Kirsten Gillibrand -2020
How about the "Un-Gillibrand"?
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/08/kamala-harris-2020-election-california-443248
I am not sure she could win a national election but clearly that is what she is aiming for.
I would not vote for her in the primary.
not a huge fan. She’s fine but she’d be a pretty blah candidate.
another "centrist" Democrat. And her grandstanding on the Al Franken accusations didn't make me feel positive toward her.
One of the few candidates that I'm pretty sure Trump could beat.
No thanks.
She's a really good senator but I agree about the Al Franken moments. I'd rather see Amy Kobuchar of Minnesota get national play, perhaps as VP on a Joe Biden ticket. Kamala Harris is very good too, with a better voice than Gillibrand (and that does matter--always thought part of HRC's problem was how grating her voice often was--almost as bad as Trump's), but the Democrats need to find some literal middle ground, and you don't get much more middle than Minnesota unless you go slightly south to the bright red Plains states. Biden, while a bit old, is not that much older than Trump, and so much kinder, smarter, more aware, and everything else. I think he could reach out to the middle too. The Republicans are painting themselves into a right-wing corner, but I think less the Democrats broaden their appeal beyond the committed left, a lot of middle-view voters will simply not turn out.
apple44 said:
White female Senator from New York - what could go wrong?
Are those things relevant?
If the current Governor of Massachusetts was being talked about as a candidate would you reference Mitt Romney?
grayhill2 said:
She's a really good senator but I agree about the Al Franken moments.
What has she done as senator to be applauded as "really good?"
Almost everything is relevant. Many folks don't vote on issues, just on their own perceptions and biases.
Mitt Romney didn't lose to a reality tv guy, he lost to a popular incumbent. Many Dems are still stunned that Hillary lost, and may be resistant to back someone who seems/looks like her, fairly or not.
LOST said:
apple44 said:
White female Senator from New York - what could go wrong?
Are those things relevant?
If the current Governor of Massachusetts was being talked about as a candidate would you reference Mitt Romney?
I was turned off by her stance on Franken but I'm not bothered by a centrist. The parties are so far apart that the image of both is an unwillingness to compromise. I've given up trying to analyze why Hillary lost. I didn't see it coming and I was on MOL election night prepared to celebrate. I haven't seen enough of Gillibrand to get a real sense of her. Recently there was coverage of her history on cable news. She seemed more rural than urban, with religious leanings and that hunting background which is foreign to me.
As for grayhill2's suggestion of Biden, I have to admit that the guy charms me. There is an air of a Frank Capra hero about him.
I like the idea of a Biden/Harris ticket. She has my attention. Maybe Kobuchar is too similar to Biden in appeal. I think Kamala Harris has a sharpness that would be a nice contrast to Biden.
As for Dems that simply appeal to me, I love Sherrod Brown, Cory Booker, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren and Chuck Schumer.
I like Adam Schiff, Joaquin Castro, what ever happened to Gavin Newsome.
I am more familiar with senators and congressmen but one of my friends argues that a governor is a stronger choice. The only one that comes to mind is Jerry Brown but he swears he is not running.
Not sure if there is a mix and match in the list but they are the ones I am watching.
Gillibrand represents her statewide constituents well, for example the dairy industry, which is important to NYState (even the Hudson Valley, not just the more purely rural and as you may know really economically depressed upstate areas). I find her an interesting balance to the senior senator, though I suspect she is no less ambitious. The Franken mania, however, is probably not going to weather well in the face of significant abuses by other public figures.
At this point, I think it is futile and counterproductive to argue over personalities, most of whom have some political and philosophical virtues as well as weaknesses. Democrats need to find a way to get a congressional majority and then elect a sane and efficient president, and I don't think progressive purity alone is going to do it. There will have to be a gathering of more diverse viewpoints, including moderates.
the problem with "centrist" Democrats isn't an unwillingness to compromise. It's more a tendency to not stand for much of anything at all.
Morganna said:
I was turned off by her stance on Franken but I'm not bothered by a centrist.
ml1 said:
the problem with "centrist" Democrats isn't an unwillingness to compromise. It's more a tendency to not stand for much of anything at all.
Morganna said:
I was turned off by her stance on Franken but I'm not bothered by a centrist.
I'm not saying a centrist is unwilling to compromise, I'm saying the parties have become so far apart that they, on the extreme left or right appear as if they are unwilling to compromise, so a centrist would be a compromise.
ml1 said:
it's not a compromise if the centrist doesn't stand for anything.
I believe a centrist can stand for something. Is there a politician that you consider centrist that you feel stands for nothing?
My definition of a centrist is someone who might have liberal social values but be fiscally conservative.
Or someone who has conservative social values but might have more liberal economic policies. A politician like Joe Manchin from West Virginia represents people with a very different experience than someone like me who grew up in the city. So he might not be as liberal. But if I want to see a Democrat beat that guy in the Oval Office, I don't want to risk backing a candidate who only represents me.
I think we are molded by our experiences, friends and family. They rarely turn out purists.
I'd give one example as a centrist politician who throws the principle of due process out the window so she can grandstand and force her Democratic colleague to resign before there's an investigation of the accusations.
ml1 said:
I'd give one example as a centrist politician who throws the principle of due process out the window so she can grandstand and force her Democratic colleague to resign before there's an investigation of the accusations.
