Ukraine has launched a surprise ground assault into Russia with troops and armored vehicles, Russian officials and independent military analysts said on Wednesday, in what could be one of the largest Ukrainian incursions onto Russian soil in more than two years of war.
The assault, which began on Tuesday in the Kursk region of western Russia, has resulted in heavy fighting, according to images from the battlefield verified by independent militaryanalysts and Russian statements.
Videos verified by The New York Times showed armored vehicles being struck several miles inside Russia, and Moscow said it had rushed troops and fighter jets to respond. Gen. Valery V. Gerasimov, the commander of Russian forces fighting in Ukraine, said the advance of Ukrainian troops had been halted on Wednesday evening, while pro-Kremlin military bloggers said Ukrainian forces had captured several settlements near the border.
Putin says it’s a provocation. Are they sure it’s Ukrainian troops? Now nan is going to really lose it, since the troops have taken some small towns up to six miles into Russian territory. Us warmongers are in for a tongue lashing soon.
Putin says it’s a provocation. Are they sure it’s Ukrainian troops? Now nan is going to really lose it, since the troops have taken some small towns up to six miles into Russian territory. Us warmongers are in for a tongue lashing soon.
Don't worry -- when Russia sent 30,000 troops to Kyiv, according to Nan it was just a distraction that showed Russia's sincere efforts to seek peace. This is only 1,000 troops, in a border region, so I'm sure Nan believes this is an even bigger goodwill gesture than what Russia did.
Putin says it’s a provocation. Are they sure it’s Ukrainian troops? Now nan is going to really lose it, since the troops have taken some small towns up to six miles into Russian territory. Us warmongers are in for a tongue lashing soon.
Don't worry -- when Russia sent 30,000 troops to Kyiv, according to Nan it was just a distraction that showed Russia's sincere efforts to seek peace. This is only 1,000 troops, in a border region, so I'm sure Nan believes this is an even bigger goodwill gesture than what Russia did.
This is no doubt a media influenced event because they need those troops in critical areas and then they use them for the "photo op" attack on Russia. Obviously it worked because it got it's own thread here. Zelensky has to maintain the idea that Ukraine can still launch successful offensives. But, it's not going to change the outcome of the war. I also don't think it's popular with some of the military commanders in Ukraine.
Putin says it’s a provocation. Are they sure it’s Ukrainian troops? Now nan is going to really lose it, since the troops have taken some small towns up to six miles into Russian territory. Us warmongers are in for a tongue lashing soon.
Don't worry -- when Russia sent 30,000 troops to Kyiv, according to Nan it was just a distraction that showed Russia's sincere efforts to seek peace. This is only 1,000 troops, in a border region, so I'm sure Nan believes this is an even bigger goodwill gesture than what Russia did.
This is no doubt a media influenced event because they need those troops in critical areas and then they use them for the "photo op" attack on Russia. Obviously it worked because it got it's own thread here. Zelensky has to maintain the idea that Ukraine can still launch successful offensives. But, it's not going to change the outcome of the war. I also don't think it's popular with some of the military commanders in Ukraine.
As Clemenceau said, "War is too serious a matter to entrust to military men."
So to review -- in 2014, Ukraine was not part of NATO and no one was invading Russia. Now, thanks to Putin's brilliant leadership, NATO has expanded, Ukraine is being armed by NATO, and parts of Russia are occupied by a foreign military force. #winning
So to review -- in 2014, Ukraine was not part of NATO and no one was invading Russia. Now, thanks to Putin's brilliant leadership, NATO has expanded, Ukraine is being armed by NATO, and parts of Russia are occupied by a foreign military force. #winning
No, in 2014, the US backed a coup to overthrow the democratically elected president of Ukraine and replaced him with an anti-Russian government. The NATOization of Ukraine began with the goal of weakening Russia and getting Putin removed. NATO also expanded to other countries who will most likely regret that, as I’m sure most people still surviving in Ukraine do.
The West wins the propaganda war but Russia won the conflict in Ukraine and will be a winner in the new world multipolar world based on the true Westphalian order. The fate of the West is unknown but not looking good with trillions in debt and a neocon foreign policy that shows no sign of reason. And people who vote on superficial reasons without knowing the dangerous policies held by their candidates.
There was a popular uprising in Ukraine. The U.S. sided with the pro-EU side but the uprising came first.
Ukraine hasn't been NATOized. NATO training and low-level arming of the AFU began AFTER Russian invasions started in 2014. It's that timeline thing again.
I'm not sure what is magical about a Westphalian world order if you account for the European wars occurring after 1648. Maybe it was just one of those podcast talking points that captured your fancy.
I still don't understand how Russia is better off than on February 21st, 2022. I understand how Ukraine has been devastated, but that is hardly a win for Russia.
Let's review.
Putin launched an unjustified, brutal invasion of Ukraine because he saw Ukraine slipping into the Western orbit. He couldn't allow that because it would mean the end of his dream to bring Ukraine back into the Russian Empire.
The Lord works in mysterious ways, but there’s no **** way that Putin is the means by which to bring about Peace on Earth (“Westphalian” or otherwise).
