Impeachment Trial - Not Guilty Enough

joanne said:

just someone whose education I respect. Thanks for your reply!

 Thank you.

Testimony today established that the rioters wanted to kill Pence and Pelosi, among others.

The majority of the GQP Senators will pretend they never heard that testimony.

"Trust me, Mitt, you do NOT want to go that way." 

This is the moment Officer Eugene Goodman saved Sen. @MittRomney and led him away from the violent insurrectionists attacking the U.S. Capitol. pic.twitter.com/upcVnkJ4O3

— Travis Akers (@travisakers) February 10, 2021

I turned on Fox during the break for 1 minute.  They where whatabouting the restaurant verbal assaults on republican senators awhile back.

Then they were about to bring up Mark Cuban refusing to play the anthem.

jamie said:

I turned on Fox during the break for 1 minute.  They where whatabouting the restaurant verbal assaults on republican senators awhile back.

Then they were about to bring up Mark Cuban refusing to play the anthem.

 Meant to ask on the other thread, are you watching FOX on cable or network?  I check in on cable but wondered if that is where the average supporter across the country gets their news.

This trial is unbelievable. How on earth are republican senators sitting there and saying "not enough evidence"?

This Trump fellow sounds like a real a-hole.  

House impeachment manager Castro plays video of a rioter using a bullhorn to read then-Pres. Trump's tweet attacking VP Pence. "He further incites the mob against his own vice president." pic.twitter.com/2wd0JLm5iw

— MSNBC (@MSNBC) February 11, 2021

Morganna said:

jamie said:

I turned on Fox during the break for 1 minute.  They where whatabouting the restaurant verbal assaults on republican senators awhile back.

Then they were about to bring up Mark Cuban refusing to play the anthem.

 Meant to ask on the other thread, are you watching FOX on cable or network?  I check in on cable but wondered if that is where the average supporter across the country gets their news.

 FoxNews on cable is in no way comparable to Fox on broadcast networks.

This is all pointless.  The lawyers don't matter.  Anyone can say anything and then the republicans will not convict.  There is no point to watching, or looking for good legal points.  Trump knows that.  He doesn't really care who represents him. 

FilmCarp said:

This is all pointless.  The lawyers don't matter.  Anyone can say anything and then the republicans will not convict.  There is no point to watching, or looking for good legal points.  Trump knows that.  He doesn't really care who represents him. 

 he could have hired Carrot Top and still get an acquittal. 

If you just watch Fox, it didn't happen. 

Fox abruptly cuts off impeachment manager during testimony

drummerboy said:

 FoxNews on cable is in no way comparable to Fox on broadcast networks.

 So which one do you think the average Trump supporter watches? I'm trying to get a sense of what they are seeing. I'm imagining someone coming home and having only a half hour for the news so turning on 5, getting a little local news, weather and sports. So are they not getting the cable extremists?

Foxnews 11 show starts off with riots in Seattle and Portland.

Then I think there's stuff on Biden and China next.

Foxnews viewers may not even know there's an impeachment trial.

ahh - over at OAN - turns out - they WERE NOT Trump supporters who stormed the Capital.

More likely antifa.

The OAN expert also said BLM was there.  Most of the Trump supporters stayed outside the Capital.

I just don't think it's possible to look at the evidence being laid out here and not conclude that Trump is culpable. He regularly would make statements encouraging violence. People would commit violence, citing his words. He would praise the people who committed violence and then make further statements. He never distanced himself from violent action taken in his name, claimed he was misunderstood, or ever made any attempt to prevent more violence. Jan 6 was, as one of the impeachment managers put it, a culmination, not an aberration.

Of course Trump had fault and ginned up his base.  It's good this trial is on record for his actions.  In the end - we will remain in out media bubbles.  But I do believe if we reran the elections - you would see far fewer Trumpers out there.  So, it's making a dent - and there will be a little progress afterwards.

Self-delusion (or pretending to be clueless) in the Trump camp.  

Asked about the evidence presented in trial from insurrectionists saying they were taking Trump’s orders, Castor told me: "I don't believe that's what happened, no."

— Manu Raju (@mkraju) February 11, 2021

Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, who is one of my favorites, and who was a U.S. Attorney and Attorney General of Rhode Island, said last nght that using the "but for" test,  which is used to determine actual causation in law,  the insurrection would not have happened but for Trump's actions, both before Jan. 6 and on Jan. 6. It really is that straightforward. 

Yeah, Sen. Angus King made the same point yesterday. Pretty compelling.

drummerboy said:

Yeah, Sen. Angus King made the same point yesterday. Pretty compelling.

My mistake - it was Sen. Angus King.  

Some of the CNN talking heads picked up that talking point today too.

The more compelling the evidence the more furious I'm going to feel if they aquit him.  More than the Senate,  there is the fact that his supporters will not accept the evidence. It's like telling someone that their spouse is cheating. It's easier to hate the messenger than to realize they have been deceived and their whole life has been a lie.

Add to that, they would have to share some of the blame.

And after looking at these videos, how do we work with Trump supporters in the future?  Not just in Congress but in our own lives.

so true

Morganna said:

The more compelling the evidence the more furious I'm going to feel if they aquit him.  More than the Senate,  there is the fact that his supporters will not accept the evidence. It's like telling someone that their spouse is cheating. It's easier to hate the messenger than to realize they have been deceived and their whole life has been a lie.

Add to that, they would have to share some of the blame.

And after looking at these videos, how do we work with Trump supporters in the future?  Not just in Congress but in our own lives.

I would look at it the other way: we go on and do our business, and if these folks want to work with us: fine, if not: that's fine too.

Former US Attorney Preet Bharara last evening: 

Everyone brush up on whataboutism for tomorrow

— Preet Bharara (@PreetBharara) February 12, 2021

basil said:

I would look at it the other way: we go on and do our business, and if these folks want to work with us: fine, if not: that's fine too.

 On FB, rescues (cats, dogs) are heavily networked, daily asking for or offering help, and some very vocally partisan. We have hundreds of FB friends and they often forget that their comments slide into other people's newsfeeds. One actually posted on her page that a bus was being organized to go to the rally. There comes a point when it feels impossible to compartmentalize. 

Trump's lawyers, coming up.

I hear the 1st amendment will be their defense.  If they were smart they would just give a 2 minute response stating this.  Republicans aren't impeaching.

nohero said:

Former US Attorney Preet Bharara last evening: 

Everyone brush up on whataboutism for tomorrow

— Preet Bharara (@PreetBharara) February 12, 2021

 The "whatabouts" reflect pretty poorly on Trump. The only example I can think of where someone committed serious violence and even arguable directly cited a Democratic politician was the shooting of Republican Rep. Steve Scalise. The shooter was a Sanders supporter, but there's no tweets by Sanders urging anyone to attack Republicans, in contrast with Trump's words encouraging a march on the Capitol and saying it was necessary to fight, at a time when there was no upcoming elections or other civil venues were such "fighting" could be taken to rhetorically apply. And as soon as the tenuous connection between the shooter and Sanders came out, Sanders condemned it -- in contrast to Trump who, after calling Sen. Tuberville and learning that Pence had been evacuated in the midst of an ongoing armed invasion, tweeted an attack on Pence.

So yeah, whatabout that Trump guy, huh?

The mantra seems to be that he's the "Law and Order" president.