NYT article on the need for new tunnels

@dk50b, any thoughts on the article? This jumped out at me:

"A Regional Plan Association study showed property values for New Jersey houses within a half-mile of a train station rising $3,000 for every single minute knocked off commuting time."

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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/08/arts/design/the-case-for-new-hudson-river-rail-tunnels.html

The Case for New Hudson River Rail Tunnels

Across the country, competition is stiff for the most dilapidated bridge, tunnel or train system.

But a plan for a pair of new passenger tunnels under the Hudson River, called Gateway, surely ranks one, two and three in terms of urgent rail projects.

Passenger traffic under the Hudson River — and by association a hefty chunk of the nation’s economy — relies on a couple of broken-down, century-old tunnels strained to capacity. They serve Amtrak and New Jersey Transit trains that at rush hour have come to resemble the Marx Brothers’ stateroom scene.

Gateway, which has been pushed by the Obama administration, calls for two new passenger rail tunnels feeding into Pennsylvania Station in Manhattan, the nation’s busiest and most disgusting transit hub, not to mention a potential fire trap. In 2010, Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey killed a plan called ARC to add tunnels. Despite federal assurances to the contrary, he claimed potential cost overruns could leave his state holding the bag. Instead, Governor Christie directed money already set aside for the tunnels (including billions from the Port Authority) to roadway projects. Considering the Hudson is a chokepoint for passenger rail traffic all the way from Boston to Washington and even beyond, that move left the whole Eastern Seaboard transportation network in a highly precarious position.

New tunnels would require a revamping and expansion of the current station to handle increased demand. This became obvious after Hurricane Sandy socked the existing tunnels. Engineers realized both tunnels urgently needed repairs to avoid Railmageddon. Built on silt, they move with the tide. People who have inspected them tell me they’ve seen pools of water. Today the tunnels barely manage 24 trains at peak hours. Closing one for long-term repairs, experts say, will reduce the hourly number to six trains, an 80 percent drop, which, as Tom Wright, president of the Regional Plan Association, put it the other day, would be “a catastrophe for the Northeast,” with implications that “register on” the national gross domestic product.

New tunnels would handle increased demand and cut travel time. A Regional Plan Association study showed property values for New Jersey houses within a half-mile of a train station rising $3,000 for every single minute knocked off commuting time. The benefits accrued out to two miles, potentially adding up to $18 billion — billions more than Gateway’s current $15 billion projected tab. That’s not counting benefits for farther-flung commuters: Philadelphia’s mayor is a fan of Gateway for good reason.
New Yorkers would profit as much as anyone. The city needs better access to more affordable areas of the region where skilled employees can live; it shouldn’t lose human capital to other parts of the country because squabbling public officials dawdle for decades over a tunnel plan.

But new tunnels aren’t enough. Gateway without a better Penn Station to serve more riders and a booming west side of Manhattan would be tantamount to buying a big fancy garden hose without swapping out the rusty little bucket the water pours into. Efforts to move Amtrak into Moynihan Station (the James A. Farley Post Office), across the street from Penn Station, help a little. Amtrak is, itself, just a drop in the bucket, in terms of ridership, accounting for maybe 5 percent of the passengers who use the station.
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The Port Authority’s stegosaurus-skeleton of a Path Station shortly opening in Lower Manhattan — a $4 billion shopping mall and ego trip by its designer, Santiago Calatrava — may suggest otherwise, but upgraded rail service and improved public space in the form of safe, efficient and dignified transit hubs go hand in hand. They’re both environmental and social justice no-brainers. The old tunnel plan, quashed by Governor Christie, skirted Penn Station, which posed problems. Gateway solves them by feeding into what would become new tracks terminating on the block between Seventh and Eighth Avenues and 31st and 30th Streets. Penn Station would expand, in other words, to create Penn South. There are proposals to continue the tunnels on to Grand Central, relieving jammed train traffic and overcrowded platforms at Penn. Experts I’ve spoken with say, ideally, Gateway would provide stops at Penn and also Grand Central.

