Lost Democracy

The republicans (of which I was a member all my life until Trump) no longer support Democracy, and Facebook makes new conspiracy believers every day. Eventually we will get a Rubio or a Cruz as President, and elections will all be frauds, and we will have the Dictatorship that Trump dreamed of, and almost made.



TheJmon
said:

Theoldtimer said:

The republicans (of which I was a member all my life until Trump) no longer support Democracy, and Facebook makes new conspiracy believers every day. Eventually we will get a Rubio or a Cruz as President, and elections will all be frauds, and we will have the Dictatorship that Trump dreamed of, and almost made.

I feel your pain, man. I'm going to wait to see who chimes in on this one, but I will tell you it's not Facebook alone that is contributing. Also, it's not a 'conspiracy', but a prevalent mindset in less liberal places all over the country (and maybe even around the corner from you).

You have a hotbed topic here, but I have laundry to do.....

This was a reply when posted in the main forum.  The discussion has been removed from that section.


jamie said:

This was a reply when posted in the main forum.  The discussion has been removed from that section.

 No worries, Jamie.  I was just coming in to delete that myself and appreciate you doing it first.  Sorry.  


while all this is true, anyone who remained a Republican through the years and only abandoned the party when Trump came along bears some responsibility for all of this.  Trump is the inevitable outcome of more than three decades of disinformation and misinformation, demonization of Democrats, liberals, and "elites," that fueled white grievance politics.  All of it amplified and spread broadly through right wing media sources. And the brazen lying didn't start with Trump.  This is from the Karl Rove during the W Bush administration:

“We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”

anyone who remained a Republican through 2016 should realize their own role in creating the conditions in the country that spawned Trumpism.


The GOP has a serious problem, they can't quit Trump.  


Even after all this, and even considering it's Kevin McCarthy, i can't believe this guy is already flying down to Florida to kiss the ring.

(also, the place looks like it belongs to the shah, or one of s. hussein's sons.  Can you imagine how FDR or Eisenhower would look at the whole situation?  Leave alone Harry Truman. Ugh.)


I think people like Lisa Murkowski, Mitt Romney, etc should form their own party. I do have sympathy for the folks who are conservative on policy issues but are horrified by the current Republican party. They can't realistically become Democrats (nor is it entirely clear Democrats would want them to -- if Joe Manchin is the current right wing of the party, actual Republicans would push that wing farther out). Kill the filibuster, and this small party become pretty important, able to influence legislation more toward their own policy views as they could be realistically courted for their votes.

Third parties don't last long thanks to our single-member districts, but a conservative party that rejected Trump would either end up replacing the current Republican party or force the current Republican party away from Trumpism in order to re-absorb the anti-Trumpists.


I hate to say this, but the only reason that McCarthy and most other GOP elected officials stick with Trump is because of his base. As soon as his support within the GOP base fades away, they will drop Trump like a dog. The real problem are not the politicians, the real problem is the republican base. So you can start 3rd parties all you want, but as long as his base sticks with lunatics like him it won't make a difference. The people that voted for him, and still support him are the real villains, deplorable and all.


People like McCarthy *could* show some leadership and try to educate their constituents by telling them the truth about some things, instead of repeating and magnifying the fantasies.  


basil said:

I hate to say this, but the only reason that McCarthy and most other GOP elected officials stick with Trump is because of his base. As soon as his support within the GOP base fades away, they will drop Trump like a dog. The real problem are not the politicians, the real problem is the republican base. So you can start 3rd parties all you want, but as long as his base sticks with lunatics like him it won't make a difference. The people that voted for him, and still support him are the real villains, deplorable and all.

 



If Greene was a Democrat she would have been forced to resign already.


drummerboy said:

If Greene was a Democrat she would have been forced to resign already.

 there was a conservative dude who used to post on MOL and would constantly state that Republicans throw their own "overboard" immediately if they did something wrong, while Democrats make excuses and protect the people in their party who commit offenses. 

It was obvious projection on his part at the time, but now such a notion is completely absurd. 



Speaking of a Lost Democracy, why are the Republicans still running the show in the Senate? How come Graham can block a hearing on Merrick Garland?

