Someone is on fire outside the NYC courthouse.
This tells about what happened and includes a short video of him singing "Start a F***ing Revolution:
nan said:
Here is his manifesto:
https://twitter.com/CensoredMen/status/1781396191135056283
and substack
have you read these things?
if so, why?
drummerboy said:
nan said:
Here is his manifesto:
https://twitter.com/CensoredMen/status/1781396191135056283
and substack
have you read these things?
if so, why?
Yes, I read them. I was thinking of Aaron Bushnell. When people do something this extreme, I think we should at least listen to what they are saying.
nan said:
Yes, I read them. I was thinking of Aaron Bushnell. When people do something this extreme, I think we should at least listen to what they are saying.
That’s why you are such a conflicted person. You listen and believe every conspiracy theory you can get your brain to believe is plausible.
Setting yourself on fire and hoping that trump will run out of the courtroom with a fire extinguisher is a sign of mental illness. So now you’re gonna be posting excerpts from his manifesto and asking us to read it.
Well this response is more detailed than the news coverage. A spokesman for the police described it as a man who came from Florida, had been protesting previous days and seemed neither aligned with pro or anti Trump groups. I flashed to the Buddhist monk who set himself on fire in 1963,
This is tragic. Compared to an image that changed history, this poor soul appears to have been lost in the news cycle.
Jaytee said:
nan said:
Yes, I read them. I was thinking of Aaron Bushnell. When people do something this extreme, I think we should at least listen to what they are saying.
That’s why you are such a conflicted person. You listen and believe every conspiracy theory you can get your brain to believe is plausible.
Setting yourself on fire and hoping that trump will run out of the courtroom with a fire extinguisher is a sign of mental illness. So now you’re gonna be posting excerpts from his manifesto and asking us to read it.
I said I read his stuff. I did not say I believed anything. I also never demanded anyone else to read anything. I don't see the problem with posting what the guy wanted to communicate. Kindness and respect - ever heard of those?
I did read some things about him and he was a Bernie Sanders supporter. He hated Trump so I'm curious where you got the information that he was hoping Trump would run out of a courtroom with a fire extinguisher. He was near the courthouse in the city, but from what I saw he did not explain the significance of that. I also doubt you are qualified to diagnose mental illness. I know I'm not. I don't know why he did what he did but I feel sorry for him. From what I read, he was a nice person who cared about things going on in the world. I'm sure he has a family who are very upset. He had or was working on some kind of degree or had done that--I'm not sure, but he's in a different place now.
Morganna said:
Well this response is more detailed than the news coverage. A spokesman for the police described it as a man who came from Florida, had been protesting previous days and seemed neither aligned with pro or anti Trump groups. I flashed to the Buddhist monk who set himself on fire in 1963,
This is tragic. Compared to an image that changed history, this poor soul appears to have been lost in the news cycle.
The Buddhist monk made history, but generally people who immolate themselves for social protest are swept under the rug and characterized as crazy (and at least some of them might actually be crazy). Aaron Bushnell understood that and did his in a way that was difficult to suppress (set up his camera beforehand, had signs and screamed out his message). This guy had links on substance and a statement but it's not so clear why he decided to set himself on fire.
It's ironic that the costliest form of protest to the protester is the least effective to the public.
Frome supreme sacrifice to quickly forgotten.
nan said:
Jaytee said:
nan said:
Yes, I read them. I was thinking of Aaron Bushnell. When people do something this extreme, I think we should at least listen to what they are saying.
That’s why you are such a conflicted person. You listen and believe every conspiracy theory you can get your brain to believe is plausible.
Setting yourself on fire and hoping that trump will run out of the courtroom with a fire extinguisher is a sign of mental illness. So now you’re gonna be posting excerpts from his manifesto and asking us to read it.I said I read his stuff. I did not say I believed anything. I also never demanded anyone else to read anything. I don't see the problem with posting what the guy wanted to communicate. Kindness and respect - ever heard of those?
I did read some things about him and he was a Bernie Sanders supporter. He hated Trump so I'm curious where you got the information that he was hoping Trump would run out of a courtroom with a fire extinguisher. He was near the courthouse in the city, but from what I saw he did not explain the significance of that. I also doubt you are qualified to diagnose mental illness. I know I'm not. I don't know why he did what he did but I feel sorry for him. From what I read, he was a nice person who cared about things going on in the world. I'm sure he has a family who are very upset. He had or was working on some kind of degree or had done that--I'm not sure, but he's in a different place now.
He thought Trump and Biden were colluding to form a world government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizotypal_personality_disorder
Just came across this. The author laments Azzarello's conclusions and says we all have some of the same confusion.