I'd agree that she is an opportunist. But she actually pushed the party away from a moderate or centrist position. Nancy Pelosi, no matter what you think of her took a moderate stance initially and then Gillibrand took a more extreme stand motivated partially by the Roy Moore fiasco and probably by ambition.
As I've stated on this and other threads I was disgusted by the reaction and lack of due process. I felt he was one of the best on the floor. I watched him in action and felt it was a horrible loss for the party.
One of the few who stood up for Franken and said he should not have resigned was Joe Manchin.
Morganna said:
.... Gillibrand took a more extreme stand motivated partially by the Roy Moore fiasco and probably by ambition.
---also motivated by the Russian trolls who egged on the whole thing.
I certainly won't vote for her in a primary and in any case, won't give a dime to her campaign.
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
Morganna said:
.... Gillibrand took a more extreme stand motivated partially by the Roy Moore fiasco and probably by ambition.
---also motivated by the Russian trolls who egged on the whole thing.
I certainly won't vote for her in a primary and in any case, won't give a dime to her campaign.
I have put out Sherrod Brown's name on this board for a year or so and I thought someone might add their opinion. To my surprise Chris Hayes is on Morning Joe talking about his new book, and happens to mention Sherrod Brown and his qualities and mentioned that he has gone relatively unnoticed nationally.
Just suggesting people take a look at him as a future candidate. Another Dem with a Frank Capra hero quality, my favorite comparison.
Sherrod Brown is a good suggestion. However, he was on the "wrong side" in the opinion of the Hillary haters. That's probably why he's not on their list and Tulsi Gabbard is.
"Sanders is also mad at some people who helped Clinton win, including Ohio's Sherrod Brown.
Brown, like Sanders, is a progressive in the U.S. Senate. They have been allies. And Sanders apparently felt betrayed by Brown's decision to back Clinton before Ohio's primary,"
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2016/06/sen_sherrod_brown_still_likes.html
They were discussing Sherrod Brown on MSNBC this am as a "Progressive" who remains very popular in a increasingly "Red leaning" State by emphasizing "bred and butter" issues while supporting "Progressive" positions on social issues as well.
More on the subject:
9. Ohio Sen. Sherrod Brown (Previous: 10)
On this list, Brown provides the most complete blend of progressive politics, populism, white working-class appeal, and coming from a vital swing state. That should never be discounted.
LOST said:
More on the subject:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/12/22/the-top-15-democratic-presidential-candidates-for-2020-ranked/?utm_term=.28dea231077e
9. Ohio Sen. Sherrod Brown (Previous: 10)
On this list, Brown provides the most complete blend of progressive politics, populism, white working-class appeal, and coming from a vital swing state. That should never be discounted.
hard to take that list seriously when it includes 3 people who will be almost 80 years old by 2020, and three celebrities.
One guy I'd like to see run is Gavin Newsom, but he's running for CA governor this year, and he won't be in office long enough to run in 2020 if he wins. One thing I like about him is that he was the first elected official to back same-sex marriage. And what I like about it was, he did it when it was not popular among even Democratic politicians, back in 2004. How often do politicians take a position that is only narrowly popular among a minority of their constituents, just because they think it's the right thing to do? Almost none.
http://www.latimes.com/local/politics/la-me-pol-gavin-newsom-gay-marriage-20150626-story.html
ml1 said:
LOST said:
More on the subject:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/12/22/the-top-15-democratic-presidential-candidates-for-2020-ranked/?utm_term=.28dea231077e
9. Ohio Sen. Sherrod Brown (Previous: 10)
On this list, Brown provides the most complete blend of progressive politics, populism, white working-class appeal, and coming from a vital swing state. That should never be discounted.
hard to take that list seriously when it includes 3 people who will be almost 80 years old by 2020, and three celebrities.
One guy I'd like to see run is Gavin Newsom, but he's running for CA governor this year, and he won't be in office long enough to run in 2020 if he wins. One thing I like about him is that he was the first elected official to back same-sex marriage. And what I like about it was, he did it when it was not popular among even Democratic politicians, back in 2004. How often do politicians take a position that is only narrowly popular among a minority of their constituents, just because they think it's the right thing to do? Almost none.
http://www.latimes.com/local/politics/la-me-pol-gavin-newsom-gay-marriage-20150626-story.html
He was on my list above.
LOST said:
They were discussing Sherrod Brown on MSNBC this am as a "Progressive" who remains very popular in a increasingly "Red leaning" State by emphasizing "bred and butter" issues while supporting "Progressive" positions on social issues as well.
Right, it was Chris Hayes who brought him up. I think he's a contender.
ml1 said:
yes, you asked whatever happened to him. He's running for governor in CA. It would be an extreme long shot for him to turn around and immediately start running for president.
Morganna said:
ml1 said:
Gavin Newsom
He was on my list above.
So is there anyone on that list that appeals to you as either President or VP? I'm also ruling out all celebrities just because. Age may be a factor but love concurs all. I have a pal who likes Cuomo. A few of my picks are on there.
I do have interest in a couple who are not on there that are less well known. Probably more VP candidates. Joaquin Castro, also watching his brother Julian, (Texas )and Adam Schiff, very outspoken top Dem on the Intelligence Committee (California) Eric Swalwell (California)
All are smart and soft spoken so maybe I'm reacting to the loud mouth buffoonery we are forced to endure.
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What do people think?
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/08/gillibrand-texas-democratic-primary-445454?lo=ap_f1