The mass shooting today.

Sadly, I suspect this thread will continue to be timely until, well, until I don't know what.  The chances of the US passing meaningful gun control laws was low to begin with and, with the new precedent free SCOTUS, those chances have now dropped to zero.


Todays numbers are 10 dead and 3 wounded in what police suspect was a white supremacist attack in Buffalo. Guy had a racial slur on the barrel of his assault rifle.

LOL


My hometown.  I've been in that store. Speechless!


Dennis_Seelbach said:

My hometown.  I've been in that store. Speechless!

Its horrifying every time but the sheer numbers breed a sort of numbness.  Then there is one that is special (children, hometown, political target) and it hits us all over again.

There was a bad one in my hometown a few weeks ago.  I used to work down the street from the place it happened.

LOL


I hear the locations and my heart jumps even more, as I pray no MOL families are personally impacted. (If you’re doing a petition or something, let me know if my practical help can be useful.)


joanne said:

 a petition 

No disrespect but I see this sort of thing with my neighbors here in Canada and friends in Europe.  Non Americans simply can't conceive of the magnitude of the American gun fetish.

The only way the uninterrupted slaughter of Americans will ever stop is when the last American shoots the second to last American.  This is something I realized when, in the aftermath of the Sandy Hook Massacre, nothing happened (other than a massive attack on the victims' parents by the Right Wing Media).


Here are some possible causes contributing to American weak gun laws:

1. The Frontier Myth, embedded in the American male psyche, where we grow up drenched in cowboy mythology defining manhood with the right to own a gun, and to use if autonomy is threatened. 

2.The enjoyment of hunting and riflery, overgeneralized to an urban and suburban population. 

3. The historical influence and past political and financial power of the gun lobby and the NRA, magnified by its hold on more rural and Republican states and politicians, which are overly represented in Congress. 

4. The macho appeal of the Right, inflamed by tv and social media, tending to equate brute power and toughness with wisdom. 

5. A perceived feeling of economic and social insecurity compensated for by racism and conspiracy theories of white power and male bonding; especially in hate groups and ideologies, with automatic weapons and talk of revolution and violence as the magical solution. 

GoSlugs said:

No disrespect but I see this sort of thing with my neighbors here in Canada and friends in Europe.  Non Americans simply can't conceive of the magnitude of the American gun fetish.

The only way the uninterrupted slaughter of Americans will ever stop is when the last American shoots the second to last American.  This is something I realized when, in the aftermath of the Sandy Hook Massacre, nothing happened (other than a massive attack on the victims' parents by the Right Wing Media).


One of my FB friends posted "shocked and saddened" by this. And my only reaction was "shocked?" Really? How can anyone be shocked by this any more? Just change the city name from Charleston to Orlando to Pittsburgh to El Paso to Buffalo and it's essentially the same story again and again. And nothing is done to tone down the hate or make guns less accessible. Nobody who isn't living under a rock should be shocked by these stories. If anything, it's surprising it doesn't happen MORE often with the number of guns in circulation and the prevalence of hate and paranoid conspiracy theories.


We have to blame the far right for this radicalization of the racists in America. People like Tucker Carlson filling their heads with the  “great replacement” conspiracy theory, while simultaneously railing against CRT.

I’m afraid this will not be the end of this madness. 


But don't listen to any of the azzholes trying to link the shooting to Ukraine.


nohero said:

But don't listen to any of the azzholes trying to link the shooting to Ukraine.

What an ****.


Typical Surovell assholery !


nohero said:

But don't listen to any of the azzholes trying to link the shooting to Ukraine.

It’s difficult to imagine that people can follow this moron. And share these thoughts. Just unbelievable. 


nohero said:

But don't listen to any of the azzholes trying to link the shooting to Ukraine.

Wow !!! Linking it to the Ukraine. The astounding stupidity.



No doubt that Zelensky was somehow behind this.

drummerboy said:


I’m not sure how you manage to get out of bed each morning, let alone leave your homes… even though you’re not necessarily safe there, either. 

question May sanity return, may safety return, with no more deaths or injuries, and may your legislators acknowledge that your communities aren’t truly safe while so many weapons are so freely accessible by so many. 


I grew up in Stockton, CA, where gun violence is a big problem.  My Dad used to have a jar by the front door where he would put the stray bullets he would find when he was walking the dog. Every few months someone would be killed by a stray bullet, often while sitting in their own home.  Things got really scary on New Years and the 4th of July when people would unload whole magazines into the sky in celebration.


shoot. I missed one from today.


joanne said:

I’m not sure how you manage to get out of bed each morning, let alone leave your homes… even though you’re not necessarily safe there, either. 

question
May sanity return, may safety return, with no more deaths or injuries, and may your legislators acknowledge that your communities aren’t truly safe while so many weapons are so freely accessible by so many. 

Our reality is that our country is safer today than it was any time between the 1960s and 1990s. So we don't need to be in constant fear of violence.  But that doesn't mean it's acceptable that so many people are killed by guns. 


ml1 said:

Our reality is that our country is safer today than it was any time between the 1960s and 1990s. So we don't need to be in constant fear of violence. But that doesn't mean it's acceptable that so many people are killed by guns.

The trend in gun homicides has been changing direction in the last several years, so some previous truths are no longer accurate. (Rates are still below past highs, but back above those in the 1960s, much of the 1980s and most of the 1990s.) A spike during the pandemic accounts for a large portion of the increase, but nevertheless ...


DaveSchmidt said:

ml1 said:

Our reality is that our country is safer today than it was any time between the 1960s and 1990s. So we don't need to be in constant fear of violence. But that doesn't mean it's acceptable that so many people are killed by guns.

