The Rose Garden and White House happenings: Listening to voters’ concerns
mtierney said:
excuse me for being out of touch with this thread’s present focus on what defines racism
Ummm..... that has pretty much been the focus since January 2017. These days, whatever happens in the Rose Garden, its bound to involve a racist.
RealityForAll said:
Most people acknowledge that the definition of racism has changed over time (hence, the request for a definition from DaveSchmidt). I asked a legitimate question and your response was a rhetorical question (my ability to identify racism was not what was in question) and an ad hominem attack. It is hard to see how we can discuss race and racism civilly if this is the kind of response that is provided by merely asking a question regarding a definition of racism (the evil to be combated).
Again, these civil diversions may interest you, but I’ll add to my earlier statement that it won’t be much of a conversation, either, if we are intent on “teasing out” a definition of racism or imply that its mutability is some kind of caveat rather than accept that our society’s toughest, centuries-old struggles are like that. Headway is made by hashing them out on those messy terms, not by making niceties.
I’ve said before, I’ve needed my share of slaps in the face during conversations to wise up about a number of things. You might ask yourself what progress America has made on racism without being slapped in the face.
mtierney said:
excuse me for being out of touch with this thread’s present focus on what defines racism — but how and why is any nation’s desire for sovereignty and the protection of its borders necessarily translate to racism? I am assuming that illegal and legal immigration is at the core of the discussion.
Never "assume". I do not recall this discussion of racism beginning as a discussion of immigration.
However there are many people in this country here "illegally" or "undocumented" who are of White European decent, but all the "outrage" is over those crossing the southern border on foot from countries with a large proportion of "Brown " people. And the current occupant of the WH began his campaign by attacking migrants from Mexico specifically and later referring to nations with predominantly non-white populations in negative terms and suggesting we need for immigrants from Norway.
There are many on "The Right" who want to seriously restrict legal immigration from south of our border.
ml1 said:
are you aware
If you are addressing whom I believe you are addressing you probably could have stopped there.
Any discussion of Trump is a discussion of a racist, a rapist and a traitor.
Congrats to the Second Amendment extremists for today's shooting. Parents are scrambling between the school and hospitals trying to locate their children. The NRA will cash in and Republicans will send thoughts and prayers.
I think most kids feel this way nowadays:
Interviewer: “Was there a part of you that was like, ‘This could not happen at my school?’”
Santa Fe High School student: “No. It’s been happening everywhere. I’ve always felt it would eventually happen here, too.”
In our country anyone can be shot almost anywhere. About the only place you can be pretty sure you won't be vulnerable is inside the White House.
spent the past few days in the hospital, awaiting release as I type here.
TV was small, perched at ceiling height, virtually inaudible in the setting, and a collection of terrible channels. I only got to see a glimpse of the royal wedding!
No NYT in sight!
Home rest and catch up reading will keep me occupied for awhile.
ml1 said:
In our country anyone can be shot almost anywhere. About the only place you can be pretty sure you won't be vulnerable is inside the White House.
Also, Congress, most state houses and governmental buildings.
You can be sure where legislators work they ensure there is rigid gun control. NRA's definition of 2nd amendment gets thrown out the window. Stop, search and if needed frisk before entry is granted. A privilege that is not extended to school kids.
Politicians are not expendable, kids are.
BG9 said:
ml1 said:Also, Congress, most state houses and governmental buildings.
In our country anyone can be shot almost anywhere. About the only place you can be pretty sure you won't be vulnerable is inside the White House.
You can be sure where legislators work they ensure there is rigid gun control. NRA's definition of 2nd amendment gets thrown out the window. Stop, search and if needed frisk before entry is granted. A privilege that is not extended to school kids.
Politicians are not expendable, kids are.
Politicians get elected. If voters would really think gun control is important, they would vote politicians into office that are pro-Gun-control and anti-NRA. The fact that that doesn't happen means one of two things: 1) majority of American voters are not for gun control, 2) they are for gun control, but do not believe it is an important enough issue to go vote.
hope you're OK now - rest up a bit if you can!
