What can we do to make Israel more progressive?

Given how much money conservative Israeli groups spend to advance the cause of the conservativism in the United States I was wondering whether there is anything we can do to move make Israel a more progressive place. Are there organizations working to defeat Netanyahu and his ultra right allies that we can support financially? What can a liberal American do to make Israel a better place for Israelis and a better ally for the United States?


Boy did you pick a toughie.


Start the process by refusing to donate money to any groups that use the funds for anything in Israel. Bibi and his boys understand fully the power of the purse.


At the end of the day it comes down to a religious divide. Secular Jewish Israelis (with the exception of ones from the former Soviet Union) are overwhelmingly progressive and would love to be rid of the West Bank and Gaza in a deal that provided peace. The religious Jewish community is increasingly extremist in terms of being insular, anti-progressive and irrationally tied to the West Bank. So supporting secular institutions and opposing the religious ones is the way to go.



thechamp said:

Start the process by refusing to donate money to any groups that use the funds for anything in Israel. Bibi and his boys understand fully the power of the purse.

Does that include Hadassah?



thechamp said:

Start the process by refusing to donate money to any groups that use the funds for anything in Israel. Bibi and his boys understand fully the power of the purse.

Right. But, to my mind, the goal shouldn't be to influence Netanyahu, the goal should be to get rid of him. Repeal and replace, if you will.


Donate to and  support the efforts of J Street?


How about not screaming anti-semitism every time Israel is criticized?

Gilgul said:

At the end of the day it comes down to a religious divide. Secular Jewish Israelis (with the exception of one from the former Soviet Union) are overwhelmingly progressive and would love to be rid of the West Bank and Gaza in a deal that provided peace. The religious Jewish community is increasingly extremist in terms of being insular, anti-progressive and irrationally tied to the West Bank. So supporting secular institutions and opposing the religious ones is the way to go.



Who does that? Not anyone I know.


Gilgul said:

At the end of the day it comes down to a religious divide. Secular Jewish Israelis (with the exception of one from the former Soviet Union) are overwhelmingly progressive and would love to be rid of the West Bank and Gaza in a deal that provided peace. The religious Jewish community is increasingly extremist in terms of being insular, anti-progressive and irrationally tied to the West Bank. So supporting secular institutions and opposing the religious ones is the way to go.

First time I agree with Zoinks.

Israel's social society is VERY progressive. More progressive than the U.S.



shoshannah said:


Gilgul said:

At the end of the day it comes down to a religious divide. Secular Jewish Israelis (with the exception of one from the former Soviet Union) are overwhelmingly progressive and would love to be rid of the West Bank and Gaza in a deal that provided peace. The religious Jewish community is increasingly extremist in terms of being insular, anti-progressive and irrationally tied to the West Bank. So supporting secular institutions and opposing the religious ones is the way to go.

First time I agree with Zoinks.

Israel's social society is VERY progressive. More progressive than the U.S.

And yet the right wing nutters are driving the bus. I know, I know, folks in glass houses but, given the negative effect the Israeli right in general and Bibi in particular have on American politics, what can we, as Americans, do to change the status quo?



As in America the right wing is tribal. They will vote for the party they are told to vote for and (different from America) that party will stand firm on its particular issue as a requirement of joining a coalition and care not at all about any other issue. Secular progressives are much more (to their great detriment imo) defuse. They still have the numbers to take control of the bus but it needs them to unite in a way they have not shown the ability to do so.


Also, because it's a parliamentary system, the small, fanatic religious parties have outsize control in the coalition with Likud.

But nearly everything about everyday life in Israel is WAY more progressive than here. Gun control. Required military service for women. Nationalized health care. 15 weeks paid maternity leave that can be split any way between the mother and father -- the Knesset just YESTERDAY extended it by one week (used to be 14). http://www.timesofisrael.com/knesset-extends-paid-maternity-leave-to-15-weeks/



shoshannah said:

Also, because it's a parliamentary system, the small, fanatic religious parties have outsize control in the coalition with Likud.

