic.

By the way 55 Dems voted for while 125 voted against. And Congress gave Bush and Obama the same power.


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