What Gateway can’t solve is Madison Square Garden. This month marks two years since the New York City Council denied the Garden a special permit to operate in perpetuity on top of Penn Station. The council granted the Garden’s owners, the Dolan family, a 10-year permit extension, hoping a deadline might spur interested parties like New York State, Metro North and New Jersey Transit, and the Dolans themselves, to move the aging arena, making it easier to improve conditions for hundreds of thousands of daily travelers trapped underneath it.

Rumor has it that Vornado, the giant real estate developer, which owns property around Penn Station, is preparing to revive a late-Bloomberg-era proposal to partially close off 33rd Street between Seventh and Eighth Avenues to car traffic, giving the street over to pedestrians and upgrading access to the station, bringing more light and air down into it. That might be a useful step forward, as would turning backroom Amtrak office space now inside the station over to passengers, opening up cramped and confusing concourses.

But an unmoved Garden would still blight the neighborhood and impede the arrival of a safer, truly better station. While its owners aren’t yet budging, even as Barclays Center in Brooklyn makes the Garden look like a relic, the Dolans are business people. They answer to stockholders, who ought to entertain any proposal to move to a great new location if the price were right.

How about free? For a competition the Municipal Art Society organized a couple of years ago, SHoP Architects, designers of Barclays Center, proposed that the Dolans get a free arena on the site of the giant Morgan mail-sorting center, next to Hudson Yards and the High Line, a stone’s throw from what would become Penn South. An interested developer like, say, Related, which owns Hudson Yards, would pay to build the arena in return for the right to develop all of the 4.5 million square feet of air rights at the Morgan site.
The plan would require the Post Office to get on board, which it has shown no willingness to do; some federal bigwig like Senator Chuck Schumer, Democrat of New York, would need to help press the case. The scheme would also make some very rich people richer by taking over public property, so it’s no surprise that Related has stirred this pot. Yielding any public land for private development raises red flags. It needs to prove its public worth.

At the same time, a facility on a prime piece of Midtown real estate that now delivers Kmart fliers by snail mail would in effect make way for a 21st-century Penn Station, a hub finally deserving of the public’s investment in new tunnels — and befitting a great city. There are other intriguing ideas worth pursuing. But right now, this one has the best shot.

Meanwhile, Gateway is the first step. It’s time to start digging.

Of all Christie's colossally bad mistakes, this was the most costly to NJ. As noted in the article and ad nauseum by me, cancelling ARC on false pretenses to steal the funds to put off bankruptcy of the TTF by not even the the promised 5 years forfeited the biggest Federal mass transit grant ever and lost $18 billion in property value increase and a huge loss of access to higher City wages.

http://www.njspotlight.com/stories/14/04/03/christie-s-borrowing-binge-makes-transportation-trust-fund-run-dry/?p=all

We'll likely have to kick in $5 billion for Gateway, a tunnel that's not ours with half the capacity for NJT of ARC. That's $2 billion more than ARC. And we don't have a penny of it due to the TTF running dry, and Gateway has zero committed from the Feds for construction.

http://www.njspotlight.com/stories/12/0410/2334/

The most toxic legacy ever.

Thanks for this article, even though it was horribly depressing and anxiety-inducing!!

I read this article this morning as I sat on a delayed train, getting to work 20 minutes late.

The disaster that awaits NJ commuters and NE corridor Amtrak riders is beyond belief. Except for GOP-controlled states refusing Medicaid expansion money under the ACA, this is easily the worst domestic policy decision in this century. As the article rightly notes, this is going to impact the national economy, not just the regional one.

Admittedly, I have not read up on the issue as much as I'd like, but I was under the impression Christie axed the 3rd tunnel b/c NJ was going to be on the hook for the (inevitable) cost overruns.

agbarganza said:
Admittedly, I have not read up on the issue as much as I'd like, but I was under the impression Christie axed the 3rd tunnel b/c NJ was going to be on the hook for the (inevitable) cost overruns.