Best wishes from Australia!!
gerritn said:
BG9 said:Politicians get elected. If voters would really think gun control is important, they would vote politicians into office that are pro-Gun-control and anti-NRA. The fact that that doesn't happen means one of two things: 1) majority of American voters are not for gun control, 2) they are for gun control, but do not believe it is an important enough issue to go vote.
ml1 said:Also, Congress, most state houses and governmental buildings.
In our country anyone can be shot almost anywhere. About the only place you can be pretty sure you won't be vulnerable is inside the White House.
You can be sure where legislators work they ensure there is rigid gun control. NRA's definition of 2nd amendment gets thrown out the window. Stop, search and if needed frisk before entry is granted. A privilege that is not extended to school kids.
Politicians are not expendable, kids are.
While politicians are hypocrites, gun control for us, where we work, but not for you, I do tend to agree the fault really lies with the voters. Voters elect them and keep re-electing them.
The Great Negotiator is having trouble making a deal.
But its not his fault. It never is. This time its the Democrats (Obama) fault:
WASHINGTON — President Trump defended his administration’s approach to resolving a trade war with China in a series of tweets Monday, following three-days of negotiations with the Chinese that ended with little clarity.
Mr. Trump, in an early morning tweet, initially questioned why Democrats and the previous administration did not “do something about Trade with China” before touting his administration’s ability to get the Chinese to make concessions.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/21/business/trump-defends-china-trade-strategy.html
China has called President Trump’s bluff.
Chinese negotiators left Washington this weekend with a significant win: a willingness by the Trump administration to hold off for now on imposing tariffs on up to $150 billion in Chinese imports. China gave up little in return, spurning the Trump administration’s nudges for a concrete commitment to buy more goods from the United States, and avoiding limits on its government-led efforts to build new high-tech Chinese industries.
The trade fight is far from over. And large Chinese technology companies in particular could still be vulnerable if the United States decides to start punching again, with administration officials appearing to back away from Mr. Trump’s pledges to help ZTE, a Chinese telecommunications company hit with severe American penalties.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/21/business/china-trade-trump.html
Trade wars are good and easy !!! MAGA !!! 
No doubt you’ve all already had reports like this:
I want to ask: how is this a ‘coin’? Isn’t it a medal/medallion rather than a coin? No-one has mentioned a value or denomination for it, even if it’s just collectable. Our collectable commemorative coins, for example, are special-run $2 gold coins etc.
joanne said:
No doubt you’ve all already had reports like this:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/22/donald-trump-north-korea-coin-kim-jong-un-nuclear-talks
I want to ask: how is this a ‘coin’?
More importantly: how is this our President?
To circle back on the NYT piece last week about smug liberals driving people to support Trump, there's this example of extreme projection:
83% of Trump voters thought people were too easily offended
So Trump voters think OTHER people are too easily offended, yet we are told by numerous pundits that liberals caused conservatives to support Trump because we offended them? I suppose this is possible, because most humans a) lack any degree of self-awareness, and b) often do not behave in ways that logically follow from their own stated values.
But geez really, what is the solve for this? Let conservatives insult any group they want, and those people should never get offended, while at the same time making sure to be super-respectful to Trump supporters at all times?
fuhgeddaboutit.
I think the tone of the letter issued today was respectful and strong.
What Trump is really saying in his letter to Kim Jong Un
By MICHAEL CROWLEY |
President Donald Trump on Thursday canceled his planned summit with Kim Jong Un in a written letter. The cancellation of the meeting — scheduled for June 12 in Singapore — appears to be a major blow to Trump’s desire to land a legacy-making deal with North Korea to denuclearize.
Below is the full text of the letter, annotated.
His Excellency
Kim Jong Un
Chairman of the State Affairs Commission
of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea
Pyongyang
Dear Mr. Chairman:
We greatly appreciate your time, patience, and effort with respect to our recent negotiations and discussions relative to a summit long sought by both parties, which was scheduled to take place on June 12 in Singapore.