But nearly everything about everyday life in Israel is WAY more progressive than here. Gun control. Required military service for women. Nationalized health care. 15 weeks paid maternity leave that can be split any way between the mother and father -- the Knesset just YESTERDAY extended it by one week (used to be 14). http://www.timesofisrael.com/knesset-extends-paid-maternity-leave-to-15-weeks/" target="_blank"> http://www.timesofisrael.com/knesset-extends-paid-maternity-leave-to-15-weeks/

OK. Forget making them more progressive. How can we intervene in their politics to get them to stop working to make America even more conservative?


What about leaving Israel alone?

Just about every time we interfere in another countries affair it comes back to bite us. Are we so exceptional that we should be the decider for other countries?


What is the evidence that Israelis are trying to influence US Elections? Bibi may have favored one candidate over another but did he or his associates do anything like what Putin is alleged to have done?

What business is it of Americans to attempt to influence elections in Israel or any other foreign country?


Klinker said:

shoshannah said:

Also, because it's a parliamentary system, the small, fanatic religious parties have outsize control in the coalition with Likud.

But nearly everything about everyday life in Israel is WAY more progressive than here. Gun control. Required military service for women. Nationalized health care. 15 weeks paid maternity leave that can be split any way between the mother and father -- the Knesset just YESTERDAY extended it by one week (used to be 14). http://www.timesofisrael.com/knesset-extends-paid-maternity-leave-to-15-weeks/" target="_blank"> http://www.timesofisrael.com/knesset-extends-paid-maternity-leave-to-15-weeks/"" target="_blank">http://www.timesofisrael.com/knesset-extends-paid-maternity-leave-to-15-weeks/" target="_blank"> http://www.timesofisrael.com/knesset-extends-paid-maternity-leave-to-15-weeks/

OK. Forget making them more progressive. How can we intervene in their politics to get them to stop working to make America even more conservative?

How are they doing that? Seriously.


Here is one instance of Netanyahu working with Republicans - When he spoke to Congress at Boehners invite. 

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/03/01/netanyahu-invite-is-a-symptom-of-boehners-grudge-match-against-the-u-s-constitution/


The best way to pressure Bibi is to work to get rid of Trump as soon as possible. Historically, while supporting Israel, the US has also advocated and worked towards moderation and a two state solution a lot more than Trump. His right wing bully buddies, including Boris, Bibi, Christie, Rudy and the like will continue to spread their evil more unchecked until the Donald is defeated.


Why is it up to liberal America to make Israel a better place?



yahooyahoo said:

Why is it up to liberal America to make Israel a better place?

It's isn't, but America does have an interest in stability in the region, to the extent possible. It's not pouring billions into Israel and Egypt for nothing. We don't want some impulsive half cocked militarist to start another World war without good reason.



yahooyahoo said:

Why is it up to liberal America to make Israel a better place?

The current Israeli government has collaborated with both President Tweet and the Republican deplorables in Congress. Americans would be better off if Israel had a better government.

All I am saying is that the Israeli Right has been interfering in our country for years. How about we (the American rank and file on the Left) start interfering in theirs?


We are in a war here. We shouldn't limit ourselves to attacking the enemy on just one front. Russia, Israel, DC, we need to be finding their weaknesses and exploiting them.


There are a couple of Jewish groups working to do this: If Not Now - https://ifnotnowmovement.org and Jewish Voice for Peace: https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org


How to help make Israel more progressive:

Step 1: Get rid of Menendez, one of two Democrats (him and Manchin) who voted to confirm Trump's extremist, pro-apartheid ambassador to Israel.

https://goo.gl/bIQvsG

Step 2: Support progressive, pro-Israel groups like J Street, Americans for Peace Now and the New Israel Fund who are working to end Israel's colonial policies in the West Bank and for a more progressive domestic agenda in Israel:

http://www.nif.org/news-media/press-releases/nif-ceo-trump-signs-muslim-ban-israels-government-enacts-progressive-ban/

Edited to fix link.



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