Is Schumer incompetent? Is it his fault?


drummerboy said:

Speaking of a Lost Democracy, why are the Republicans still running the show in the Senate? How come Graham can block a hearing on Merrick Garland?

Is Schumer incompetent? Is it his fault?

 no. The agreement on committees wasn't completed until today so the old chair assignments from the last Congress were still in place. 


So the Dems should be in charge going forward?


ml1 said:

drummerboy said:

If Greene was a Democrat she would have been forced to resign already.

 there was a conservative dude who used to post on MOL and would constantly state that Republicans throw their own "overboard" immediately if they did something wrong, while Democrats make excuses and protect the people in their party who commit offenses. 

It was obvious projection on his part at the time, but now such a notion is completely absurd. 

 Al Franken, Marjorie Taylor Greene


cramer said:

drummerboy said:

So the Dems should be in charge going forward?

 Yes. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/03/senate-reaches-deal-on-organizing-resolution-chuck-schumer-says.html

 thanks, I was a bit late getting this piece of good news today.


basil said:

ml1 said:

drummerboy said:

If Greene was a Democrat she would have been forced to resign already.

 there was a conservative dude who used to post on MOL and would constantly state that Republicans throw their own "overboard" immediately if they did something wrong, while Democrats make excuses and protect the people in their party who commit offenses. 

It was obvious projection on his part at the time, but now such a notion is completely absurd. 

 Al Franken, Marjorie Taylor Greene

 that guy is long gone. So I think it's now OK to say he was a real dick. 


ml1 said:

basil said:

ml1 said:

drummerboy said:

If Greene was a Democrat she would have been forced to resign already.

 there was a conservative dude who used to post on MOL and would constantly state that Republicans throw their own "overboard" immediately if they did something wrong, while Democrats make excuses and protect the people in their party who commit offenses. 

It was obvious projection on his part at the time, but now such a notion is completely absurd. 

 Al Franken, Marjorie Taylor Greene

 that guy is long gone. So I think it's now OK to say he was a real dick. 

I disagree completely. I think we threw him under the bus in an attempt at purity, while the republicans were raping our country.


basil said:

ml1 said:

basil said:

ml1 said:

drummerboy said:

If Greene was a Democrat she would have been forced to resign already.

 there was a conservative dude who used to post on MOL and would constantly state that Republicans throw their own "overboard" immediately if they did something wrong, while Democrats make excuses and protect the people in their party who commit offenses. 

It was obvious projection on his part at the time, but now such a notion is completely absurd. 

 Al Franken, Marjorie Taylor Greene

 that guy is long gone. So I think it's now OK to say he was a real dick. 

I disagree completely. I think we threw him under the bus in an attempt at purity, while the republicans were raping our country.

 This is correct. Furthermore, we lost a powerful weapon when he resigned.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/07/29/the-case-of-al-franken

A remarkable number of Franken’s Senate colleagues have regrets about
their own roles in his fall. Seven current and former U.S. senators who
demanded Franken’s resignation in 2017 told me that they’d been wrong to
do so.
Such admissions are unusual in an institution whose members
rarely concede mistakes. Patrick Leahy, the veteran Democrat from
Vermont, said that his decision to seek Franken’s resignation without
first getting all the facts was “one of the biggest mistakes I’ve made”
in forty-five years in the Senate. Heidi Heitkamp, the former senator
from North Dakota, told me, “If there’s one decision I’ve made that I
would take back, it’s the decision to call for his resignation. It was
made in the heat of the moment, without concern for exactly what this
was.” Tammy Duckworth, the junior Democratic senator from Illinois, told
me that the Senate Ethics Committee “should have been allowed to move
forward.” She said it was important to acknowledge the trauma that
Franken’s accusers had gone through, but added, “We needed more facts.
That due process didn’t happen is not good for our democracy.” Angus
King, the Independent senator from Maine, said that he’d “regretted it
ever since” he joined the call for Franken’s resignation. “There’s no
excuse for sexual assault,” he said. “But Al deserved more of a process.
I don’t denigrate the allegations, but this was the political
equivalent of capital punishment.” Senator Jeff Merkley, of Oregon, told
me, “This was a rush to judgment that didn’t allow any of us to fully
explore what this was about. I took the judgment of my peers rather than
independently examining the circumstances. In my heart, I’ve not felt
right about it.” Bill Nelson, the former Florida senator, said, “I
realized almost right away I’d made a mistake. I felt terrible. I should
have stood up for due process to render what it’s supposed to—the
truth.” Tom Udall, the senior Democratic senator from New Mexico, said,
“I made a mistake. I started having second thoughts shortly after he
stepped down. He had the right to be heard by an independent
investigative body. I’ve heard from people around my state, and around
the country, saying that they think he got railroaded. It doesn’t seem
fair. I’m a lawyer. I really believe in due process.”


