Is this woman a dangerous moron?

https://patch.com/new-jersey/belleville/belleville-councilwoman-fights-new-jersey-vaccination-bill?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=blasts&utm_content=newjersey&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR3xhKXjgki94i0gwaU-uHWxf93Ao27b7vBNFY_UxVtuNFX26r15eY6WC-Q

ayup to both

She used to be a teacher

problem is most docs are dangerous morons.  in my experience they are wrong 80% of the time.  supposedly hep b can't be spread by the contact children engage in...yet it is required..

Per NJ immunization regulations, the three-dose hepatitis B series is not required until a child enters kindergarten. By kindergarten entry, a child must enter school with three doses of hepatitis B vaccine.

while i do agree that vaccines are needed, the schedule created by docs and politicians can't be trusted.

jmitw said:
in my experience they are wrong 80% of the time. 

 One wonders what that experience might be.  Have you studied medicine?

Seriously, given the extraordinary potential for damage that the pro disease lobby invites, these claims really do require extraordinary evidence.

Klinker said:

jmitw said:
in my experience they are wrong 80% of the time. 

 One wonders what that experience might be.  Have you studied medicine?

 actually, yes i have and continue to study medicine....

example 1, went to 4 docs over 2 years with foot pain.  they just kept x raying and saying they didn't see a fracture.  the 4th put the x ray up in front on me and I pointed out the deformity.

example 2, I tested positive for hypothyroid and also had a related blood test that was off...doc blew it off and said i wasn't hypothyroid...i ended up housebound for 6 months, struggling to get out of bed to bathe a couple times per week and sleeping through meals.....I finally proved it was hypothyroid with research...2.5 weeks after starting medication I could suddenly function

example 3, i had a serious brain injury....could not see straight, couldn't even eat solid food, had difficulty controlling my arms and legs...docs insisted I was fine and could even drive..i alleged pro said I couldn't possibly be experience the symptoms (of TBI) unless I had a stroke or MS...stroke is an acquired brain injury, they can both have similar symptoms.

example 4, my knee was injured years ago, i felt something pop...spent about 10 years trying to get treatment.  1 doc says its osteo arthritis, next says it isn't, next says it is, next says it isn't.

example 5, injured my arm about 6.5 years ago.  went to urgent care...i already have narcotics that I use a few times per year..but alleged pro assumed I was just drug seeking and blew me off...I am still in pain.....but don't see the point in going to another doctor as long as I can use my arm.

example 6, was seriously ill, had been to the ER for excessive vomiting dehydration, pulse racing about 160-180 weeks after that, severe pain to the point I couldn't lay in bed...docs spent a couple telling me I was fine and to stay active, but if I felt that bad, I could sedate myself around the clock..which I did at first until I good tolerate being away during the day....finally they realized I had mono...even if they couldn't id it right away...they should have tried.  the sedatives eventually caused the seizure which caused the head injury.

docs have never been able to think for themselves and appropriately prescribe narcotics, 20 years ago, many were handing them out like candy, even for minor pain, now many won't even prescribe for severe pain.

also, I worked with children with developmental disabilities...about 80% of the time, the docs blew the parents off when they raised concerns about developmental milestones..kids with clearly significant delays who ended up diagnosed with autism, intellectual disability, or other conditions.

a real winner was the obgyn that did not know what cerebral palsy was....but was going to marches protesting high malpractice rates....CP is a reason why obgyns have high rates..because when they screw up, the baby can have cp....how can an obstetrician not know that a risk of a birth gone wrong is cp?

and there are many other examples, of docs who don't seem to have a clue.

my last 2 PCPs couldn't even write common prescriptions correctly.  one got the name of the drug wrong and the other one switched directions for the 2 drugs.  one was supposed to be 1x/day the other as needed...but he wrote the opposite..

and lets talk mental health...i had a friend who is severely mentally ill, each new doc or hospital would give a different diagnosis.  many spend 15-30 minutes with her.  they just do basic internet check lists, but never interpret the results like they are supposed to (next step is not better accounted for by another condition).  How can they all be right when there are 5 completely different diagnoses?  one place almost killed her by mixing meds with a well known interaction (she had been on an MAOI...I knew you couldn't mix drugs with that because the tylenol bottle said so...but those pros were clueless)...

I don't have time to go on.....

I don't believe one word of the above post.

Well, ok, maybe some of the words.

jmitw said:
problem is most docs are dangerous morons.  in my experience they are wrong 80% of the time.  supposedly hep b can't be spread by the contact children engage in...yet it is required..
Per NJ immunization regulations, the three-dose hepatitis B series is not required until a child enters kindergarten. By kindergarten entry, a child must enter school with three doses of hepatitis B vaccine.

while i do agree that vaccines are needed, the schedule created by docs and politicians can't be trusted.

