Steam Boiler Issues

During my annual boiler service, the service guy said I needed a new gas control valve for my Burnham boiler (I have steam heat) and says the part costs $750, not including service. Online I see the exact same part, Honeywell8200C 1041, selling for under $200. Paying $550 above cost, a markup of 375%, seems like an extreme rip off to me. Anyone know what a normal markup would be?

Service guy also said that the gas pressure coming into my house from the street is 7.11 inches WC. However he doesn't believe that's high enough to heat my house properly. From what I see online I'm not so sure. Does anyone know what the normal pressure is for the gas line coming into your house?

And any recommendations for another plumber to look at this?

No advice, my boiler is oil, but I can recommend Right One plumbing (an advertiser on this site) without hesitation.  Get a second opinion.

get another estimate. Who did you use?

Maybe call PSE&G or your gas supplier? They should be able to check and correct gas pressure and can also fix your valve. I think they will also add the cost to your bill and spread out the payments. 

Thanks to everyone here for their advice.  I am going to call PSEG tomorrow to see about checking the pressure.  I've heard that others in Maplewood have had some problems with the lines coming into their homes.

I've been using Gateway Plumbing and Heating for my service, since they installed the boiler.  But I don't think I'll be using them in the future, so thanks for the recommendation.

gosh I just used them and I thought they gave me a very reasonable estimate.  Usually the owner replies to posts. His username is master plumber You should write him.  

oops. I could be wrong. Who is Master Plumber?

We use Gateway and have never had a problem with price gouging.  Please contact the owner, Johnny Cataneo, and tell him what happened. 

We had Gateway convert our boiler from oil to gas about 10 years ago. We used them for several years afterward until one annual cleaning. The automatic water feeder previously stopped working so I was filling it manually. Since they were there I asked them to change it, it turned out to be 645 dollars. It literally took about 15- 20 minutes and after googling the price it was like 350 dollars in labor if not more.  I called the office to complain but it went nowhere. The problem is if I remember it was like a pre determined price no matter the difficulty of the job. The young mechanic showed me the sheet after I questioned it. I’m for a company making a profit but that was ridiculous. I actually chose gateway and used them because they are a union shop so I didn’t mind paying a little more. That was to excessive though.

It is pretty common for the mechanical trades (including automotive repairs) to use standard price sheets.  I suppose in most cases, the work is completed more quickly than estimated.  Sometimes the job is really hard.

Moreover,  all of these companies have a lot of overhead to deal with - travel  time to and from jobs, trying to attract and retain good workers., etc., etc.  

My experience with Gateway has been uniformly positive including the time when a tech worked for an entire Sunday afternoon no charge to troubleshoot and fix a boiler failure that occurred just after the annual maintenance.

Until I see the owners driving around town in Maybachs, I'm not going to be too concerned about their prices.

If you want to try a different plumber, I whole-heartedly recommend Anthony Masi - Amasi Plumbing - 973-444-2122. He is honest, hardworking and responsive and has always done a great job for us at fair prices.

No judgement re Gateway. I’ve never used them, but have learned a lot from Master Plvmber’s posts here over the years.

Actually, judging from the endorsements and recommendations I’ve seen over the years both here and on Facebook, we have a lot of great plumbers in this area.

Citizenjane, I left a message with my cell with your assistant. Please call asap. This was not quite the simple service call you seem to be under the impression it was. The guy I sent to your home is an honest man, a very skilled boiler technician, and your valve was not a common item. In addition, not everyone checks gas pressures or even knows how to or has the equipment to do it. I will explain when you call but to base the price of this service call on the internet price of a gas valve is not a complete accounting of the costs. 
I look forward to hearing from you.   

Thanks again to everyone here.  I am now discussing the issues with John Cataneo.

