The Rose Garden and White House happenings: the voters were listening
the definition of insanity is thinking that trump deserves to be president.
obviously.
I was just at B&N and asked the clerk if they had Trump’s book on mass deportation of illegals. She said “Get the **** out of here and don’t ever come back”.
I said yeah that’s the one,
BarneyGumble said:
I was just at B&N and asked the clerk if they had Trump’s book on mass deportation of illegals. She said “Get the **** out of here and don’t ever come back”.
I said yeah that’s the one,
I'm also hoping Trump was lying about the mass deportations.
For once you and I are on the same page.
BarneyGumble said:
I was just at B&N and asked the clerk if they had Trump’s book on mass deportation of illegals. She said “Get the **** out of here and don’t ever come back”.
I said yeah that’s the one,
One of the things I regret from my younger days is saying things that I thought were funny but were actually mean-spirited. I hope that, some 40 years on, I am better than I was.
The NYT — “all the news that’s fit to print” — really needs a total editorial overhaul, but it is possible that it is too late. Its total embrace of the Democrats and its denial of the ILLEGAL immigration from around the world at the USA border should be proof that “the grand old lady” is no more.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/08/us/texas-border-latinos-election.html
Another “autopsy” on Democratic chutzpah from the Texas Monthly ..
“The oldest woman in Texas, Elizabeth Francis, died at age 115 in Houston on October 24. She was one of the final people in the state who was alive the last time Webb County, home to Laredo, voted for a Republican for president—that is, until the country voted for Donald Trump, nearly two weeks after Francis died.
“On Tuesday, Trump became the first GOP presidential candidate since William Howard Taft in 1912 to win Webb. It’s perhaps the most impressive jewel Trump has collected in his stunning crusade through what was once deep blue South Texas.
“Webb’s population is more than 95 percent Latino, and, like other Mexican American counties across the region, it shifted hard right in the 2020 election. Trump almost quadrupled his turnout that year relative to 2016, but the Democrats’ advantage was strong enough that the party still managed to beat him handily, sending Biden 61 percent of the vote.
“This year Trump won with 51 percent, flipping Webb and almost every other heavily Latino border county in Texas. Hidalgo County, home of McAllen, which Hillary Clinton once carried with 69 percent of the vote, went to Trump with 51 percent; Cameron County, home to Brownsville, gave Clinton 65 percent of the votes in 2016 and Trump 52.5 percent this year.
Why Democrats Are Losing Texas Latinos
By Jack Herrera
“Maybe it should be less shocking this time around, given how far right South Texas moved four years ago. But it’s still hard to look at all the red on the Texas map and not feel disoriented. Democrats once described the Rio Grande Valley as their blue wall in the state.
“Despite three decades of losses in statewide elections, party leaders kept saying they didn’t need to change their policy positions or messaging or candidate recruitment; all they needed to do was wait for the growing Latino population to deliver them a majority that would finally flip the state. That dream is dead. All five counties in the RGV went for Trump. In 2020, Trump’s gains here stunned the entire country, including local Democrats; this time, the party knew it was coming but failed to stop it.”
Probably the best post election analysis of the 2024 election I’ve come across — it’s too bad so many blue posters who are looking for answers will refuse to get this insight…
mtierney said:
Probably the best post election analysis of the 2024 election I’ve come across — it’s too bad so many blue posters who are looking for answers will refuse to get this insight…
against my better judgement, I clicked on the link and tried to read it. but it was such a tough slog and it was so long that I gave up before he got to his point. (assuming he had a point)
so, what's his point?
drummerboy said:
against my better judgement, I clicked on the link and tried to read it. but it was such a tough slog and it was so long that I gave up before he got to his point. (assuming he had a point)
so, what's his point?
only for you, db, here is a portion of the link I posted…
“Yet Americans, of all races and creeds, felt themselves to be living in a dystopian version of Alice in Wonderland, controlled by an unseen hand — and they didn’t like it. If the elite pollsters and expert predictors who had failed to foresee a Trump win had familiarised themselves with American history, instead of parroting the talking points of Obama and his operatives, they would have seen a country eager for a renewal of the freedoms that the vast majority of Americans embrace as their birthright.
