Lazy 21 year old

My 21 year old is being a major pain. I’ll try not to waffle on! I am truly a single mom. My ex’s response to any problems is yelling and breaking things. My son spent part of last year lying about going to community college, to avoid being getting yelled at. He has a PT job and was supposedly paying for it. Needless to say I found out. I told Ihim he had to find a fulltime job. He also was interested in glass blowing. So we compromised and he was going to work close to FT and pursue glass thing.So we’re back to square 1

He’s lying about work and doesn’t seem to be doing much of that either. Several of my friends have said I should throw him out. Someone have any advice PLEASE

you can't throw him out, if he refuses to leave, you have to evict.  print out the story of the guy I think from NY who was evicted...and leave it on his bed.

I don’t think it will come to that. I’m concerned about where he would. I’m so tIred of crying about it.

Investigate depression.  He may be overwhelmed about the challenge of school, situation with his father and whatever else.

Formerlyjerseyjack said:
Investigate depression.  He may be overwhelmed about the challenge of school, situation with his father and whatever else.

I agree with this. Get family counseling,  and, if possible, individual as well (with a good therapist who will talk about past experiences and behavior). You need to be supportive but establish some limits as well. 

Formerlyjerseyjack said:
Investigate depression.  He may be overwhelmed about the challenge of school, situation with his father and whatever else.

I'd be careful about suggesting the word depression to him - but I do encourage him going to see a therapist. And since you're living together, some family counseling might be appropriate too. Just to facilitate communications about what you're expectations are of him now that he's an adult.

It's easy to think that a tough-love, sink or swim approach might work, but this ain't the movies.  

Sounds like he's working. Is he contributing to household expenses and to household chores? Does he pay for his own phone, for example? Car insurance? Is he saving any money? As long as he's working, he should be doing those things to the extent that he can.

Some kids are just raring to leave their parents at his age. Others, not so much. I don't think we make it very fair for our children to expect everyone to work on the same schedule.  He needs help to do so. We don't all come out of the same cookie cutter. 

Thank you so much! He’s 21 isn’t he mature enough to be able to have a life plan or goals??

problem with family counseling, is you can't force him.  sure the parent can go on their own to get pro advice and make it a condition of the privilege of living in the parents home...but unless you are prepared to evict if he doesn't comply, its hard to force it.

you can try rewarding him for adult behavior, but at his age he would want expensive rewards...if you still cook, do laundry for him, you could withdraw those privileges until he earns them.

many middle age people still can't act adult.  a lot of people graduate college and have no clue what career they want..and still just want to be free spirits.

Pamsp said:
Thank you so much! He’s 21 isn’t he mature enough to be able to have a life plan or goals??

Not based on what you have written.  I agree with those who have posted above that there are underlying issues that need to be identified and addressed.  The person you describe needs to find something to pull himself out of his funk.  You can lead him in what you hope is the right direction.  You can help him develop the tools he will need to do so.  In the end, this is something he will have to do for himself.  

drummerboy said:

Formerlyjerseyjack said:
Investigate depression.  He may be overwhelmed about the challenge of school, situation with his father and whatever else.

I'd be careful about suggesting the word depression to him -

 Depending on your present level of communication, it might be possible to talk about depressive feelings without mentioning the word. It is pretty likely that he isn't much happy about how his life is going. What would "taking a few steps backward" to figure out a plan to go forward?

Also, have you considered if drugs are part of the situation?

Who are his friends? What are their lives like?

Pamsp said:
Thank you so much! He’s 21 isn’t he mature enough to be able to have a life plan or goals??

 I have sent you a PM

Pamsp said:
Thank you so much! He’s 21 isn’t he mature enough to be able to have a life plan or goals??

Only if he was raised from an early age to prepare to go out into the world by age 18. Some kids need more guidance than others, but I doubt any kid wakes up and is just ready to leave the nest at 18-21. Maybe use this time to guide him to move to the next phase. That may include counseling, tough love, some compassion, some direction, etc. In my house we all left at 21. I needed only one college semester of help. My sister is 34 and is still being helped by the family.  Set goals, guide towards reaching them, be firm, be kind, get help, once they’re out hopefully they’re out for good. Good Luck. 