The trend in gun homicides has been changing direction in the last several years, so some previous truths are no longer accurate. (Rates are still below past highs, but back above those in the 1960s, much of the 1980s and most of the 1990s.) A spike during the pandemic accounts for a large portion of the increase, but nevertheless ...

homicides aren't the only violent crimes, and guns aren't the only means of committing homicide. I think my comment speaks for itself.

https://www.bbc.com/news/57581270


ml1 said:

homicides aren't the only violent crimes, and guns aren't the only means of committing homicide. I think my comment speaks for itself.

It does. It’s just not necessarily the last word. I considered the context of the discussion and added what I trusted would be taken as relevant, updated information. (CDC confirmation of the 2020 rate was released only last week.)


For decades, violent crime in the US declined year after year.  That trend, generally speaking, has flattened and, in some cases, is rising. The numbers, historically speaking, aren't terrible but the trajectory is certainly concerning. The nation is not a homogenous whole when it comes to these things so, in some places these trends are imperceptible while, in others, they are alarming.

I mentioned above that I grew up in Stockton, CA.  In Stockton, things never got better.  All of our worst years with regards to homicide were in the 21st century.  Indeed, per capita speaking, Stockton was the murder capitol of the US twice in the last 20 years. In 2012, the average person in Stockton was more likely to be shot than the average combat soldier in Afghanistan.  A friend of mine who was a detective in the SPD and a reservist in the US Army famously said that Stockton was the one place that made him miss Baghdad.


Here's how the conversation about violent crime goes in the US:

A: "I'm concerned about violent crime. What can we do?"

B: "Well, the obvious answer would be to get rid of all those guns."

A: "Ok, yeah clearly, but I really love guns and get very upset if anyone suggests restricting it. I have tons of guns at home. Also, did I mention suggesting touching them makes me really upset? So anyway, assuming we'll do nothing about guns, what else can we do?"

B: "Uh, it's definitely easier and cheaper to make it harder for people who are scared or angry to have access to deadly weapons than to make them not scared and not angry, but sure -- I guess if we insist on keeping all those guns around we should see what we can do to make people less scared and angry."

A: "That sounds expensive. I hate taxes almost as much as I hate any suggestion of restricting guns. Also, I love FOX news, and making people scared and angry is basically their whole business model. So, what else can we do?

B: "Hopes and prayers? Those are free."

A: "Does that actually do anything?"

B: "You get what you pay for."


DaveSchmidt said:

ml1 said:

homicides aren't the only violent crimes, and guns aren't the only means of committing homicide. I think my comment speaks for itself.

It does. It’s just not necessarily the last word. I considered the context of the discussion and added what I trusted would be taken as relevant, updated information. (CDC confirmation of the 2020 rate was released only last week.)

ok.


GoSlugs said:

For decades, violent crime in the US declined year after year.  That trend, generally speaking, has flattened and, in some cases, is rising. The numbers, historically speaking, aren't terrible but the trajectory is certainly concerning. The nation is not a homogenous whole when it comes to these things so, in some places these trends are imperceptible while, in others, they are alarming.

I mentioned above that I grew up in Stockton, CA.  In Stockton, things never got better.  All of our worst years with regards to homicide were in the 21st century.  Indeed, per capita speaking, Stockton was the murder capitol of the US twice in the last 20 years. In 2012, the average person in Stockton was more likely to be shot than the average combat soldier in Afghanistan.  A friend of mine who was a detective in the SPD and a reservist in the US Army famously said that Stockton was the one place that made him miss Baghdad.

of course there are exceptions. But for anyone who grew up in the NY area in the 70s and 80s, the notion that we should be scared to even leave our homes is a tremendous overreaction. 

the number of guns in circulation increases year after year after year. So even in an environment that is overall safer than it was 30 years ago, shootings and gun homicides are increasing. I don't know that there's a solution to that. It's something of a vicious cycle, with the increases in shootings prompting more people to acquire guns, which leads to more shootings.


ml1 said:

 an environment that is overall safer than it was 30 years ago,


Its safer than it was 30 years ago but it is more dangerous than it was 5 years ago.  If we continue on the current trajectory, it will more dangerous still in 5 years.

What we, as a society, need to figure out is how to curve that trajectory without trampling on the rights of millions of innocent people and creating a police state in the process, with policies like Stop and Frisk and mass incarceration.  How to do that is the mystery.

(Edited for clarity)


ml1 said:

of course there are exceptions. But for anyone who grew up in the NY area in the 70s and 80s, the notion that we should be scared to even leave our homes is a tremendous overreaction.

I grew up in NYC during the 70's and 80's. I felt safer then than now. So do my acquaintances who also lived that era.

Then crime was less random. You knew to keep out of high crime areas like the drug trade or the sex trade and not deal in risky behavior.  Then you didn't hear about people being pushed onto subway tracks.

Now its more random. People minding their business getting pushed onto tracks, bopped on the head or just shot and knifed.

Crime stats are manipulated. NYPD's Compstat serves a purpose but also motivates local police commanders into downgrading crimes. Its bad for your command career when precinct stats go up.

Years ago there was a to do on a woman who was molested on the subway. She went to the precinct to complain whereupon the officer at the desk refused to take her report. It was reported in the newspapers and the officer was "disciplined." What wasn't reported was that desk officers are told to "minimize" crime.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2012/09/nypd-accused-of-downgrading-to-keep-crime-rate-low.html

Also, many more, than previously no longer report when they are victimized by crime either because they are illegal or because of "why bother."

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2012/09/nypd-accused-of-downgrading-to-keep-crime-rate-low.html


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