What REALLY drove the Trump voter?
Trump supporters are saying this. Progressive pundits are saying this. Talking heads across all forms of the media are saying this. Even some Democratic leaders are saying this. It doesn’t matter how many people say it, it is complete ********. It is an intellectual/linguistic sleight of hand meant to throw attention away from the real problem. The real problem isn’t east coast elites who don’t understand or care about rural America. The real problem is rural America doesn’t understand the causes of their own situations and fears and they have shown no interest in finding out. They don’t want to know why they feel the way they do or why they are struggling because they don’t want to admit it is in large part because of choices they’ve made and horrible things they’ve allowed themselves to believe."
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/rural-america-understanding-isnt-problem#.WDUoxB7I1rk.facebook
Not an actual voter (since her immigration status does not allow her to vote), but this may provide some insight: A colleague of mine (who is an immigrant to this country, and well educated) just "didn't like Hillary". And "didn't want to hear her annoying voice anymore". So she was happy that Trump won.
It didn't matter to her that Trump's policies would likely be worse for her, her family, and the other immigrants in her community. She felt that as someone with a professional degree, she would be safe. She got most of her info from Facebook posts, and didn't even know that Trump was a TV personality.
I have a friend who has very strong views that align with the Republican Party, so not going Democratic was a given. She's a smart, articulate, well educated person. She comes from a great family which is culturally diverse. We're fast friends. However, she was so disgusted with Trump she left the Presidential selection blank. Millions of Americans opted out of choosing a president. They couldn't in good conscience choose one over the other, which I suspect gave Trump the votes by default. The first thing that came to my mind when Trump won is "wow people must really despise Hillary Clinton". Nothing else made sense to me. But I'm slowly learning it wasn't that simple.
So, she was so disgusted she enabled him by not voting for his opponent?
It's this kind of reasoning that just baffles me. It's as if all of sudden there moral center goes out the window. Or their reason.
ElizMcCord said:
I have a friend who has very strong views that align with the Republican Party, so not going Democratic was a given. She's a smart, articulate, well educated person. She comes from a great family which is culturally diverse. We're fast friends. However, she was so disgusted with Trump she left the Presidential selection blank. Millions of Americans opted out of choosing a president. They couldn't in good conscience choose one over the other, which I suspect gave Trump the votes by default. The first thing that came to my mind when Trump won is "wow people must really despise Hillary Clinton". Nothing else made sense to me. But I'm slowly learning it wasn't that simple.
as for the Hillary hate - I think a large part of it was exactly that simple. She was turned into such a caricature that people hated her as much as Trump.
Thank about that. Think about the different arcs of their lives - how do both people end up on a most despised list?
ElizMcCord said:
I have a friend who has very strong views that align with the Republican Party, so not going Democratic was a given. She's a smart, articulate, well educated person. She comes from a great family which is culturally diverse. We're fast friends. However, she was so disgusted with Trump she left the Presidential selection blank. Millions of Americans opted out of choosing a president. They couldn't in good conscience choose one over the other, which I suspect gave Trump the votes by default. The first thing that came to my mind when Trump won is "wow people must really despise Hillary Clinton". Nothing else made sense to me. But I'm slowly learning it wasn't that simple.
Trump voters were concerned about the basics...............and the absolute bottom line in the basic category is work.
He promised to do away with treaties seen as siphoning off jobs to other countries. He was seen as a builder
who knew how to put people to work
Hillary offered applesauce. "Stronger together" meant nothing to the family who wanted work in a town where
there was none. Trump appealed to and made a pitch that he could and would furnish what people needed.
Hillary spoke smoke and mirrors. The family has nothing to offer but influence peddling and her arrogance
in using her own private e mail server which carried easily hacked national secrets was seen as threatening
author said:
Trump voters were concerned about the basics...............and the absolute bottom line in the basic category is work.
He promised to do away with treaties seen as siphoning off jobs to other countries. He was seen as a builder
who knew how to put people to work
Hillary offered applesauce. "Stronger together" meant nothing to the family who wanted work in a town where
there was none. Trump appealed to and made a pitch that he could and would furnish what people needed.
Hillary spoke smoke and mirrors. The family has nothing to offer but influence peddling and her arrogance
in using her own private e mail server which carried easily hacked national secrets was seen as threatening
You just weren't paying attention.
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2016/08/01/hillary-clintons-100-day-jobs-plan/
this is not a bad summary of the swirl inside of the mind of a Trump voter.
But you don't really see it as a swirl do you - just normal rational decision making against the unmatched peril of a, dum da num dum DUMMMM - a "private email server"..
yeah. no.