That and he wanted to divert the money to the Pulaski Skyway project so that he could do this without raising taxes. We're going to be paying for electing that guy for a very long time.

agbarganza said:
Admittedly, I have not read up on the issue as much as I'd like, but I was under the impression Christie axed the 3rd tunnel b/c NJ was going to be on the hook for the (inevitable) cost overruns.

This is dk50b territory, but I think the cost overrun excuse was pretty thoroughly debunked at the time.

davidfrazer said:
The disaster that awaits NJ commuters and NE corridor Amtrak riders is beyond belief. Except for GOP-controlled states refusing Medicaid expansion money under the ACA, this is easily the worst domestic policy decision in this century. As the article rightly notes, this is going to impact the national economy, not just the regional one.

We just need to look at GOP policies when it comes to government single payer medical insurance, infrastructure, education, abortion, social initiatives such as gay marriage, etc. to obviously realize the GOP is relentless into turning us into a third world country.

The big GOP donors take helicopters. What do they care about transportation infrastructure?

Just read the Kimmelman NYT article. I totally agree building additional train tunnels is an absolute and immediate necessity, but as much as I despise Penn Station, sadly I don't see how any plan that involves moving the Garden as more than a pipe dream in the near term. Didn't the Dolan's just put several $100 million into renovating the Garden when it became clear that the additional rail tunnels and Penn / Westside redevelopment was shelved? Given their financial and political clout is it realistic to expect the Garden to go anywhere in the next 15-20 years?

...Then again, at the rate this type of project gets approved and built these days, maybe it's not out there to expect the 'New' MSG to be old by the time in question. :-(

Why not proceed with the proposal to extend the #7 subway to Secaucus Junction?

A new tunnel would serve more people and why should hundreds of thousands of commuters need a less convenient solution and I doubt Secaucus junction could handle that many additional passengers. That station does not handle large crowds well and still means building another tunnel. There was no real proposal, just a diversion from what was already a plan with most of the funding in place. Chrisite was thinking the MTA would pay for it and that is not happening.

tjohn said:
Why not proceed with the proposal to extend the #7 subway to Secaucus Junction?

mikescott said:
A new tunnel would serve more people and why should hundreds of thousands of commuters need a less convenient solution and I doubt Secaucus junction could handle that many additional passengers. That station does not handle large crowds well and still means building another tunnel. There was no real proposal, just a diversion from what was already a plan with most of the funding in place. Chrisite was thinking the MTA would pay for it and that is not happening.

tjohn said:
Why not proceed with the proposal to extend the #7 subway to Secaucus Junction?

Penn Station handles about 90K per day. A 7th Ave extension could handle 30K per day.

And there is the added benefit of easy access to Queens if they ever host a MLB team.

Today the tunnels barely manage 24 trains at peak hours. Closing one for
long-term repairs, experts say, will reduce the hourly number to six
trains.

This sounds a bit fuzzy to me.

Amtrak is, itself, just a drop in the bucket, in terms of ridership,
accounting for maybe 5 percent of the passengers who use the station.

Yet cause about 85% of the delays....

They control traffic flow in and out of the station as well as access to the corridor.

24 down to 6 per hour makes sense because with current 2 tunnel set-up trains can go past each other simultaneously under the river...under the one tunnel scenario the in- and out-bound trains would have to take turns using the one tunnel....i suppose you could move 12 per hour through if all train traffic were one way for a given hour.

kevin said:
Today the tunnels barely manage 24 trains at peak hours. Closing one for
long-term repairs, experts say, will reduce the hourly number to six
trains.
This sounds a bit fuzzy to me.

Amtrak is, itself, just a drop in the bucket, in terms of ridership,
accounting for maybe 5 percent of the passengers who use the station.
Yet they cause about 85% of the delays....
They control traffic flow in and out of the station as well as access to the corridor.

kevin said:
Today the tunnels barely manage 24 trains at peak hours. Closing one for
long-term repairs, experts say, will reduce the hourly number to six
trains.
This sounds a bit fuzzy to me.

