NY Giants
I'm a Jets fan. I never expected the Giants to be run as poorly as the Jets. If only they listened to McAdoo and drafted Mahomes,
I watched a lot of Giants football this season and it was very disheartening, to say the least. I think they had some very capable, competitive, if not very experienced, players. Can't say what happened.
I'm also a Mets fan so I've been getting the double whammy the past few season. The Mets also fired/hired a manager this year. I don't know if Buck Showalter can do any better but we shall see.
Hope springs eternal!
jfinnegan said:
I'm a Jets fan. I never expected the Giants to be run as poorly as the Jets. If only they listened to McAdoo and drafted Mahomes,
Even Mahomes would have flailed if he had the same offensive line as the Giants have fielded the last few years. It starts up front.
mfpark said:
Even Mahomes would have flailed if he had the same offensive line as the Giants have fielded the last few years. It starts up front.
Agreed to a certain extent. I think Mahomes would have gotten them some wins. It is all about the lines though. No point in drafting RBs and QBs early if you have nobody to block for them.
jfinnegan said:
mfpark said:
Even Mahomes would have flailed if he had the same offensive line as the Giants have fielded the last few years. It starts up front.
Agreed to a certain extent. I think Mahomes would have gotten them some wins. It is all about the lines though. No point in drafting RBs and QBs early if you have nobody to block for them.
I would even go so far as to say that poor offensive lines ruin the careers of promising pro quarterbacks all the time. I bet behind closed doors those elite QB prospects in the draft worry about getting dropped into such a soup despite their outward enthusiastic bravado.
jfinnegan said:
mfpark said:
Even Mahomes would have flailed if he had the same offensive line as the Giants have fielded the last few years. It starts up front.
Agreed to a certain extent. I think Mahomes would have gotten them some wins. It is all about the lines though. No point in drafting RBs and QBs early if you have nobody to block for them.
I’m confused. The Jets were in a spot to draft Mahomes, but the Giants would have had to trade into the top 10, right? Was McAdoo pushing to trade up that high?
I’m confused. The Jets were in a spot to draft Mahomes, but the Giants would have had to trade into the top 10, right? Was McAdoo pushing to trade up that high?
John Ross went ahead of Mahomes and the Giants have him now. Does that count???
DaveSchmidt said:
I’m confused. The Jets were in a spot to draft Mahomes, but the Giants would have had to trade into the top 10, right? Was McAdoo pushing to trade up that high?
McAdoo wanted to trade up and draft Mahomes, but the front office didn't want to.
Train_of_Thought said:
John Ross went ahead of Mahomes and the Giants have him now. Does that count???
And the Jets turned their pick that year into draft picks from the Seahawks whose careers they will ruin in short order.
jfinnegan said:
Train_of_Thought said:
John Ross went ahead of Mahomes and the Giants have him now. Does that count???
And the Jets turned their pick that year into draft picks from the Seahawks whose careers they will ruin in short order.
nonsense. The Jets have a good GM, a mature coach who will get better and they are building an OL to protect what they hope is a franchise QB. They are the youngest team in the league with a lot of picks this upcoming draft. The jets are in a good place, no players are being ruined.
jfinnegan said:
I'm a Jets fan. I never expected the Giants to be run as poorly as the Jets. If only they listened to McAdoo and drafted Mahomes,
the Giants were going to trade up to draft Mahomes but KC beat them to it.
ml1 said:
jfinnegan said:
I'm a Jets fan. I never expected the Giants to be run as poorly as the Jets. If only they listened to McAdoo and drafted Mahomes,
the Giants were going to trade up to draft Mahomes but KC beat them to it.
perhaps the second greatest trade in NFL history behind the H Walker trade. The chiefs went from 27th to 10th in a trade with the BIlls.
Redfruit said:
perhaps the second greatest trade in NFL history behind the H Walker trade. The chiefs went from 27th to 10th in a trade with the BIlls.
It was certainly not a lopsided trade--both teams came out of it pretty well. Certainly, the Chiefs got their franchise quarterback, but Mahomes was not a dead lock for being a good NFL QB coming out of college. Note that the Bears took Trubisky at number 2 that year. The Chiefs could afford to take a bit of a risk as they already had Alex Smith who was more than ok, so for them it was a good time to take this risk. The Bills had no GM in place, had a serviceable one year QB on the roster already (but not as good as Smith, btw), and decided they would prefer to wait a year so their new GM could evaluate the next crop of young arms and veteran arms. Reasonable decisions by both teams.
Meanwhile, the Bills got some good position players out of the draft, were able to package up some of those picks for other trades, and were able to take Josh Allen the next year as their own franchise QB.