Sympathy for what you're experiencing. I was out of the house by 17 except for holiday visits, and expected the same. I worked diligently to encourage and reward independence. One son was on his own and asking to cover utilities and phone bills at 19; another took quite a bit longer after overcoming some significant hurdles. Neither is remotely lazy, but I think they would both tell you that they are familiar with the feeling of being stuck.

Above all, trust that this feels worse to him that it does to you, and that it will end -- just not on anybody else's schedule. Enforce house rules and look for opportunities to require participation and responsibility.

j_r said:
Above all, trust that this feels worse to him that it does to you

I’m curious what brings you to this conclusion.  Seems to me that if true this would be motivation to start getting things together.  

That he's showing interest in glass blowing is a positive thing. Encourage that path and see where it leads. The money made from his job could help fund this learning experience. Incremental improvement in his situation will lead to good things. 

Red_Barchetta said:

j_r said:
Above all, trust that this feels worse to him that it does to you

I’m curious what brings you to this conclusion.  Seems to me that if true this would be motivation to start getting things together.  
 

 That's very easy to say from the outside looking in...

Red_Barchetta said:

j_r said:
Above all, trust that this feels worse to him that it does to you

I’m curious what brings you to this conclusion.  Seems to me that if true this would be motivation to start getting things together.  
 

 There is a feeling, "Helpless - hopeless" that people can get into. It corresponds with depression. It comes when a person can't think of a way out of what situation they are in.

badscooter said:

Red_Barchetta said:

j_r said:
Above all, trust that this feels worse to him that it does to you

I’m curious what brings you to this conclusion.  Seems to me that if true this would be motivation to start getting things together.  
 

 That's very easy to say from the outside looking in...

Formerlyjerseyjack said:

Red_Barchetta said:

j_r said:
Above all, trust that this feels worse to him that it does to you

I’m curious what brings you to this conclusion.  Seems to me that if true this would be motivation to start getting things together.  
 

 There is a feeling, "Helpless - hopeless" that people can get into. It corresponds with depression. It comes when a person can't think of a way out of what situation they are in.

 Understood on both fronts.  I guess what I’m saying is the root of the problem needs to be found.  Is is depression? Is it entitlement?  As others have said sounds like counseling is the place to start.  

Pamsp said:
Thank you so much! He’s 21 isn’t he mature enough to be able to have a life plan or goals??

 uh,....no. When I was 21 all I wanted was my own apartment and that I got. But that was the only goal. I did it....with a full time job and 3 roommates....but that was my only goal. I also had some financial support from my parents bc at 21, the salary for most entry level jobs isn't enough. Does he even want to leave? Does he want to be on his own? Or, does he want to stay with you? If he wants to live on his own, he may need a financial boost from you. Its different now then it was in the 80s...the cost of living is way too high to do it on a pittance of a salary without any help. As much as we would love to think that grown kids can just make it on their own...its really not financially realistic. 

Just sayin' 

Glass blowing is a great hobby...I vote for encouraging it and continuing to give as a gift. 

Today's 21 isn't the same as the 80's 21.  I was out at 18, married at 19, started my career at 19, and had my first son at 21.  So naturally I expected my sons to be working full time and looking for a career at 18 if they weren't going to school.  My wife had to convince me that times are different now.  

My oldest who is 28 is now a police officer for about 3 years and married for just about the same amount of time.  Before that he was in the service.  But between 18-21 I thought he was never going to leave the crappy job he had and it drove me nuts because he seemed content with just doing that.

My youngest who is 22 tried school for a couple of years but decided it wasn't for him.  So he got a job until he was laid off.  Then he just sat around the house talking about being an inventor.  I told him that wouldn't pay his bills until he actually invented something.  We had many of arguments over this and I ended up with him no longer wanting to share many details of his plans or goals.  Then one day he took a full time job that he liked and now works 7 days a week and sometimes double shifts.  He talks about starting his own business in this field.  He still talks about being an inventor but he now realises he needs to make money first.  

I guess what I am trying to say is that if your son is a normal child without any issues, he will figure it all out in time.  You just have to nudge him a little and give him a chance to figure life out.  It will continue to drive you nuts until then.... but that's what kids do.