“Seeing Americans as one people, with a common culture and character, shaped by a common history, is not something that America’s new elites know how to do, though. From kindergarten on, they are taught otherwise. Ivy League universities, the crucible in which the new class has been forged, base admissions and hiring decisions not on measures of objective performance, but on their ranking in the ever-shifting hierarchies of Party-sanctioned identity groups.
“The ability to sort Americans into bureaucratic categories like BIPOC, MENA, LGBTQ+ and other alphabet soup constructions is in fact the defining skill of Obama-era elites. It signifies mastery of in-group codes that help the Democratic Party manage its own top-down constituencies, which are regimented by political operatives and NGO organisers, paid for by billionaire foundations, and embodied in bureaucratic regulations, executive orders, census categories and other legally-binding schemes meant to overcome historical American notions of equality. That’s how the party machine operates.
“Now, in one night, the Obama machine, which he built on the model of the Chicago Democratic Party machine, and which he used to run the country, including the prestige institutions and the media, through a combination of bureaucratic capture and social pressure, accentuated by control of large tech platforms, was finally melting down. No wonder the press was in shock. None of the lines that they had been given could be reconciled with the numbers onscreen.
“A reckoning will surely come. At the very least, the time has now arrived for Barack Obama to leave Washington and exit American politics, now that his Shadow Presidency — which proved to be even more counter-productive and chaotic than Trump’s first term in office — has gone down in flames.
“Meanwhile, the gap between what America’s elites believe, and what the rest of the country believes, has never been wider, probably not since the late 19th century. Back then, Gilded Age America was ruled by a tight group of tycoons and their retainers who positioned themselves as the heirs to the Republican Party of Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses S. Grant, the President and the General who together led the Civil War.
“The further the Republican Party traveled from the Civil War, the more the busts of Lincoln and Grant resembled window-dressing for the extraordinary fortunes of a new oligarchy that traveled in private trains, summered in Newport, and bought every available Old Master painting in Europe to decorate their lavish houses. Economically and morally, the so-called Robber Barons — Morgans, Rockefellers, Goulds, Fricks, Carnegies, Whitneys, Harrimans — had an easy time of it, enjoying the benefits of cheap immigrant labour while flattering themselves as the rightful heirs of the Party that ended slavery.
“With the exception of Carnegie, a self-made Scotsman and innovative industrialist who gave away his fortune to establish America’s system of public libraries, history doesn’t remember them kindly.”
mtierney said:
only for you, db, here is a portion of the link I posted…
“Yet Americans, of all races and creeds, felt themselves to be living in a dystopian version of Alice in Wonderland, controlled by an unseen hand — and they didn’t like it. If the elite pollsters and expert predictors who had failed to foresee a Trump win had familiarised themselves with American history, instead of parroting the talking points of Obama and his operatives, they would have seen a country eager for a renewal of the freedoms that the vast majority of Americans embrace as their birthright.
“Seeing Americans as one people, with a common culture and character, shaped by a common history, is not something that America’s new elites know how to do, though. From kindergarten on, they are taught otherwise. Ivy League universities, the crucible in which the new class has been forged, base admissions and hiring decisions not on measures of objective performance, but on their ranking in the ever-shifting hierarchies of Party-sanctioned identity groups.
“The ability to sort Americans into bureaucratic categories like BIPOC, MENA, LGBTQ+ and other alphabet soup constructions is in fact the defining skill of Obama-era elites. It signifies mastery of in-group codes that help the Democratic Party manage its own top-down constituencies, which are regimented by political operatives and NGO organisers, paid for by billionaire foundations, and embodied in bureaucratic regulations, executive orders, census categories and other legally-binding schemes meant to overcome historical American notions of equality. That’s how the party machine operates.
“Now, in one night, the Obama machine, which he built on the model of the Chicago Democratic Party machine, and which he used to run the country, including the prestige institutions and the media, through a combination of bureaucratic capture and social pressure, accentuated by control of large tech platforms, was finally melting down. No wonder the press was in shock. None of the lines that they had been given could be reconciled with the numbers onscreen.
“A reckoning will surely come. At the very least, the time has now arrived for Barack Obama to leave Washington and exit American politics, now that his Shadow Presidency — which proved to be even more counter-productive and chaotic than Trump’s first term in office — has gone down in flames.