Patrick Lawrence: This Isn’t Fascism
Political confusion and deluded notions of fascism colored Max Azzarello’s tragic death by self-immolation.
https://consortiumnews.com/2024/04/30/patrick-lawrence-this-isnt-fascism/
I just feel so bad for the man's family. They are the only ones for whom his actions will have lasting consequences.
I would call this a tragic failure of America's mental health system if America had any semblance of a mental health system.
nan said:
Just came across this. The author laments Azzarello's conclusions and says we all have some of the same confusion.
Patrick Lawrence: This Isn’t Fascism
Political confusion and deluded notions of fascism colored Max Azzarello’s tragic death by self-immolation.
https://consortiumnews.com/2024/04/30/patrick-lawrence-this-isnt-fascism/
The author's disrespect for what Umberto Eco wrote about fascism comes through loud and clear. So, I don't have a good opinion of the author or of his lame attempt to use the unfortunate death in order to push his own point of view.
nohero said:
nan said:
Just came across this. The author laments Azzarello's conclusions and says we all have some of the same confusion.
Patrick Lawrence: This Isn’t Fascism
Political confusion and deluded notions of fascism colored Max Azzarello’s tragic death by self-immolation.
https://consortiumnews.com/2024/04/30/patrick-lawrence-this-isnt-fascism/
The author's disrespect for what Umberto Eco wrote about fascism comes through loud and clear. So, I don't have a good opinion of the author or of his lame attempt to use the unfortunate death in order to push his own point of view.
the splitting of hairs over the definition of fascism is so tiresome.
when people scream fascism, they are usually simply expressing fear of an oppressive, anti-democratic government.
it's the same if they scream communism/socialism.
I'm as guilty as any lefty of sometimes focusing too much on the fact that Trumpers screaming communism couldn't define communism one bit. Yes, we can laugh at them for their obvious ignorance.
But that totally misses the point. As does Patrick Lawrence.
People fear oppression and loss of freedom. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean they're justified in fearing that oppression. Often people are stoked into fear in order to support a political party or demagogue. And if someone having this fear specifically expresses what they fear, then there is something to discuss.
Are regulations on water use in dishwashers something to fear? Probably not.
How about Democrats wanting to abort babies post-birth? Again, no.
Are widespread attempts to make voting harder something to fear? Probably yes.
Expressed threats to weaponize the DOJ? Obviously yes.
and so on.
I haven't read Azzarello's complaints, so I don't know if he had a rational take on these fears or not. But simply focusing on whether what he feared fit some arbitrary definition of the word fascism is a pretty lazy take on his plight if you ask me. No two oppressive governments work exactly the same way. No definition will ever fit everyone, or maybe even more than one for that matter.
As for where we stand at the moment, Lawrence complains about Rachel Maddow:
Much of this, let’s call it the pollution of public discourse, comes from the liberal authoritarians. Rachel Maddow, to take one of the more pitiful cases, wants us to think Trump the dictator will end elections, destroy the courts, and render the Congress powerless. The MSNBC commentator has actually said these things on air.
First of all, he calls her a liberal authoritarian? Really? And he's complaining about hyperbole?
Is Trump likely to "end elections, destroy the courts, and render the Congress powerless." Completely? Highly unlikely. But is that her point? Will he work to drastically undermine elections, refashion the courts to make them work even less for the public good and attempt to steal power from Congress, decreasing their power while increasing his own, diminishing democracy in the process?
Is that even a question at this point? Of course he will, and already has. Between Project 2025 which he has embraced, and his recent interview with Time that is his clear intention.
Is that something to fear? Of course it is if you care about democracy.
I don’t know Lawrence. Haven’t read him before and given this article I’m surprised he’s had such a long career. Based on this piece, he’s not someone to take seriously.
I do think that there is a reasonable fear of Trump hurting the court systems if he were re-elected. I had a chance to watch a replay of the comments from Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett, during their hearings, reassuring us of Roe's precedence. First chance they got they overturned it. The people I knew who voted for Trump despite claiming to support a women's right to choose all argued that Roe would never be overturned. And here we are.
SCOTUS is doing all that it can to drag their feet on deciding the issue of Trump's immunity.
If Trump is re-elected, he will have the opportunity to replace older conservatives with younger ones extending their hold on SCOTUS. Republicans refused to consider President Obama's choice, Garland with some manipulated time frame, and bent that same rule to anoint Barrett so cheating is part of the game. Running the Executive Branch, having a hold on the Legilative and influencing the Judicial is a catastrophic grip on power.
He'll have lots of opportunities to populate the lower courts. Aileen Cannon is an example of Trump's appointments.
I share Rachel Maddow's concern about the damage to democracy that Trump can do to the courts.
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What has happened.?
The news has no other information but watching it as it happened was strange as it occurred the moment the jury was finalized. The man has been hospitalized and the assumption is that he is a homeless person.