 Yeah, that’s got to be right. Doctors are wrong 80% of the time. Lol

The thing that gets me is, if you agree with 69 vaccines for your child, why are you so mad at people who refuse to vaccinate? You're protected right? 

Jaytee said:
The thing that gets me is, if you agree with 69 vaccines for your child, why are you so mad at people who refuse to vaccinate? You're protected right? 

No.

Some people can't tolerate the vaccine.

The vaccinations are not 100% effective. 

So there are people who are not immune.

You need to have a large enough percentage of the population immune to disease to prevent and control outbreaks. The more people who refuse to vaccinate their children the higher the risk to those in the population who are not immune. Many of whom don't know unless they get an immunity panel blood test.

Jaytee said:
The thing that gets me is, if you agree with 69 vaccines for your child, why are you so mad at people who refuse to vaccinate? You're protected right? 

Is this a serious question? Do you really not understand why it is important for everyone to vaccinate? 

jmitw said:
problem is most docs are dangerous morons.  

 Actually, that is not the problem. This is not about doctors. 

The problem is that too many people don't understand (or believe) the science.

The science is clear -vaccines save lives. 

The science is clear - vaccines are safe. 

The science is clear  vaccines do not cause autism. 

The problem is that too many people do not believe/understand science. Let the defunding of public education critiques begin (I would agree with them!)

Jaytee said:
The thing that gets me is, if you agree with 69 vaccines for your child, why are you so mad at people who refuse to vaccinate? You're protected right? 

Herd Immunity

Joy??

Jaytee said:
The thing that gets me is, if you agree with 69 vaccines for your child, why are you so mad at people who refuse to vaccinate? You're protected right? 

 I don't for a minute believe that this is a serious question.

conandrob240 said:

jmitw said:
problem is most docs are dangerous morons.  in my experience they are wrong 80% of the time.  supposedly hep b can't be spread by the contact children engage in...yet it is required..
Per NJ immunization regulations, the three-dose hepatitis B series is not required until a child enters kindergarten. By kindergarten entry, a child must enter school with three doses of hepatitis B vaccine.

while i do agree that vaccines are needed, the schedule created by docs and politicians can't be trusted.

 Yeah, that’s got to be right. Doctors are wrong 80% of the time. Lol

 YOU THINK IT IS SO DAMN FUNNY...TRY SPENDING A DAY IN MY SHOES...MY LIFE IS IN DANGER BECAUSE OF PEOPLE WITH ATTITUDES LIKE YOURS.....

ONE OF MY ABUSERS IS IN NEED OF A KIDNEY TRANSPLANT..GUESS WHO HE'S NOT GETTING IT FROM.......I CAN ONLY HOPE THAT SOME DAY ONE OF THE PEOPLE YOU TREAT LIKE CRAP IS THE ONE THAT CAN SAVE YOUR LIFE...BUT CHOOSES NOT TO

LOL

the science is not clear...there has been a lot of science behind a lot of bad medicine....science manipulated by drug companies and their lobbies.

for example, how do you explain the science behind forcing hep b vaccine on 4-5 year olds who should never be exposed to it?

there is some legitimate concern about the large number of vaccines over a short amount of time...yet science won't acknowledge that

Um, okay. If you don’t want to give me a kidney because I called you out for posting that 80% of doctors misdiagnose people being pretty reckless and ridiculous, then okay. I won’t ask you for a kidney. 

Clearly you’ve had some bad experiences and I’m sorry for you but I’m also guessing that maybe the string of misdiagnoses stems from something other than doctor error

I got all of my shots and so did my son, and these disease breakouts are scary, but I don't think we should be forcing people to get vaccinations. That's really a personal decision, related to our bodies.  We can try to use logic and reason to convince them, but I don't think it benefits any of us to force inoculations.  It sets a bad precedent.  

We should be skeptical about anything from for-profit drug companies.  It is not inconceivable that some time in the future they could come up with an unsafe vaccination and force us all to give it to our kids or selves by law, making us all the guinea pigs. With increased deregulation, who knows what situations might develop. It might seem like a good idea now when there is a chicken pox breakout, but not so great in 5 years if they decide they have something for colds and we all have to take it based on the same law.

And I do agree that doctors are not always experts on how to treat diseases.  If you have anything wrong that is a bit odd or unusual, you can often be a better expert than the doctor on that and you need to be strong self-advocate. I belong to a Facebook group for a chronic pain condition (I have a mild form) and everyday I read horror stories about ignorant doctors who don't know what they are talking about, swearing that the patients cannot have the symptoms they have, and not knowing the correct tools to diagnose.

Also, how are they going to enforce that? Are the police going to go people's houses and drag out kids?  Are parents going to loose custody of their own children?  This might be a slippery slope. 