Read about this yesterday and had a little bit of optimism about the outcome. With the election coming up perhaps Zelensky wanted to stir up emotions here in the U.S. with funding being discussed in Congress. Ukraine is often on my mind even when it is not getting much news coverage.
It seems they wanted the nuclear power plant and publicity but fell short. Still a big escalation.
I'm sorry, I thought you had told us that sending troops across an international border was a sign of seeking peace?
Did I say that every time troops are sent across international borders it meant they were seeking peace? Every time? Please show me where I said that because there is no way I would say that.
There can be multiple reasons why a country would invade another and this Ukraine invading Russia gambit is particularly enigmatic. There are multiple possible reasons why this happened.
Here Brian Berletic discusses many of them.
- Ukraine’s “offensive” into Kursk, Russia was another example of Kiev’s costly public relations campaigns, this time designed to prove Ukraine can “bring the war to Russian soil;”
- In reality, Ukraine expended manpower and equipment it does not have to spare, as well as stretching its already struggling logistical network;
- Additional attempts by Ukraine to appear strong as its strategically collapses include alleged special military operations in Africa aimed at undermining Russian security cooperation in the region;
- Ukraine’s suggested involvement in military operations in Mali resulting in the death of government troops has resulted in the severing of relations between Mali and Niger with Ukraine;
- “Ukrainian” operations worldwide provide cover for what are likely Western activities conducted by proxy against Russia just as it does against Chinese interests around the globe and is doing in Ukraine against Russia, which itself is a proxy war;
Ah, well then maybe it's a case of "red lines." After all, most countries have "invading" as a red line, and Russia clearly violated that. So perhaps Ukraine was responding to Russia crossing its red lines and posing an existential threat? You support invading countries in response to existential threats, IIRC?
Ah, well then maybe it's a case of "red lines." After all, most countries have "invading" as a red line, and Russia clearly violated that. So perhaps Ukraine was responding to Russia crossing its red lines and posing an existential threat? You support invading countries in response to existential threats, IIRC?
Ukraine does not need permission from me to invade other countries. For this attack, it's more a question of stupidity or need for attention than fighting an existential threat. Had they immediately crossed the border and grabbed the nuclear power plant, they would have had something to bargain with. But, they did not do that and now they will all be eliminated by the Russians. Also, they were needed to reinforce troops in the Donbas where Ukraine is collapsing. So, they got the attention they wanted -- they got a separate MOL thread, and Morgana (and others like her) said it gave her "a little bit of optimism" and maybe Zelensky will get a few billion more bucks for Project Ukraine. But, it's not how they should be responding to an existential threat. For that they should be doing negotiations. But their Western masters are not ready to pull the plug just yet so they will continue on with this worthless cause.
Ukraine does not need permission from me to invade other countries. For this attack, it's more a question of stupidity or need for attention than fighting an existential threat. Had they immediately crossed the border and grabbed the nuclear power plant, they would have had something to bargain with. But, they did not do that and now they will all be eliminated by the Russians. Also, they were needed to reinforce troops in the Donbas where Ukraine is collapsing. So, they got the attention they wanted -- they got a separate MOL thread, and Morgana (and others like her) said it gave her "a little bit of optimism" and maybe Zelensky will get a few billion more bucks for Project Ukraine. But, it's not how they should be responding to an existential threat. For that they should be doing negotiations. But their Western masters are not ready to pull the plug just yet so they will continue on with this worthless cause.
Ukraine does not need permission from me to invade other countries. For this attack, it's more a question of stupidity or need for attention than fighting an existential threat. Had they immediately crossed the border and grabbed the nuclear power plant, they would have had something to bargain with. But, they did not do that and now they will all be eliminated by the Russians. Also, they were needed to reinforce troops in the Donbas where Ukraine is collapsing. So, they got the attention they wanted -- they got a separate MOL thread, and Morgana (and others like her) said it gave her "a little bit of optimism" and maybe Zelensky will get a few billion more bucks for Project Ukraine. But, it's not how they should be responding to an existential threat. For that they should be doing negotiations. But their Western masters are not ready to pull the plug just yet so they will continue on with this worthless cause.
This is why I come to MOL.
To read nan's war strategies.
Sorry, I was under the impression that this was a discussion board.
Perhaps you could take a break from slinging insults at me and talk about why you think Ukraine invaded Russia. Is that possible?
Sorry, I was under the impression that this was a discussion board.
Perhaps you could take a break from slinging insults at me and talk about why you think Ukraine invaded Russia. Is that possible?
unlike you, I do not have the cajones to pretend to know what their intentions are.
I could of course, spend time reading the analyses of a variety of other people, and then decide which one I like, and then post it here as if I thought of it myself.
Sorry, I was under the impression that this was a discussion board.
Perhaps you could take a break from slinging insults at me and talk about why you think Ukraine invaded Russia. Is that possible?
unlike you, I do not have the cajones to pretend to know what their intentions are.
I could of course, spend time reading the analyses of a variety of other people, and then decide which one I like, and then post it here as if I thought of it myself.
I hope you are not accusing me of doing that because I don't.