(oh yeah, and of "influence peddling" for which there is no actual evidence)
author said:
Trump voters were concerned about the basics...............and the absolute bottom line in the basic category is work.
He promised to do away with treaties seen as siphoning off jobs to other countries. He was seen as a builder
who knew how to put people to work
Hillary offered applesauce. "Stronger together" meant nothing to the family who wanted work in a town where
there was none. Trump appealed to and made a pitch that he could and would furnish what people needed.
Hillary spoke smoke and mirrors. The family has nothing to offer but influence peddling and her arrogance
in using her own private e mail server which carried easily hacked national secrets was seen as threatening
RobB said:
author said:
Trump voters were concerned about the basics...............and the absolute bottom line in the basic category is work.
He promised to do away with treaties seen as siphoning off jobs to other countries. He was seen as a builder
who knew how to put people to work
Hillary offered applesauce. "Stronger together" meant nothing to the family who wanted work in a town where
there was none. Trump appealed to and made a pitch that he could and would furnish what people needed.
Hillary spoke smoke and mirrors. The family has nothing to offer but influence peddling and her arrogance
in using her own private e mail server which carried easily hacked national secrets was seen as threatening
You just weren't paying attention.
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2016/08/01/hillary-clintons-100-day-jobs-plan/
Apparently neither were enough voters in the states containing electors who would put Trump in the White House
and Hillary out to pasture
author said:
Apparently neither were enough voters in the states containing electors who would put Trump in the White House and Hillary out to pasture
Exactly!
See, I knew we'd find common ground.
So you just admitted they voted out of gross ignorance.
You're making progress.
author said:
RobB said:
author said:
Trump voters were concerned about the basics...............and the absolute bottom line in the basic category is work.
He promised to do away with treaties seen as siphoning off jobs to other countries. He was seen as a builder
who knew how to put people to work
Hillary offered applesauce. "Stronger together" meant nothing to the family who wanted work in a town where
there was none. Trump appealed to and made a pitch that he could and would furnish what people needed.
Hillary spoke smoke and mirrors. The family has nothing to offer but influence peddling and her arrogance
in using her own private e mail server which carried easily hacked national secrets was seen as threatening
You just weren't paying attention.
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2016/08/01/hillary-clintons-100-day-jobs-plan/
Apparently neither were enough voters in the states containing electors who would put Trump in the White House
and Hillary out to pasture
author said:
RobB said:
author said:
Trump voters were concerned about the basics...............and the absolute bottom line in the basic category is work.
He promised to do away with treaties seen as siphoning off jobs to other countries. He was seen as a builder
who knew how to put people to work
Hillary offered applesauce. "Stronger together" meant nothing to the family who wanted work in a town where
there was none. Trump appealed to and made a pitch that he could and would furnish what people needed.
Hillary spoke smoke and mirrors. The family has nothing to offer but influence peddling and her arrogance
in using her own private e mail server which carried easily hacked national secrets was seen as threatening
You just weren't paying attention.
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2016/08/01/hillary-clintons-100-day-jobs-plan/
Apparently neither were enough voters in the states containing electors who would put Trump in the White House
and Hillary out to pasture
And our current President's approval ratings are outstanding. America is not so dissatisfied with our economy as they have been on the past. Certainly they are happier than 4 and 8 years ago. The biggest causes were sexism, Islamophobia, and racism (gift-wrapped as anti-immigration and isolationism).
http://www.vox.com/world/2016/11/10/13587338/president-elect-trump-racism-2-charts
And
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/9/13571676/trump-win-racism-power
Author - At some point you may want to look at data before you answer questions.
I think a lot of Trump voters don't live in the rainbow and unicorn world of drummerboy
lord_pabulum said:
I think a lot of Trump voters don't live in the rainbow and unicorn world of drummerboy
They do live in an alternate universe though.
"Trump is going to reopen the bucket factory! I'll be making $30 an hour pulling a lever every time the light turns green, just like my daddy and his daddy."
Hahaha
What a card.
lord_pabulum said:
I think a lot of Trump voters don't live in the rainbow and unicorn world of drummerboy
RobB said:
lord_pabulum said:
I think a lot of Trump voters don't live in the rainbow and unicorn world of drummerboy
They do live in an alternate universe though.
"Trump is going to reopen the bucket factory! I'll be making $30 an hour pulling a lever every time the light turns green, just like my daddy and his daddy."
Right Even though manufacturing jobs left the US 20-30 years ago
Maybe you have to be retired to have the time to read this Bannon profile, but I found it very worthwhile.