Trump sets a respectful tone
Trump opens his letter with deference and respect to his North Korean counterpart, whom he spent much of 2017 ridiculing and insulting, but whom he has discussed almost with warmth since early March, when he accepted Kim’s invitation to meet in person.
We were informed that the meeting was requested by North Korea , but that to us is totally irrelevant. I was very much looking forward to being there with you.
This wasn't my idea
Trump not-so-subtly reminds Kim (and the rest of the world) that it was the North Koreans who proposed, via South Korean officials, that the two leaders meet. Many experts said that Trump — who did not consult with his national security team first — was overeager and ill-advised in accepting the offer and would come to regret it.
Sadly, based on the tremendous anger and open hostility displayed in your most recent statement , I feel it is inappropriate, at this time, to have this long-planned meeting.
Don't threaten me
North Korea issued the latest in a recent series of bellicose statements on Wednesday night. It dismissed hard-line talk about a nuclear deal from Vice President Mike Pence as “stupid” and warned that the failure of negotiations would lead to “nuclear-to-nuclear showdown.”
Therefore, please let this letter serve to represent that the Singapore summit, for the good of both parties, but to the detriment of the world, will not take place. You talk about your nuclear capabilities, but ours are so massive and powerful that I pray to God they will never have to be used.
Trump gets real
Trump had taken a months-long break from threatening to obliterate North Korea. But this is a strikingly bellicose line in an otherwise diplomatic letter. (It also marks yet another dramatic Trump break from a decades-old norm under which American presidents did not make explicit nuclear threats.) One danger around the possible collapse of the nuclear talks is a return to the threats and brinksmanship of 2017 which could lead to a catastrophic conflict.
I felt a wonderful dialogue was building up between you and me, and ultimately, it is only that dialogue that matters. Some day, I look very much forward to meeting you. In the meantime, I want to thank you for the release of the hostages who are now home with their families. That was a beautiful gesture and was very much appreciated.
Keeping the door open...
Trump not only does not rule out meeting Kim in the future, he makes clear that he “look[s] very much forward” to it — a remarkable way to address a brutal dictator who executes close aides and even his relatives.
If you change your mind having to do with this most important summit, please do not hesitate to call me or write. The world, and North Korea in particular, has lost a great opportunity for lasting peace and great prosperity and wealth. This missed opportunity is a truly sad moment in history.
...Wide open
Although some of Trump’s top advisers, including national security adviser John Bolton, believe there is almost no hope for cutting an amicable deal with Kim, Trump is signaling that he’s not giving up hope for a potential Nobel Prize. It is unclear whether the possibility is still realistic. Much depends on how the North Koreans respond, presumably within the coming hours, and who wants a deal more.
Sincerely yours,
Donald J. Trump
President of the United States of America
© 2018 POLITICO LLC
mtierney said:
I think the tone of the letter issued today was respectful and strong.
Trump has stated very clearly that he expects a denuclearized Korean Peninsula. That isn't going to happen without a war. What people think of the letter today -respectful and strong or middle-schooler dumping his girlfriend - does NOT alter the fact that Trump has got himself into a box canyon.
My guess is that under Trump, we will see a significant weakening of the ability of the U.S. to impose effective sanctions on other countries.
Anything beyond "grab 'em by the pu**y" is too complicated for this guy to handle.
The letter was so poorly written that it ought to be an embarrassment to our nation. I was honestly shocked that his handlers let it go out.
mtierney said:
I think the tone of the letter issued today was respectful and strong.
I was mortified at how badly written it was. The way he speaks and writes is an absolute embarrassment to our country.
read it on the politico site — it was not badly written, but the annotations in between paragraphs were highlighted, but not when copied. Agree the result was a difficult read.
mtierney said:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/999686062082535424/photo/1
Peace talks cancelled due to "open hostility".
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are you aware that net migration on the southern boarder has been negative for years? are you aware that immigrants commit crimes at a rate that is less than native-born Americans?
Yes, we are experiencing a net outflow of illegal, undocumented workers from America back to Mexico
so given that we're not being overrun by immigrants, and those who come here aren't likely to be criminals, it leads many people to think that the tirade against immigrants is likely due to the color of their skin.