When the invasion first happened and I posted about it, I had not listened to anyone else. I've been following this conflict for so long I can actually think about it as an expert would. And before you start stabbing at me for using the word "expert," I would consider most of the people who contribute to this thread diligently experts. Experts are people who know a lot about a topic because they have researched it more than the average person. Does not mean they are right or wrong, only that they know a lot of facts and are aware of the major arguments.
I do spend time reading/watching others on this topic and I share all of those resources here. You know where I get my ideas from. There is no fakery here. I do genuinely have a good basis to know what the intentions of the invasion are. I've read at least three books on Ukraine and countless articles and hundreds of videos. I don't need cajones to predict why Ukraine invaded; I have a basic body of knowledge from which to draw my conclusions.
That you continue to be a major participant in this thread and you can't say squat about the topic is something you might want to think about. What stops you from reading a variety of other people? You don't have to post as if you thought of it yourself--you can cite people, as I do. Don't you think that would be an improvement on just being a troll?
I hope you are not accusing me of doing that because I don't.
When the invasion first happened and I posted about it, I had not listened to anyone else. I've been following this conflict for so long I can actually think about it as an expert would. And before you start stabbing at me for using the word "expert," I would consider most of the people who contribute to this thread diligently experts. Experts are people who know a lot about a topic because they have researched it more than the average person. Does not mean they are right or wrong, only that they know a lot of facts and are aware of the major arguments.
I do spend time reading/watching others on this topic and I share all of those resources here. You know where I get my ideas from. There is no fakery here. I do genuinely have a good basis to know what the intentions of the invasion are. I've read at least three books on Ukraine and countless articles and hundreds of videos. I don't need cajones to predict why Ukraine invaded; I have a basic body of knowledge from which to draw my conclusions.
That you continue to be a major participant in this thread and you can't say squat about the topic is something you might want to think about. What stops you from reading a variety of other people? You don't have to post as if you thought of it yourself--you can cite people, as I do. Don't you think that would be an improvement on just being a troll?
a troll? moi? don't be ridiculous.
I have explained umpteen times why I choose not to engage substantively with you (for the most part anyway), and I ain't gonna explain it again.
I will continue to read your advice to Ukraine as to how you think they should be defending themselves, and comment as appropriate.
I hope you are not accusing me of doing that because I don't.
When the invasion first happened and I posted about it, I had not listened to anyone else. I've been following this conflict for so long I can actually think about it as an expert would. And before you start stabbing at me for using the word "expert," I would consider most of the people who contribute to this thread diligently experts. Experts are people who know a lot about a topic because they have researched it more than the average person. Does not mean they are right or wrong, only that they know a lot of facts and are aware of the major arguments.
I do spend time reading/watching others on this topic and I share all of those resources here. You know where I get my ideas from. There is no fakery here. I do genuinely have a good basis to know what the intentions of the invasion are. I've read at least three books on Ukraine and countless articles and hundreds of videos. I don't need cajones to predict why Ukraine invaded; I have a basic body of knowledge from which to draw my conclusions.
That you continue to be a major participant in this thread and you can't say squat about the topic is something you might want to think about. What stops you from reading a variety of other people? You don't have to post as if you thought of it yourself--you can cite people, as I do. Don't you think that would be an improvement on just being a troll?
a troll? moi? don't be ridiculous.
I have explained umpteen times why I choose not to engage substantively with you (for the most part anyway), and I ain't gonna explain it again.
I will continue to read your advice to Ukraine as to how you think they should be defending themselves, and comment as appropriate.
It seems they wanted the nuclear power plant and publicity but fell short. Still a big escalation.
I'm sorry, I thought you had told us that sending troops across an international border was a sign of seeking peace?
Did I say that every time troops are sent across international borders it meant they were seeking peace? Every time? Please show me where I said that because there is no way I would say that.
There can be multiple reasons why a country would invade another and this Ukraine invading Russia gambit is particularly enigmatic. There are multiple possible reasons why this happened.
Here Brian Berletic discusses many of them.
- Ukraine’s “offensive” into Kursk, Russia was another example of Kiev’s costly public relations campaigns, this time designed to prove Ukraine can “bring the war to Russian soil;”
- In reality, Ukraine expended manpower and equipment it does not have to spare, as well as stretching its already struggling logistical network;
- Additional attempts by Ukraine to appear strong as its strategically collapses include alleged special military operations in Africa aimed at undermining Russian security cooperation in the region;
- Ukraine’s suggested involvement in military operations in Mali resulting in the death of government troops has resulted in the severing of relations between Mali and Niger with Ukraine;
- “Ukrainian” operations worldwide provide cover for what are likely Western activities conducted by proxy against Russia just as it does against Chinese interests around the globe and is doing in Ukraine against Russia, which itself is a proxy war;
Might be that or it might just be the equivalent of the Doolittle Raid. My money is on the latter. Ukraine just wanted to embarrass Putin and they succeeded. And Russia will undoubtedly reposition some forces to prevent additional embarrassments.
I will concede that no longer having diplomatic relations with Mali and Niger is a setback.
Gift link
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/07/world/europe/ukraine-russia-cross-border-assault.html?unlocked_article_code=1.BU4.6P5_.NamTPcgEAzG8&smid=url-share