Amtrak is, itself, just a drop in the bucket, in terms of ridership,
accounting for maybe 5 percent of the passengers who use the station.
Yet cause about 85% of the delays....
They control traffic flow in and out of the station as well as access to the corridor.

Think of it in terms of trips. 24 trips across 2 tunnels is 12 trips per tunnel. But trips have to go both ways and you can't have an incoming train on the track at the same time as an outgoing train -- they'll collide! So you have to wait for one to completely pass through the switches, and then send the next one on its way.

tom said:

kevin said:
Today the tunnels barely manage 24 trains at peak hours. Closing one for
long-term repairs, experts say, will reduce the hourly number to six
trains.
This sounds a bit fuzzy to me.

Amtrak is, itself, just a drop in the bucket, in terms of ridership,
accounting for maybe 5 percent of the passengers who use the station.
Yet cause about 85% of the delays....
They control traffic flow in and out of the station as well as access to the corridor.

Think of it in terms of trips. 24 trips across 2 tunnels is 12 trips per tunnel. But trips have to go both ways and you can't have an incoming train on the track at the same time as an outgoing train -- they'll collide! So you have to wait for one to completely pass through the switches, and then send the next one on its way.

Thanks Tom, makes sense. However, I don't understand why they have to have only one train in the tunnel at a time - I would think that the tunnel has to be at least 2.5 miles long. They could push more trains going in the same direction during rush hours in the direction of the rush, and queue up the non-rush trains. The big fear should be when there is a problem either in the lone tunnel or at a place that cannot be switched around.

Also, it seems to me, as a rush hour commuter, that Amtrak takes up many prime time slots. For some routes, it is a necessity, but not for others. I think that they could optimize their scheduling.

davidfrazer said:

agbarganza said:
Admittedly, I have not read up on the issue as much as I'd like, but I was under the impression Christie axed the 3rd tunnel b/c NJ was going to be on the hook for the (inevitable) cost overruns.

This is dk50b territory, but I think the cost overrun excuse was pretty thoroughly debunked at the time.

Yes, as the grantee NJ was responsible for any cost overruns. But this was a red herring, as every grantee is responsible for overruns. That's why the LIRR East Side Access to Grand Central and the 2nd Avenue Subway have dragged on so long, they had exploding overruns that NY had to cover. The Federal Transportation Secretary was so desperate to salvage this most vital in the US project he made the fiirsty ever offer to provide assistance with any higher costs. The allegedly ballooning costs were also a lie, they hadn't changed since Christie took office. He forced his officials to reverse prior assessments and state costs were higher and the project had to be cancelled.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/10/nyregion/report-disputes-christies-reason-for-halting-tunnel-project-in-2010.html

Christie saw $3 billion going to mass transit and stole it to keep the TTF on life support and avoid a gas tax hike. In the process, he violated SEC regulations and NY State law by diverting PA funds to the Skyway in violation of the PA's charter. Again, his goon squad at the PA forced a change in the initial emphatic assessment by PA lawyers it was illegal.

http://www.mainjustice.com/2014/04/25/sec-joins-manhattan-da-to-probe-christies-diversion-of-port-authority-funds/

The destruction of the PA by Christie's strong-armed takeover is another horrific blow to both state's economies that so far continues. The biggest project on the PA's plate is the unnecessary $4 billion PATH Newark Airport Extension. This is a gift to United for establishing service to Atlantic City after Chrsite forced the PAS to take over their airport, and setting up "the Chairman's flight" for Samson and family to get to thier SC vacation home on the weekend. Goes without saying the money should have built ARC. But if an airport needs rail service, shouldn't the only only one lacking it be the recipient? I speak of that international embarrassment, LaGuardia. No governor had ever done so much damage to the region or stolen as much.

http://secondavenuesagas.com/2014/10/05/is-the-path-extension-to-newark-airport-another-port-authority-boondoggle/

http://www.northjersey.com/news/christie-wants-answers-on-united-s-pullout-of-atlantic-city-airport-1.1130624

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/29/nyregion/call-it-coincidence-or-corruption.html?_r=0

Oh, and the catastrophe that looms if the existing tunnels need to be serviced before a new tunnel and Penn Station South is completed, which also needs a new Portal Bridge thrown in (brother can you spare $20 billion?), can't be overstated. ARC solved the massively expensive problem of no additional capacity at Penn by building the new station in it's own space. Gateway needs a an extension on Penn Station, meaning hugely more complex tunnel construction and property acquisition for the Penn Station expansion.