“Meanwhile, the gap between what America’s elites believe, and what the rest of the country believes, has never been wider, probably not since the late 19th century. Back then, Gilded Age America was ruled by a tight group of tycoons and their retainers who positioned themselves as the heirs to the Republican Party of Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses S. Grant, the President and the General who together led the Civil War.
“The further the Republican Party traveled from the Civil War, the more the busts of Lincoln and Grant resembled window-dressing for the extraordinary fortunes of a new oligarchy that traveled in private trains, summered in Newport, and bought every available Old Master painting in Europe to decorate their lavish houses. Economically and morally, the so-called Robber Barons — Morgans, Rockefellers, Goulds, Fricks, Carnegies, Whitneys, Harrimans — had an easy time of it, enjoying the benefits of cheap immigrant labour while flattering themselves as the rightful heirs of the Party that ended slavery.
“With the exception of Carnegie, a self-made Scotsman and innovative industrialist who gave away his fortune to establish America’s system of public libraries, history doesn’t remember them kindly.”
lord what a useless contribution to our discourse.
mtierney said:
@drummerboy….a picture is worth a thousand words…
in this case, hardly. You have merely provided a map of America's delusion.
There are, of course, multiple reasons why Harris lost.
One important factor is the fragmenting of the media. Suppose some person without preconceptions spent the last 4 years in isolation and had only Fox News to watch. After those 4 years, how would they describe the candidates?
From mtierney's quote at 9:33 today: "“Seeing Americans as one people, with a common culture and character, shaped by a common history, is not something that America’s new elites know how to do, though."
Americans need to be one people, despite the fact that as always they come from and to a greater or lesser extent retain different cultures and in some cases very different histories, that have to be understood and hopefully reconciled, or at least accommodated. This takes work, knowledge, and acceptance of each other that many are not prepared to offer. Hopefully, we will come through this period, but not by bashing each other, ignoring each other, or trying to fit everybody into one mold.
eta: Farther along, the author shows a lot of nerve complaining about D's being funded by "billionaire foundations," given the many and prominent billionaire funders of the R's. His(?) description of the R bigwigs of the late 19th/early 20th century sounds pretty familiar, though, when you think about who has real power (and is out for more) now.
mtierney said:
only for you, db, here is a portion of the link I posted…
“Yet Americans, of all races and creeds, felt themselves to be living in a dystopian version of Alice in Wonderland
While there's so much you could unpack from just that first paragraph alone, I'll start with:
There's a Utopian version of "Alice in Wonderland"?
Been watching the election news autopsy off and on today and the Democrats seem not to believe the results from across America. So convinced that Trump could not possibly win — even with all the lawfare designed to keep him in courtrooms and off the campaign trail — the Democratic leadership believed that Biden would go gently and that Harris would “waltz” into the White House. Incidentally the powers that be that believed Walz was a good choice, ie safe, nonthreatening veep filler material, were dead wrong. The self-described “knucklehead” and happy bird-shooter was a detriment to Harris from Day One.
Why did Trump triumphantly win? Here are two reasons,,,
For our Ohioan @drummerboy….
Why the GOP Is Winning Over Minorities
The Democrats have nothing to offer but grievance, victimhood and welfare.
By Josh Williams
Nov. 10, 2024 at 3:22 pm ET
On Election Day, Donald Trump revealed the new coalition underpinning the modern Republican Party. As a proud black elected Republican, I believe today’s GOP represents people like me better than the Democrats ever have.
My early life could be considered an “authentic” experience as a black man in America. I was once a homeless high-school dropout. As a young adult, I endured a devastating workplace accident that left me disabled. At 30, I pulled myself up and enrolled in college, determined to rewrite my story. Within the next seven years I became a practicing attorney and, in 2022, the first black Republican elected to the Ohio House of Representatives in 50 years.
I understand the needs and concerns of my community, because for many years I lived them. All the Democratic Party ever offered me was grievance, victimhood and welfare. What any American—black or otherwise—wants is the opportunity to work hard and achieve his dreams. The Republican agenda champions economic prosperity, energy independence, border security and community safety. Opportunity lives within the modern GOP, and last Tuesday people of color agreed in record numbers.
To understand why the Democratic Party has failed, just look at how its agenda has affected my hometown of Toledo. Toledoans are very proud of our Jeep plant, the backbone of our local economy. Unfortunately, it has been crippled by big government. New regulations and mandates have led to assembly-line shutdowns and thousands of layoffs. Decades of unfair trade practices and an oppressive tax code leave Toledo and cities like it in decline.