Also, I think they should not have such a rigid time line for so many vaccinations.  Some children, especially those born prematurely might need to wait a bit before getting so many shots.  My child's first pediatrician believed this and she had big concerns about that and discussed it with me. I would hate to see a law with a strict compliance schedule. 

Anyway, I understand the problems with these disease breakouts, but I'm still uncomfortable with forcing people to get vaccinations.

nan said:
I got all of my shots and so did my son, and these disease breakouts are scary, but I don't think we should be forcing people to get vaccinations. That's really a personal decision, related to our bodies.  We can try to use logic and reason to convince them, but I don't think it benefits any of us to force inoculations.  It sets a bad precedent.  
We should be skeptical about anything from for-profit drug companies.  It is not inconceivable that some time in the future they could come up with an unsafe vaccination and force us all to give it to our kids or selves by law, making us all the guinea pigs. With increased deregulation, who knows what situations might develop. It might seem like a good idea now when there is a chicken pox breakout, but not so great in 5 years if they decide they have something for colds and we all have to take it based on the same law.
And I do agree that doctors are not always experts on how to treat diseases.  If you have anything wrong that is a bit odd or unusual, you can often be a better expert than the doctor on that and you need to be strong self-advocate. I belong to a Facebook group for a chronic pain condition (I have a mild form) and everyday I read horror stories about ignorant doctors who don't know what they are talking about, swearing that the patients cannot have the symptoms they have, and not knowing the correct tools to diagnose.
Also, how are they going to enforce that? Are the police going to go people's houses and drag out kids?  Are parents going to loose custody of their own children?  This might be a slippery slope. 
Also, I think they should not have such a rigid time line for so many vaccinations.  Some children, especially those born prematurely might need to wait a bit before getting so many shots.  My child's first pediatrician believed this and she had big concerns about that and discussed it with me. I would hate to see a law with a strict compliance schedule. 
Anyway, I understand the problems with these disease breakouts, but I'm still uncomfortable with forcing people to get vaccinations.

 well, then, learn to be comfortable with disease outbreaks.

btw, vaccine schedules come out of the CDC - not big pharma.

Also, how are they going to enforce that? Are the police going to go people's houses and drag out kids?  Are parents going to loose custody of their own children?  

Here's how the SOMa school district enforces it.

Here are the recommendations by the CDC.

When I was a child there was an epidemic of Polio. Children got very very sick. Many died.

Then Dr. Salk and later Dr. Sabin came up with a vaccine. I think the schools mad it mandatory. I remember us all lining up to get vaccinated. Polio disappeared almost 100%

I believe in Freedom, but there are parents who are neglectful, and all of society has to be protected to the extent possible.  

Ah, the gold old days before vaccines. Polio, smallpox, TB, measles. The many TB and polio wards, a pretty large industry in the day.

How quickly the comfortable forget.

STANV said:
When I was a child there was an epidemic of Polio. Children got very very sick. Many died.
Then Dr. Salk and later Dr. Sabin came up with a vaccine. I think the schools mad it mandatory. I remember us all lining up to get vaccinated. Polio disappeared almost 100%
I believe in Freedom, but there are parents who are neglectful, and all of society has to be protected to the extent possible.  

Ironically a parent can be brought up on child abuse for simply hitting children whereas they are allowed to purposefully medically endanger them.

jmitw said:
the science is not clear...there has been a lot of science behind a lot of bad medicine....science manipulated by drug companies and their lobbies.
for example, how do you explain the science behind forcing hep b vaccine on 4-5 year olds who should never be exposed to it?
there is some legitimate concern about the large number of vaccines over a short amount of time...yet science won't acknowledge that

Hep B vaccine is recommended for babies and children to protect them from exposure to the virus from their mothers.  

Hep B is very dangerous.  It can cause liver failure and cancer.  Chronic Hep B is incurable.

Jaytee said:
The thing that gets me is, if you agree with 69 vaccines for your child, why are you so mad at people who refuse to vaccinate? You're protected right? 

Please, please, please educate yourself.  The ignorance level of these questions is frightening.

There just needs to be a hard-nosed assessment of which vaccines should be required.  Polio and smallpox were/are no-brainers.  The ratio of lives saved versus lives put at risk from the vaccine is overwhelmingly in favor of lives saves.  And is the disease in question highly contagious.  Hep B isn't particularly contagious, so maybe we leave that one up to  the parents.

tjohn said:
There just needs to be a hard-nosed assessment of which vaccines should be required.  Polio and smallpox were/are no-brainers.  The ratio of lives saved versus lives put at risk from the vaccine is overwhelmingly in favor of lives saves.  And is the disease in question highly contagious.  Hep B isn't particularly contagious, so maybe we leave that one up to  the parents.

Hep B is particularly contagious.

https://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/hbv/bfaq.htm