The sharply reduced service afforded by one track is accurate. Rail operates by far more stringent safety margins than cars, so you have to think to of separating trains by multiple train lengths as they travel. The complexities of bi-directional service through the one tube, which it isn't really set up for, adds additional time.

Going further than the article, I've said before if the tunnel has to be shut down, it will wreak havoc on the entire country's economy, and will cripple our state.

Thank you for the summary of what happened, dk50b. I wish there was a way to get the cancelled tunnel back on track asap, but unfortunately this likely means waiting to elect a new Govenor that will make this a priority. I agree that canceling this project will have have a disastrous impact on NJ if it is not corrected. Commuting in and out of NYP is already very unpleasant with crowded trains and too many delays.

Due to the poor commuting conditions, I have been toying with the idea of moving into Manhattan.

Before worrying about a tube closure, there could be a strike next week by train engineers.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2015/07/nj_transit_engineers_vote_to_strike_but_hope_for_s.html

"The last NJ Transit strike lasted 34 days in 1983."

Here's a throwback article:

http://www.nytimes.com/1983/04/04/nyregion/nj-transit-trains-are-running-again-with-strike-over.html

The Feds will never give that much to NJ again, regardless of who's in power. No state has ever refused a grant so large, that took years of herculean effort to assemble with Sen. Lautenberg leading the charge.

Gateway is all Amtrak's project, though I think the critical Portal Bridge replacement is being managed by NJT. No construction funds have been earmarked for anything as of now. Even if the funds are miraculously lined up on the Federal end, we can't participate as the bankrupt TTF means we don't have the minimum $4 billion to contribute.

I love getting NJT Transit Alert emails between 12am and 3:00am letting me know that everything's more or less ok. Will the last person to leave Penn Station please turn off the lights?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trains are now operating on/close to schedule in/out of
NY Penn with residual delays to trains already enroute.

Sent: 2:31 AM

privatecitizen said:
I love getting NJT Transit Alert emails between 12am and 3:00am letting me know that everything's more or less ok. Will the last person to leave Penn Station please turn off the lights?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trains are now operating on/close to schedule in/out of
NY Penn with residual delays to trains already enroute.

Sent: 2:31 AM

The one train that's still operating is probably going to be more or less on time on time maybe.

Don't forget the $250 million for a new PATH station in Harrison.

Interesting. I still have not been able to learn why the Gateway project somehow prohibits a revival of the ARC project. I would love to see that resumed someday.

Are we really going to argue this again on MOL? Yes we need new tunnels - new tunnels that are fully integrated with Penn Station/Moynihan Station and the NE Corridor system, and are connected with the existing infrastructure. New tunnels are a good idea. ARC was a bad idea and Christie was right to kill it, although he did for a lot of the wrong reasons. ARC would have created 2 new tunnels usable only by NJ Transit, and which would have required a new station 100+ feet under Macy's. No wonder NJ would have paid most of the cost for them and the new station.

Even the NYT article above seems to concur that the new plan is better and should move forward. The article also subtly makes the argument that this is a regional win/win, mentioning that NYC and Philly and the entire NE Corridor will benefit, so presumably NJ should not bear a disproportionately high amount of the cost. ARC was a bad idea from an engineering and funding perspective. If you dislike Christie, fine, but don't mourn that project because of your politics. What replaces it should be way better.

ARC was cancelled 5 years ago. What and where is the "way better?"