The whole crazy election process we have just sloughed thru is given clarity. Political junkies will be enthralled!
Some straight white people feel no threat from the new order, so if they're longing for the days of yore when things were simpler and the hierarchy was clear, and someone's promising it to you, what the heck. Who needs a conscience.
Again, if you voted Trump, you voted for a return to that hierarchy. There's no middle ground here. Lose the bullsiht about jobs, immigration, etc. You voted for the new boss because you are advantaged by his policies. Congrats. At least there's no conscience for you to lose.
Displaced workers are funny?
Wow!!!!
RobB said:
lord_pabulum said:
I think a lot of Trump voters don't live in the rainbow and unicorn world of drummerboy
They do live in an alternate universe though.
"Trump is going to reopen the bucket factory! I'll be making $30 an hour pulling a lever every time the light turns green, just like my daddy and his daddy."
RealityForAll said:
Displaced workers are funny?
Wow!!!!
RobB said:
lord_pabulum said:
I think a lot of Trump voters don't live in the rainbow and unicorn world of drummerboy
They do live in an alternate universe though.
"Trump is going to reopen the bucket factory! I'll be making $30 an hour pulling a lever every time the light turns green, just like my daddy and his daddy."
Funny?
Actually, the reality of many of these displaced workers.
The dream that their well-paid labor intensive jobs which are easily be replaced by automation or cheap labor will be magically resurrected.
The American dream having passed them by makes them bitter. Whereupon they get suckered by anyone promising the sky.
I think I got the message GL2: you, and your family, are superior. And the deplorables continue, and will always, be deplorables.
You may want to read the NYT article entitled "How Did Donald Trump Win Over So Many Obama Voters?"
See http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/15/upshot/how-did-trump-win-over-so-many-obama-voters.html
See map below.
GL2 said:
Some straight white people feel no threat from the new order, so if they're longing for the days of yore when things were simpler and the hierarchy was clear, and someone's promising it to you, what the heck. Who needs a conscience.
Again, if you voted Trump, you voted for a return to that hierarchy. There's no middle ground here. Lose the bullsiht about jobs, immigration, etc. You voted for the new boss because you are advantaged by his policies. Congrats. At least there's no conscience for you to lose.
RFA, did you know his beliefs? Do you agree with banning Muslims? Climate change is a hoax. Women should be punished for abortion? If so, then yes, my family and I are morally superior.
The guy's already exhibiting his mental illness, claiming massive voter fraud and condemning efforts to get recounts.
RealityForAll said:yes
Displaced workers are funny?
Wow!!!!
RobB said:
lord_pabulum said:
I think a lot of Trump voters don't live in the rainbow and unicorn world of drummerboy
They do live in an alternate universe though.
"Trump is going to reopen the bucket factory! I'll be making $30 an hour pulling a lever every time the light turns green, just like my daddy and his daddy."
It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
He's going to bring back "many millions of high paying energy and mining jobs!"
People bought this. At least Obama was just promising to "spread the wealth around."
Did you see the map of voters who previously voted BHO but voted for DJT this year?
The map in my last post tells me this situation has lot less to do with racism than economics.
PS I did not vote for DJT nor support him.
GL2 said:
RFA, did you know his beliefs? Do you agree with banning Muslims? Climate change is a hoax. Women should be punished for abortion? If so, then yes, my family and I are morally superior.
Rentals
-
Huge Brand New construction Apartment in 2 family home with 4 bedrooms 3 bathrooms
4 Bd | 3Full Ba
$4,500
Featured Events
-
Stephen Whitty Presents - Hometown Movie Stars: The Celebrated Actors Of CHS
May 6, 2024 at 7:00pm
-
'Beethoven's Wrong Note: A Steampunk Opera'
May 12, 2024 at 2:00pm
The essential part of this election - the part that will be written about for decades - is why did the Trump voter decide to vote for this objectively ridiculous, loathsome con man?
Some - the deplorables - a significant number - simply voted for him because they're racist and misogynist and xenophobic. (To deny this - as some still do because they don't want to bad-mouth the Trump voter - is absurd. Racists exist. They have the right to vote. Most voted for Trump. It is not a hard conclusion to draw.)
But your neighbor voted for Trump - and they're not obviously any of these things.
So how/why did they arrive at their decision?
And I'm looking for more elemental causes than "the economy".
Something happened to them - deep in their minds - that caused them to make a catastrophic decision.
What?
I'll post my thoughts about this during the thread. But if you haven't seen this interview with a Trump voter, you really should. I'll reserve comment about this til later too.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/the-angry-white-man-next-door-hearing-out-a-trump-voter-223547456.html