basil said:

ml1 said:

basil said:

ml1 said:

drummerboy said:

If Greene was a Democrat she would have been forced to resign already.

 there was a conservative dude who used to post on MOL and would constantly state that Republicans throw their own "overboard" immediately if they did something wrong, while Democrats make excuses and protect the people in their party who commit offenses. 

It was obvious projection on his part at the time, but now such a notion is completely absurd. 

 Al Franken, Marjorie Taylor Greene

 that guy is long gone. So I think it's now OK to say he was a real dick. 

I disagree completely. I think we threw him under the bus in an attempt at purity, while the republicans were raping our country.

 sorry, I meant the MOL guy, not Franken.


ml1 said:

basil said:

ml1 said:

basil said:

ml1 said:

drummerboy said:

If Greene was a Democrat she would have been forced to resign already.

 there was a conservative dude who used to post on MOL and would constantly state that Republicans throw their own "overboard" immediately if they did something wrong, while Democrats make excuses and protect the people in their party who commit offenses. 

It was obvious projection on his part at the time, but now such a notion is completely absurd. 

 Al Franken, Marjorie Taylor Greene

 that guy is long gone. So I think it's now OK to say he was a real dick. 

I disagree completely. I think we threw him under the bus in an attempt at purity, while the republicans were raping our country.

 sorry, I meant the MOL guy, not Franken.

 oopsie


drummerboy said:

ml1 said:

basil said:

ml1 said:

basil said:

ml1 said:

drummerboy said:

If Greene was a Democrat she would have been forced to resign already.

 there was a conservative dude who used to post on MOL and would constantly state that Republicans throw their own "overboard" immediately if they did something wrong, while Democrats make excuses and protect the people in their party who commit offenses. 

It was obvious projection on his part at the time, but now such a notion is completely absurd. 

 Al Franken, Marjorie Taylor Greene

 that guy is long gone. So I think it's now OK to say he was a real dick. 

I disagree completely. I think we threw him under the bus in an attempt at purity, while the republicans were raping our country.

 sorry, I meant the MOL guy, not Franken.

 oopsie

 I realize now that it was bad writing on my part.


Did anyone see McCarthy speaking after the big meeting last night? He actually pretended not to know how to pronounce Qanon and said he had no idea what it was.

I guess pretending to be a stupid dumb-**** is what gets you votes among the R's.

That wasn't as good as Tuberville's excuse. He said because of the snowstorm he hadn't been able to read any of the news, so he didn't know what was going on with Greene.


McCarthy is falling back on whatabouting.  

“While Democrats pursue a resolution on Congresswoman Greene, they continue to do nothing about Democrats serving on the Foreign Affairs Committee who have spread anti-Semitic tropes, Democrats on the House Intelligence and Homeland Security Committee compromised by Chinese spies, or the Chairwoman of the House Financial Services Committee who advocated for violence against public servants."

Leader McCarthy's Statement on Rep. Taylor Greene - House Republican Leader


I have no illusions about McConnell or McCarthy, but it is interesting to see that they take very different positions on where the GOP needs to go. McCarthy wants to run to Trump and QAnon, and McConnell wants to run away from it.


basil said:

I have no illusions about McConnell or McCarthy, but it is interesting to see that they take very different positions on where the GOP needs to go. McCarthy wants to run to Trump and QAnon, and McConnell wants to run away from it.

Not surprising.

McConnell is late in his career, and has "got his"; he's more concerned with his legacy now.

McCarthy is still scrabbling for a bigger piece of the pie, and has decided to "follow the money", as have most of the GQP.



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