Trump Tower Fatal Fire

This I did not know:

"New York City did not mandate sprinklers in every unit and common hallways of new residential buildings until March 1999 when then-Mayor Rudy Giulini signed council legislation. That was well after the opening of Trump Tower in February 1983.

The upper floors of Trump Tower, which are have 263 apartments, do not have sprinklers, Nigro told Spectrum News NY1, the 24-hour cable-TV news channel that serves New York's five boroughs."

usatoday.com:  Trump Tower Fire, New York City

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/04/07/trump-tower-fire-new-york-city/496553002/

Bwt it was caused by Russian bots, sent by Putin and accepted by his lapdog Trump in return for uranium mines because collusion.

Jackson_Fusion said:
Bwt it was caused by Russian bots, sent by Putin and accepted by his lapdog Trump in return for uranium mines because collusion.

Good bot

Trump's tweeted comment about the problem was as follows, not expressing any sorrow about the man who died nor the four firefighters who were injured, nor the antiquated fire control system in the building:  "Fire at Trump Tower is out. Very confined (well built building). Firemen (and women) did a great job. THANK YOU!"

People are blaming Trump for not installing a sprinkler system, but isn’t he just another condo unit owner at this point? Wouldn’t it be the responsibility of the board?

ridski said:

Jackson_Fusion said:
Bwt it was caused by Russian bots, sent by Putin and accepted by his lapdog Trump in return for uranium mines because collusion.

Good bot

Exhibit A-Z.

Jackson_Fusion said:
Bwt it was caused by Russian bots, sent by Putin and accepted by his lapdog Trump in return for uranium mines because collusion.

Dead person is funny haha lazy rehashed joke bot.

I had no idea that sprinklers weren't required until relatively recently in NYC residential buildings.  Who would want to live 50 stories up in a building that didn't have them?  

Jackson_Fusion said:

ridski said:

Jackson_Fusion said:
Bwt it was caused by Russian bots, sent by Putin and accepted by his lapdog Trump in return for uranium mines because collusion.

Good bot

Exhibit A-Z.

You appear upset. Here’s a cat gif to cheer you up, bot.

https://goo.gl/images/jUeswc

ridski said:

Jackson_Fusion said:

ridski said:

Jackson_Fusion said:
Bwt it was caused by Russian bots, sent by Putin and accepted by his lapdog Trump in return for uranium mines because collusion.

Good bot

Exhibit A-Z.

You appear upset. Here’s a cat gif to cheer you up, bot.

https://goo.gl/images/jUeswc

Oh dear Name calling! Do you think they’ll just call it in for you or will you have to go in on Monday? 

Corruption is good if it angers liberals.

dave23 said:
Corruption is good if it angers liberals.

Which means it’s bad because it usually doesn’t.   

Unless he was the person that died, this has nothing to do with Trump or US Politics.

Jackson_Fusion said:

ridski said:

Jackson_Fusion said:

ridski said:

Jackson_Fusion said:
Bwt it was caused by Russian bots, sent by Putin and accepted by his lapdog Trump in return for uranium mines because collusion.

Good bot

Exhibit A-Z.

You appear upset. Here’s a cat gif to cheer you up, bot.

https://goo.gl/images/jUeswc

Oh dear Name calling! Do you think they’ll just call it in for you or will you have to go in on Monday? 

Man found dead was murdered by Hillary because he had info on Uranium 1, fire was a cover-up (paid for by Soros).

Benghazi emails.

ridski said:

Jackson_Fusion said:

ridski said:

Jackson_Fusion said:

ridski said:

Jackson_Fusion said:
Bwt it was caused by Russian bots, sent by Putin and accepted by his lapdog Trump in return for uranium mines because collusion.

Good bot

Exhibit A-Z.

You appear upset. Here’s a cat gif to cheer you up, bot.

https://goo.gl/images/jUeswc

Oh dear Name calling! Do you think they’ll just call it in for you or will you have to go in on Monday? 

Man found dead was murdered by Hillary because he had info on Uranium 1, fire was a cover-up (paid for by Soros).
Benghazi emails.

Every cover up crumbles eventually

Jackson_Fusion said:

dave23 said:
Corruption is good if it angers liberals.

Which means it’s bad because it usually doesn’t.   

Which makes our distaste for Trump peculiar. Maybe it's because he's a Republican and maintains such strong support from Republicans and conservatives?

ridski said:

Jackson_Fusion said:

ridski said:

Jackson_Fusion said:

ridski said:

Jackson_Fusion said:
Bwt it was caused by Russian bots, sent by Putin and accepted by his lapdog Trump in return for uranium mines because collusion.

Good bot

Exhibit A-Z.

You appear upset. Here’s a cat gif to cheer you up, bot.

https://goo.gl/images/jUeswc

Oh dear Name calling! Do you think they’ll just call it in for you or will you have to go in on Monday? 

Man found dead was murdered by Hillary because he had info on Uranium 1, fire was a cover-up (paid for by Soros).
Benghazi emails.

Hmmm guess that means you have to go in. 

Jackson_Fusion said:

ridski said:

Jackson_Fusion said:

ridski said:

Jackson_Fusion said:

ridski said:

Jackson_Fusion said:
Bwt it was caused by Russian bots, sent by Putin and accepted by his lapdog Trump in return for uranium mines because collusion.

Good bot

Exhibit A-Z.