 Understood on both fronts.  I guess what I’m saying is the root of the problem needs to be found.  Is is depression? Is it entitlement?  As others have said sounds like counseling is the place to start.  

It might be neither. Goal-directed behavior may not become evident in some adolescents until after 21. It's a function of development, not the result of laziness or a sense of entitlement.

the last think I’d want my 21 year old doing is settling down,getting married and having kids! Way too young. Heck 25 is way too young for that. 

I am beginning to think this is generational myself. That the motivated, directed kids are more the anomaly in this day and age. We have a super “lazy” one too. He barely goes to college and puts forth little effort there. Won’t find a job (had one for 18 months but now just refuses to look) although he does babysit his siblings in exchange for “rent”. I don’t know how a person could be content to not work at all at 19. To me, the social aspect of that was critical. But social media creating a “friend base” in your bedroom coupled with a staggering rate of depression and anxiety, throw in a little marijuana and and this is what you get. It’s heartbreaking really. I was always so excited for life- college, moving out, getting an apartment, starting a career, even just getting a job.

so what happens when I kick him out? 

his dad and a few other acquaintances have told me this is the best thing to do.

before kicking him out, set some ground rules and let him know if he doesn't agree to the rules, he needs to get his own place.  list more things than you actually want, be prepared to negotiate.

for example, a list of chores, requiring counseling, tell him he needs to start  paying rent..600/month for housing/utilities or 800 to include food.

be prepared to reduce or eliminate chores, and take a a lower rent...or maybe even no rent...require him to show proof of employment (pay stubs).

I don't know much about this glass blowing and if it can be a career..i would guess jobs are limited, but he could make and sell art....but many people have full time jobs and hobbies

have you considered the idea of going to a counselor yourself to get insight into your options.  if he is not into illegal activity, its not so bad.

what is he doing for health insurance?  is he on your plan?  is there a premium?  make him responsible for all his own expenses.

without knowing all the details (which I wouldn't expect you to broadcasting) people on here can only give you various options.

in this area, a good room for rent (with utilities) averages 150/week.  he will have to rent a room and pay his way.  keep the invitation open for him to return home if he is willing to live by your rules.

realize if you are going to make changes, he actually has 'tenant rights' even though it sounds like he is not paying rent.  I have never been able to find good info on room tenants v apartment tenants, but generally he would be legally entitled to notice to any changes in his tenancy (may be 1 full month).  so the new rules would not take into effect until Nov 1.

You can also do things like change the password on the wifi/disconnect TV service..and restore when he deserves it...if he likes home cooked meals, reward him with favorite dinners for acting like an adult.  you can put a lock on the fridge, store non perishables in your room...and lock your door...if he wants a fridge to use, he gets a mini fridge with his own money.

Before kicking him out make sure he has the resources:  mental and financial to survive on his own.  Charging a rent he can afford and making him responsible for chores he would have to perform for himself would make for a good transition.

Has he been to the Corning Museum?  Well worth the trip to give him an idea of what glassblowers can accomplish.  See if there is a local program where he can explore glassblowing to see if this is something he really wants to do and help him develop the skills he will need to do it.

https://www.glassroots.org/

A nonprofit in Newark, fwiw.  Very best wishes to you and your son.

@Pamsp, kicking your son out is an extreme measure and not your only option. It comes with significant personal and legal consequences. Endless efforts to negotiate the small stuff like food or wifi or rent are likely to be fruitless and counterproductive. (You probably already know that.)

You might find that short-term CBT to identify other strategies is helpful. Summit Medical Group has a behavioral health unit with terrific resources.

With all respect to @joan_crystal, you are not responsible for making sure that a functional 21YO adult has resources. (But I do like her idea for a visit to the Corning museum!)

Pamsp said:
his dad and a few other acquaintances have told me this is the best thing to do.

 Please don't do this.  It does not end well.  Get some professional help and work out a collaborative plan.  

agreed. You can’t kick out a person with no life skills. What will he do? Try to make some rules. Try to help him differently but don’t back him into a corner. My ahole BIL tries to get us to do this to his 19 yr old- the one he abandoned and left with no life skills and crippling depression. He likes to talk about how he was kicked out and self sufficient from 18.  Well, that self sufficiency meant no education, jobs where you bust your *** for low salary, always living hand to mouth. Sounds great.