Hi. I was in need of a plumber for 3 separate issues within two weeks. I used Gateway plumbing, specifically Strato from Gateway. He is the nicest most genuine person with a great sense of humor. He did excellent work, charged reasonable prices for all work and even recommended against certain work that I really didn’t need.  I don’t know if all the workers for Gateway are union but Strato is union. Everyone deserves a decent wage and benefits so if that means paying a little bit more then don’t you think that we should?  And yet I don’t feel like I over-payed for any of the work. Perhaps

If I shopped around I could have gotten it done more cheaply by a handy man but I would not have felt confident about it. I like to use professionals/experts who are insured and usually get it done right the first time. I have used a different plumber who DEFINITELY over-charged me and I was not happy. But I have been very happy 

With Strato/Gateway and will use them again. Thanks Strato!

citizenjane said:

During my annual boiler service, the service guy said I needed a new gas control valve for my Burnham boiler (I have steam heat) and says the part costs $750, not including service. Online I see the exact same part, Honeywell8200C 1041, selling for under $200. Paying $550 above cost, a markup of 375%, seems like an extreme rip off to me. Anyone know what a normal markup would be?

 citizenjane: was the "under $200" price you found online for the part a wholesale price? If so: how did you do it?  Wholesale prices are often closely guarded. IF it was a retail price  - then the mark-up for the part (from the plumber's cost) would be considerably more than $550.

master_plvmber said:
Citizenjane     This was not quite the simple service call you seem to be under the impression it was. The guy I sent to your home is an honest man, a very skilled boiler technician, and your valve was not a common item. In addition, not everyone checks gas pressures or even knows how to or has the equipment to do it. I will explain when you call but to base the price of this service call on the internet price of a gas valve is not a complete accounting of the costs. 
  

master plvmber:  did citizen jane mistate the facts?  Her post states that the 

citizenjane said:

 the part costs $750, not including service. Online I see the exact same part, Honeywell8200C 1041, selling for under $200. 

 Yet your defense of the bill presented to her is

master_plvmber said:
 This was not quite the simple service call you seem to be under the impression it was. The guy I sent to your home is an honest man, a very skilled boiler technician, and your valve was not a common item. In addition, not everyone checks gas pressures or even knows how to or has the equipment to do it. I will explain when you call but to base the price of this service call on the internet price of a gas valve is not a complete accounting of the costs. 
  

 which sounds like a justification for the labor charge.  But citizenjane did not mention the labor charge - her complaint was about the charge for the part.

That's why I asked if she misstated the facts.

IF she did not - then did you understand her complaint in the opening post?

And may I ask: What was the amount billed for the labor? Your defense of the service call charge reminds me of what a gentleman told me several years ago:  

He was comfortably semi-recumbent on a gurney,  while I was standing. I asked him: "Sir, do you smoke?" He held up his hand, as if testifying in court, and said "I haven't had a drink in 6 months".

Very nice lawyer-style assassination of a local contractor.  I suspect what really happened was that the service technician, not having his lawyer and speechwriter with him, didn't explain the problem to CitizenJane in a way that made sense to her and she was left feeling overcharged.

And why pipe in at all with that when she already said that she is discussing this with the contractor?  

I like the fact that the customer and the owner of the Plumbing company are talking.  That is the best of all solutions.

Hit on Social Media without any first hand information are as what tjohn said, lawyer-style assassinations.

Several  months ago we had our steam boiler replaced. Since then the radiators have been hissing more than ever and I can hear water rushing through the pipes. Today I discovered that one radiator is spitting boiling hot water so I turned the valve off. I suspect we need a plumber to evaluate the entire system but I'm about to go away for a week. Is this an emergency or can it wait?

Edited to add: Checked the gauge and it is showing 0 psi. 

shestheone said:
Several  months ago we had our steam boiler replaced. Since then the radiators have been hissing more than ever and I can hear water rushing through the pipes. Today I discovered that one radiator is spitting boiling hot water so I turned the valve off. I suspect we need a plumber to evaluate the entire system but I'm about to go away for a week. Is this an emergency or can it wait?


Edited to add: Checked the gauge and it is showing 0 psi. 