You appear upset. Here’s a cat gif to cheer you up, bot.

https://goo.gl/images/jUeswc

Oh dear Name calling! Do you think they’ll just call it in for you or will you have to go in on Monday? 

Man found dead was murdered by Hillary because he had info on Uranium 1, fire was a cover-up (paid for by Soros).
Benghazi emails.

Hmmm guess that means you have to go in. 

Yeah, but I get Friday off.

People, please.  Remain focused on the real issues - what Trump is doing to our country.  Campaign on that, not his character.  His character speaks for itself.  Clinton campaigned to much on his character and it didn't help her.  The people who cared about his character were never going to vote for him in the first place.

And, while is it clearly yet another example of putting money before people, I can't exactly blame a property owner for resisting efforts to require retrofitting older buildings for sprinklers.

How terrible to have your death turned into just more noise about Trump.

BBC: Trump Tower Victim Hated Living There

tjohn said:

And, while is it clearly yet another example of putting money before people, I can't exactly blame a property owner for resisting efforts to require retrofitting older buildings for sprinklers.

I understand why a property owner doesn't want to spend money to upgrade a building.  But I certainly can blame any of them for deaths that occur in their buildings afterward.  It was a business calculation that the owner made that in his opinion, people's lives weren't worth the expense of the installation.  It is not be a criminal offense and it may not even even be a civil offense given the laws of the city at the time. But imho, it's a moral offense.  

but not surprising with such a man as Trump.

ml1 said:

tjohn said:

And, while is it clearly yet another example of putting money before people, I can't exactly blame a property owner for resisting efforts to require retrofitting older buildings for sprinklers.

I understand why a property owner doesn't want to spend money to upgrade a building.  But I certainly can blame any of them for deaths that occur in their buildings afterward.  It was a business calculation that the owner made that in his opinion, people's lives weren't worth the expense of the installation.  It is not be a criminal offense and it may not even even be a civil offense given the laws of the city at the time. But imho, it's a moral offense.  

but not surprising with such a man as Trump.

Far more decent human beings than Trump would do the same thing.

tjohn said:

ml1 said:

tjohn said:

And, while is it clearly yet another example of putting money before people, I can't exactly blame a property owner for resisting efforts to require retrofitting older buildings for sprinklers.

I understand why a property owner doesn't want to spend money to upgrade a building.  But I certainly can blame any of them for deaths that occur in their buildings afterward.  It was a business calculation that the owner made that in his opinion, people's lives weren't worth the expense of the installation.  It is not be a criminal offense and it may not even even be a civil offense given the laws of the city at the time. But imho, it's a moral offense.  

but not surprising with such a man as Trump.

Far more decent human beings than Trump would do the same thing.

Far more decent human beings would express some remorse or accept a minor level of responsibility.

tjohn said:

ml1 said:

tjohn said:

And, while is it clearly yet another example of putting money before people, I can't exactly blame a property owner for resisting efforts to require retrofitting older buildings for sprinklers.

I understand why a property owner doesn't want to spend money to upgrade a building.  But I certainly can blame any of them for deaths that occur in their buildings afterward.  It was a business calculation that the owner made that in his opinion, people's lives weren't worth the expense of the installation.  It is not be a criminal offense and it may not even even be a civil offense given the laws of the city at the time. But imho, it's a moral offense.  

but not surprising with such a man as Trump.

Far more decent human beings than Trump would do the same thing.

if so, not that much more decent.  Any competent business person should be able to get a line of credit against the property to make those improvements.  And there are probably even ways to generate a tax benefit on it.  The only reasons not to do it are stinginess or being so leveraged that it can't be funded.

I hate to appear to be on our presidents side, but sprinklers are not meant to save lives.  They are meant to save property.  Alarms are meant to save lives.  I have no information about what happened here, but as a long time property manager I know it is common for people to disregard alarms.  

Red_Barchetta said:

I hate to appear to be on our presidents side, but sprinklers are not meant to save lives.  They are meant to save property.  Alarms are meant to save lives.  I have no information about what happened here, but as a long time property manager I know it is common for people to disregard alarms.  

my understanding is that sprinklers do save lives;

http://publicsafety.tufts.edu/firesafety/myths-and-facts-about-sprinkler-systems/

If we are going to blame landlords for not retrofitting sprinklers where does it stop?  I rent out two single family homes.  Neither has or is required to have sprinklers.  Of course, both could have them.   Am I evil?  My home here, where my family lives, has no sprinklers.  Am I a bad father?  

FilmCarp said:
If we are going to blame landlords for not retrofitting sprinklers where does it stop?  I rent out two single family homes.  Neither has or is required to have sprinklers.  Of course, both could have them.   Am I evil?  My home here, where my family lives, has no sprinklers.  Am I a bad father?      

I think the issue is that sprinklers are required for certain new construction, and so the issue is whether the older construction should have a permanent exemption.  There's no requirement for sprinklers in new construction of single-family homes.  Apartments which are dozens of stories above the ground are a different matter.

there is a very real and substantial difference between a 50 story tower and a single family home.  And in Trump's case there is also the fact that he actively fought against a requirement to put sprinklers in his building.  This from a guy who claims to be wealthy beyond anyone's imagination.

In this case, I believe the NYC city council was considering a bill that would require retrofitting buildings with sprinklers.  Trump, along with many other property owners I would guess, was opposed to this bill and fought hard to prevent its passage.  If that was the worst thing Trump ever did, we wouldn't be discussing this right now.