For our gritty town, the Jeep plant has been a leg up for generations. This work has been passed down from fathers and mothers to sons and daughters for longer than I’ve been alive. Without it, many people who grew up like me are simply left with one less option to succeed.
When I walk into the barber shop, people are talking about Jeep jobs, inflation and crime, not identity politics. They ask questions about border security and the cost of living, not culture wars. The average American who looks like me simply isn’t concerned with the fake issues being peddled by the Democratic Party and the elites who set its agenda.
My message to Washington after the election is simple: Stop pandering to us. Treat us like adults. Treat us like Americans.
Whether you love Mr. Trump or loathe him, you can’t accuse him of inauthenticity. Minority communities not only can handle that approach—we appreciate it, and we will vote for it.
Mr. Trump’s Republican Party is where I belong. It’s where my friends, neighbors and pastors belong. The voters have spoken loud and clear that his GOP is the party of the people. All of us.
Mr. Williams represents the 44th Ohio House District, which includes much of the Toledo area
mtierney said:
For our Ohioan @drummerboy….
Why the GOP Is Winning Over Minorities
The Democrats have nothing to offer but grievance, victimhood and welfare.
By Josh Williams
Nov. 10, 2024 at 3:22 pm ET
On Election Day, Donald Trump revealed the new coalition underpinning the modern Republican Party. As a proud black elected Republican, I believe today’s GOP represents people like me better than the Democrats ever have.
My early life could be considered an “authentic” experience as a black man in America. I was once a homeless high-school dropout. As a young adult, I endured a devastating workplace accident that left me disabled. At 30, I pulled myself up and enrolled in college, determined to rewrite my story. Within the next seven years I became a practicing attorney and, in 2022, the first black Republican elected to the Ohio House of Representatives in 50 years.
I understand the needs and concerns of my community, because for many years I lived them. All the Democratic Party ever offered me was grievance, victimhood and welfare. What any American—black or otherwise—wants is the opportunity to work hard and achieve his dreams. The Republican agenda champions economic prosperity, energy independence, border security and community safety. Opportunity lives within the modern GOP, and last Tuesday people of color agreed in record numbers.
To understand why the Democratic Party has failed, just look at how its agenda has affected my hometown of Toledo. Toledoans are very proud of our Jeep plant, the backbone of our local economy. Unfortunately, it has been crippled by big government. New regulations and mandates have led to assembly-line shutdowns and thousands of layoffs. Decades of unfair trade practices and an oppressive tax code leave Toledo and cities like it in decline.
For our gritty town, the Jeep plant has been a leg up for generations. This work has been passed down from fathers and mothers to sons and daughters for longer than I’ve been alive. Without it, many people who grew up like me are simply left with one less option to succeed.
When I walk into the barber shop, people are talking about Jeep jobs, inflation and crime, not identity politics. They ask questions about border security and the cost of living, not culture wars. The average American who looks like me simply isn’t concerned with the fake issues being peddled by the Democratic Party and the elites who set its agenda.
My message to Washington after the election is simple: Stop pandering to us. Treat us like adults. Treat us like Americans.
Whether you love Mr. Trump or loathe him, you can’t accuse him of inauthenticity. Minority communities not only can handle that approach—we appreciate it, and we will vote for it.
Mr. Trump’s Republican Party is where I belong. It’s where my friends, neighbors and pastors belong. The voters have spoken loud and clear that his GOP is the party of the people. All of us.
Mr. Williams represents the 44th Ohio House District, which includes much of the Toledo area
you seriously expect me to take seriously the thoughts of an R member of the Ohio House?
Our state government is very probably the most corrupt in the nation.
mtierney said:
For our Ohioan @drummerboy….
Why the GOP Is Winning Over Minorities
The Democrats have nothing to offer but grievance, victimhood and welfare.
By Josh Williams
Nov. 10, 2024 at 3:22 pm ET
On Election Day, Donald Trump revealed the new coalition underpinning the modern Republican Party. As a proud black elected Republican, I believe today’s GOP represents people like me better than the Democrats ever have.