 We used to have a steam system, and as I recall, when we had a similar situation it was because the boiler had been overfilled with water (due to a leaky fill valve, if I remember correctly). Could that be the problem?

shestheone said:
Several  months ago we had our steam boiler replaced. Since then the radiators have been hissing more than ever and I can hear water rushing through the pipes. Today I discovered that one radiator is spitting boiling hot water so I turned the valve off. I suspect we need a plumber to evaluate the entire system but I'm about to go away for a week. Is this an emergency or can it wait?


Edited to add: Checked the gauge and it is showing 0 psi. 

It sounds like your boiler needs to be skimmed to remove oil contamination.  You will probably want to have a plumber do this.  I guess you want to get this fixed ASAP because it is going to be cold this week.

When a new boiler is installed, there is likely to be some oil contamination from the machine tools used to manufacture the boiler.  When there is oil in a boiler, it causes the boiling water to foam up and this carries a lot of water into the steam lines.  This is called surging.

Now, when a plumber skims the boiler, he will remove one of the plugs on the side of the boiler and install a temporary skim pipe.  Then, with the boiler running, replacement water will be added and the overflow out of the skim pipe will remove the oil. 

Call Mike Grieco. 973.379.1096

Been dealing with him since the last century when he replaced our steam boiler. The times I've checked his markup on parts, they seemed reasonable to me, as did the labor costs.

A neighbor used him a few years ago, and was more than pleased with the service and pricing.

The booker's name is Luci. Tell her I made the recommendation.

Hope all works out well.

TomR

shestheone said:
Several  months ago we had our steam boiler replaced. Since then the radiators have been hissing more than ever and I can hear water rushing through the pipes. Today I discovered that one radiator is spitting boiling hot water so I turned the valve off. I suspect we need a plumber to evaluate the entire system but I'm about to go away for a week. Is this an emergency or can it wait?


Edited to add: Checked the gauge and it is showing 0 psi. 

 Did the installer return to clean out the system after its install?  For the new steam boiler here, plumber did 2 clean outs (as part of the install).

Have the original installer take care of this

With Spring coming, I raise an issue about which there seems to be a distinct lack of consensus on the internet:  What, if anything, do you do to prep the boiler for the off season.  Some people say fill it up to top and leave it.  Others insist it should be totally drained.  Others say just leave it alone.  All sides seemed to be concerned that the other's advice will promote rust or rot.  What to do?

I drain out the Rusty water, then fill halfway. Turn the boiler off and leave it. I never leave the boiler empty, but that's just my opinion. I'm not an expert. 

I do the same as jaytee.  ask your oil company.  Wooley's and Appolo have told me never to leave it empty.

It certainly seems to make sense to drain out the last bit of sludge.  The difference of opinion seems to be whether its better/worse to leave the tank exposed to water or air.    

Water doesn't cause rust. Oxygen does.  There's going to be some water left in the tank once you drain it, so you have a closed metal container full of humid air.  Rust-a-palooza.

I had one boiler tech tell me the best thing to do at the end of the season is drain the tank, then refill it, turn it on and let it develop steam for a little while.  According to him that deoxygenates the water in the tank (confirmed by science).  So then your tank is full of deoxygenated water. 

If you fill it up to the bottom of the steam pipe coming out of the top of the boiler, there's a very small surface area exposed to the air so the water shouldn't be able to reabsorb a lot of oxygen. So your tank will be full of low oxygen water and the inner walls aren't exposed to a lot of oxygen. Then in the fall you drop the water level back to normal.  Continuous use should keep the level of dissolved oxygen low.

It's why you're also not supposed to frequently drain and refill your boiler during the heating season.

Apart from the whole keeping us from dying thing, oxygen is pretty hostile stuff.

Is the top of the glass equal to the top of the tank?  Is that how you know its full to the top?  And just so I'm clear, after you fill it to the top, you let it run for a while to generate some steam and then just shut down and leave it alone?

I won't pretend to know the answer to the first question. 

But yes, I was told to bring the boiler back up to steam heat after overfilling it.