As for the Giants, they did not have a chance for Mahomes without also trading up. KC had identified him as their number one target, and when no one took him in the first nine picks they executed the trade with the Bills for the number ten pick. The Giants were at number 13. I am not sure if they were unable or unwilling to make the trade up. But, I repeat, Mahomes was not considered a certainty for being a long-term starting QB in the NFL.
Here's Mahomes' draft profile. He was seen as a high-risk, high-reward guy and might have been downgraded a bit because Texas Tech's offensive system sometimes boosts QBs who aren't great NFL prospects.
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/patrick-mahomes/32004d41-4840-1939-e4c1-bb89191b4e71
And just so I can remain on topic, let it be noted that the Giants did not employ Andy Reid, who has had something to do with Mahomes’ success.
I enjoy watching Mahomes. Unfortunately the NFL has decided that most Sundays I can watch any game I like, whether it be the Jets or the Giants. What I don't understand is how so many teams are so unbalanced, and yet considered to be well coached. Andy Reid looks brilliant because he has Mahomes, but his defense is frequently so bad that they have to score 35 to win.
DanDietrich said:
Andy Reid looks brilliant because he has Mahomes, but his defense is frequently so bad that they have to score 35 to win.
Interesting (and off topic, so apologies): K.C. has had a top 10 scoring defense in seven of Reid’s nine seasons. Take away one bad No. 24 season and its average ranking is seventh.
mfpark said:
Redfruit said:
perhaps the second greatest trade in NFL history behind the H Walker trade. The chiefs went from 27th to 10th in a trade with the BIlls.
It was certainly not a lopsided trade--both teams came out of it pretty well. Certainly, the Chiefs got their franchise quarterback, but Mahomes was not a dead lock for being a good NFL QB coming out of college. Note that the Bears took Trubisky at number 2 that year. The Chiefs could afford to take a bit of a risk as they already had Alex Smith who was more than ok, so for them it was a good time to take this risk. The Bills had no GM in place, had a serviceable one year QB on the roster already (but not as good as Smith, btw), and decided they would prefer to wait a year so their new GM could evaluate the next crop of young arms and veteran arms. Reasonable decisions by both teams.
Meanwhile, the Bills got some good position players out of the draft, were able to package up some of those picks for other trades, and were able to take Josh Allen the next year as their own franchise QB.
As for the Giants, they did not have a chance for Mahomes without also trading up. KC had identified him as their number one target, and when no one took him in the first nine picks they executed the trade with the Bills for the number ten pick. The Giants were at number 13. I am not sure if they were unable or unwilling to make the trade up. But, I repeat, Mahomes was not considered a certainty for being a long-term starting QB in the NFL.
You’re right that it wasn’t a terrible trade from the Bills point of you but from the Chiefs point of view, it was the greatest trade in franchise history.
In the middle of a new GM search, who supposedly will be responsible for identifying the next coach, I see that the Giants suddenly are asking for permission to speak with Coaching candidates!!!
tomcat said:
In the middle of a new GM search, who supposedly will be responsible for identifying the next coach, I see that the Giants suddenly are asking for permission to speak with Coaching candidates!!!
teams are going to copy the approach the Mets just used, even though most fans were oblivious. The Mets used three different companies to vet candidates for problems. Maybe the Giants will start vetting 20 people to eliminate ten wife beaters and 7 racists. When they have a new GM he can interview the three candidates left.
The best trade in NY Giants history was for Eli Manning. Too bad they couldn't pull it off again with Mahomes.
I don't want the Giants to hire anyone from the Patriots or the Belichick coaching tree. Please, let's have some new fresh ideas.
LET'S GO!!!!!!!!!!
This is my 50th season attending Giants home games. After today's stunning comeback dub in Tennessee, should be a great atmosphere for the opener next Sunday vs. Carolina. I can't wait!!!!
I have to say I didn't have any faith. I didn't bother to come back to the TV for the 2nd half. Nice win.
Not much to say about the game itself, but will say it took me 3 hours to drive 15 miles to get there. I've had a gazillion nightmarish times getting out after games in my life, but this was unprecedented pre-game traffic getting in. Missed most of the 1st quarter after leaving S.O. at 5:30pm.
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When Mara finally let coach Judge go also, I went to MOL to check the comments. Not a single comment about the GIants going back for months??
I realize that they were VERY bad this year (and I have to admit, that I only watched about 1 hour of one game - which they led in the 4th quarter, but lost). But no active thread on the GIants?
At least let's comment on all the GM candidates they are going to interview over the next many months, which means that they will end up with a 2nd or 3rd tier choice.