My early life could be considered an “authentic” experience as a black man in America. I was once a homeless high-school dropout. As a young adult, I endured a devastating workplace accident that left me disabled. At 30, I pulled myself up and enrolled in college, determined to rewrite my story. Within the next seven years I became a practicing attorney and, in 2022, the first black Republican elected to the Ohio House of Representatives in 50 years.
I understand the needs and concerns of my community, because for many years I lived them. All the Democratic Party ever offered me was grievance, victimhood and welfare. What any American—black or otherwise—wants is the opportunity to work hard and achieve his dreams. The Republican agenda champions economic prosperity, energy independence, border security and community safety. Opportunity lives within the modern GOP, and last Tuesday people of color agreed in record numbers.
To understand why the Democratic Party has failed, just look at how its agenda has affected my hometown of Toledo. Toledoans are very proud of our Jeep plant, the backbone of our local economy. Unfortunately, it has been crippled by big government. New regulations and mandates have led to assembly-line shutdowns and thousands of layoffs. Decades of unfair trade practices and an oppressive tax code leave Toledo and cities like it in decline.
For our gritty town, the Jeep plant has been a leg up for generations. This work has been passed down from fathers and mothers to sons and daughters for longer than I’ve been alive. Without it, many people who grew up like me are simply left with one less option to succeed.
When I walk into the barber shop, people are talking about Jeep jobs, inflation and crime, not identity politics. They ask questions about border security and the cost of living, not culture wars. The average American who looks like me simply isn’t concerned with the fake issues being peddled by the Democratic Party and the elites who set its agenda.
My message to Washington after the election is simple: Stop pandering to us. Treat us like adults. Treat us like Americans.
Whether you love Mr. Trump or loathe him, you can’t accuse him of inauthenticity. Minority communities not only can handle that approach—we appreciate it, and we will vote for it.
Mr. Trump’s Republican Party is where I belong. It’s where my friends, neighbors and pastors belong. The voters have spoken loud and clear that his GOP is the party of the people. All of us.
Mr. Williams represents the 44th Ohio House District, which includes much of the Toledo area
We'll see. I would love it if the GOP comes through big for working people of all races and ethnicities and passes lots of legislation to improve their well-being and quality of life.
I also would love to play CF for the New York Mets in 2025.
These two occurrences are roughly equal in probability.
ml1 said:
I also would love to play CF for the New York Mets in 2025.
These two occurrences are roughly equal in probability.
there’s always an opening for pinch hitters…
This Maureen Dowd column (found it reading the Irish Times online) appeared in yesterday Times but I missed it. She does answers a lot of the questions raised by the Dems on MOL…
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/09/opinion/democrats-identity-politics.html?searchResultPosition=1
Happy Veterans Day! I spent some time today looking a family albums and scrapbooks. My father served in WW1; my brother and husband served in WW2.
mtierney said:
This Maureen Dowd column (found it reading the Irish Times online) appeared in yesterday Times but I missed it. She does answers a lot of the questions raised by the Dems on MOL…
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/09/opinion/democrats-identity-politics.html?searchResultPosition=1
Happy Veterans Day! I spent some time today looking a family albums and scrapbooks. My father served in WW1; my brother and husband served in WW2.
Spending on veterans is not affected by spending on immigrants. The amount spent on veterans is a political decision.
tjohn said:
Spending on veterans is not affected by spending on immigrants. The amount spent on veterans is a political decision.
You bring that point up because…..?
mtierney said:
tjohn said:
Spending on veterans is not affected by spending on immigrants. The amount spent on veterans is a political decision.
You bring that point up because…..?
Just so you know that lack of spending on veterans is a political choice, not one of scarcity of resources.
Let's see what the MAGA congress does.
From the WSJ today…
Trump’s Mass Deportation Promise
He has a mandate on the border and to deport criminals. But more than that could get ugly fast.
Nov. 11, 2024 at 5:55 pm ET
Donald Trump won a second term in the White House by pledging to secure the U.S.-Mexico border, and that includes sending a clear deterrent message to migrants before he’s sworn in again on Jan. 20. Last week a caravan of about 3,000 people set out toward the U.S. from near the Guatemala border, according to Reuters, but many of them dispersed after Mr. Trump’s victory.
Mr. Trump announced late Sunday that Tom Homan, his former acting head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, has agreed to be his new border czar. Mr. Homan will be “in charge of our Nation’s Borders,” plus “all Deportation of Illegal Aliens back to their Country of Origin,” Mr. Trump wrote on Truth Social. Media leaks Monday said Stephen Miller, who advised Mr. Trump on immigration policy in the first term, is likely to be White House deputy chief of staff for policy.
In short order, Mr. Trump will move to reinstate the border policies of his first term, such as Remain in Mexico, which seemed to work. Under that deal, migrants claiming asylum in the U.S. were sent back to Mexico while their cases were pending, which might take months or more. The idea was to break the incentives to game the system. Given the backlog of asylum cases, letting migrants into the U.S. while they wait is an enticement to come.
The political rub may be Mr. Trump’s campaign promise to conduct “the largest deportation operation in the history of our country.” How it goes depends on what Mr. Trump means. Speaking Monday on Fox News, Mr. Homan said the priority will be “public-safety threats and national-security threats,” as well as migrants who “had due process” and “their federal judge said ‘you must go home,’ and they didn’t.”
Good to hear, and add what Mr. Homan told “60 Minutes” last month. “It’s not going to be a mass sweep of neighborhoods,” he said. “It’s not going to be building concentration camps. I’ve read it all. It’s ridiculous.”
Instead he said Mr. Trump’s plan would involve “targeted arrests,” and eventually “worksite enforcement operations.” If officers making an arrest also find an undocumented grandma in the house, will they detain her? “It depends,” Mr. Homan said. “Let the judge decide.”
Some of Mr. Trump’s advisers, including Mr. Miller, have talked about mass deportation in sweeping terms. But enforcement priorities are up to the President, and Mr. Trump has suggested he isn’t interested in illegal grandmothers.
When he visited the Journal recently, we asked about aliens who have been here for years, who might have U.S. citizen spouses and children. His response was that he wanted to help them.
“We have a lot of good people in this country, and we have to do something about it,” Mr. Trump said. “This has been going on for a long time. It’s a complicated subject.” He declined to specify whom he’d deport: “I don’t want to go too much into clarification, because the nicer I become, the more people that come over illegally.” Yet after stringent talk about deterrence, he ended with nuance: “There are some human questions that get in the way of being perfect, and we have to have the heart, too.”
The public backs him on securing the border and reducing the burden that migrants have put on cities across the country. But as Mr. Trump appears to realize, support will ebb if the public sees crying children as their parents are deported, or reads stories of long-settled families broken up and “dreamers” brought here illegally as children deported to countries that they no longer remember.
Even as Mr. Biden’s failures turned the public against immigration, Gallup this summer said 81% of Americans want a path to citizenship for those “brought to the U.S. illegally as children.” That included 64% of Republicans.
Mr. Trump can do much on immigration by executive action, but a durable solution needs legislation. Maybe Democrats, after the electoral haymaker they got last week, will be willing to compromise more than they have in the past. Mr. Trump missed a chance for a bipartisan deal in 2018 to permanently change the border incentives on asylum and more. He’ll have a narrow window again next year, if he’s willing and has the heart.
mtierney said:
Mr. Trump can do much on immigration by executive action, but a durable solution needs legislation. Maybe Democrats, after the electoral haymaker they got last week, will be willing to compromise more than they have in the past. Mr. Trump missed a chance for a bipartisan deal in 2018 to permanently change the border incentives on asylum and more. He’ll have a narrow window again next year, if he’s willing and has the heart.
Of course, MAGA could have accepted the bill recently up for passage that was a compromise packages that gave conservatives much of what they wanted.
Mtierney,
If you want to make logical arguments to the effect that the Democrats are trying to sell and product that Americans don't want, knock yourself out.
But know this: When it comes to lawfare, lies and gaslighting, nobody comes close to Trump.
As one person disillusioned with both Harris and Trump observed, they both suck but Harris sucks within normal parameters.
My hope now is that the democratic institutions built up in the country since the Civil War don't suffer irreparable damage under Trump.
And always remember, "there is no hate like Christian love". I borrowed that from a NYT piece where a gay man talked about growing up in a very conservative Christian community. When he first told his father, his father said something like "I love you, let us fix you". At least the story had a happy ending in which his mother and father came to love, understand and accept him. They lost all of their conservative Christian friends in the process (Christian love an all) but gained a new community of people who more closely followed the teachings of Jesus.