I just need to vent: long term friendships and and significant others

26 years ago I dated a guy, R. We had actually known each other for two years prior to that, so we've been friends for 28 years. After a few short months of dating we decided we'd be better friends than a couple. We stay friends. R was also friends with my first husband before I'd even met him, and who was aware that R and I had dated years before and was okay with that. R was even a groomsman in our wedding. When I met the man who would soon become my current husband I introduced them and they also became friends. My current husband also knows R and I dated eons ago and never had an issue with it.

A number of years ago R started dating a woman who had a very cynical outlook on life. I tried to be friendly, would talk to her at parties, though conversations mostly consisted of her standing in the corner giving side glances at people and explaining to me what was wrong with them. One by one she started cutting R's friends out of his life. This one was too baby crazy and she didn't like hearing her talk about her kids all the time. That one was too immature and he wasn't a good influence and would lead R astray. R and his girlfriend started showing up to less and less events, started hanging out with fewer and fewer people. They started spending more and more time home alone together watching television because she didn't like his friends. One day when they were actually out at an event someone mentioned that I used to wear short skirts and I said something along the lines of "of course I did, my legs were hot back then." Boom, I'm cut off like so many other friends. She decided that I was trying to lure R back, forget that we had broken up over a decade before after dating a few short months, forget that I was living with my fiance at that point. I mentioned having hot legs in high school so that was all the excuse she needed to add me to the long list of R's friends who were banned.

About two years later R calls me up to apologize. After eventually cutting him off from ALL of his friends she ended up dumping him. He was going through his contact list and trying to mend bridges that she had burned. A few bitched him out first (I wasn't one of them), a few expressed sympathy, but all of us readily accepted his apology and were happy to have our friend back. I didn't realize how deep her anger at me had been until he told me that when my husband and I married in Vegas she was livid that we "stole" her idea and now she and R couldn't do that (apparently we were the first couple ever to decide to elope to Vegas to get married ) and she even took the wedding announcement we had mailed to them and threw it out. But it's all good, I'm just glad to have my friend back.

Fast forward. I now have kids, it isn't as easy to hang out a lot, but I still make an effort. Every Labor Day and Memorial Day my husband and I have spent with R, plus we get together a few times here and there throughout the year. The last two years we've gone to the country fair at Fosterfields together, we went to a 4H fair together. We've met up at a park near his house once or twice to catch up while the kids play. Not weekly, not as often as we used to hang out before kids, but we see each other on occasion.

Then a few months ago he starts getting busy and disappeared somewhat. It turns out he has met a new woman and is in a relationship. I can understand his being busy, I'm glad he's met someone and is happy. New relationships do tend to take all of someone's time until the newness wears off, I understand. Memorial Day rolls around and I ask him if we're getting together again and how I'm looking forward to meeting this person. He says of course and is looking forward to it too. Everything is cool until a few days later he texts me back to apologize and says that maybe we can all get together another time, this woman is upset that we dated 26 years ago and needs to have some more time to adjust to the thought before meeting me. It was actually more than that, but the actual reason she gave him is a bit vulgar, lets just say it smacked of insecurity. Prior to talking to her R didn't think she would have an issue with me since she is friends with a few of her ex's, and the only reason he told her was that at parties and such there are a lot of people who've known both of us since forever and he didn't want her to find out by accident. She is also upset because of how young I was when R and I dated. Of course I was young, he was too, it was 26 years ago.

It is now July. I've reached out to him a few times. He replies, but always very short, polite replies, and then he has to go. It isn't as pronounced as with the crazy ex, but there is definitely some avoidance. On the one hand we've been friends for 28 years. Maybe it is just new relationship busyness and once things calm down and she is more secure he'll have the time and she'll no longer be intimidated by me and we can actually meet. On the other hand I've already dealt with being cut off once, and my life is busy enough now that trying to reach out again and again in the hopes of a likewise response is tiring. I guess at this point this can end up in one of three ways:

1) They stay together and we end up meeting eventually and I get my friend back (and maybe even make a new friend of her)

2) They stay together but I end up cut off for good and I lose my friend of 28 years permanently

3) They break up and I get my friend back

I guess I should look at the bright side, this means I have a two out of three chance of not losing my friendship with R. I guess that I'm doubly frustrated that this isn't the first time.

This is a tough situation, you've every justification to be frustrated and dismayed by R's choice to seemingly go down the same path in his new relationship. People do strange and incomprehensible things, his willingness to allow himself to be cut off from friends speaks volumes.

As Billy Joel sings in "Say Goodbye to Hollywood" - So many people in and out of my life, some will stay, some will just be now and then. Life is a series of hellos and goodbyes, I'm afraid it's time for goodbye again.

I only had two bridesmaids at my wedding, I married in my 30s and just wanted my two closest friends. Now one of them has been incommunicado for months despite several attempts on my part to reach out. It's sad, a bit bewildering, but also just the way things go sometimes. Move on best you can, cultivate and nurture relationships with those who hit the ball back. It's best you can do in many situations like these.

HudsonBlue said:
...R's choice to seemingly go down the same path in his new relationship. ...his willingness to allow himself to be cut off from friends speaks volumes.

I think this is the heart of the problem. This is not something these women are doing to him. It's something he allows them to do. Something he chooses repeatedly. And it's not something you can fix, however frustrating it might be.

I do sympathize. As HudsonBlue also said, people do incomprehensible things. But I think you're faced with the choice of accepting who he is and letting him come and go as he allows himself, or pushing him out of your life altogether.

He's not going to change. The question is, can you live with the friendship on those terms?

PeggyC said:

HudsonBlue said:
...R's choice to seemingly go down the same path in his new relationship. ...his willingness to allow himself to be cut off from friends speaks volumes.

I think this is the heart of the problem. This is not something these women are doing to him. It's something he allows them to do. Something he chooses repeatedly. And it's not something you can fix, however frustrating it might be.
I do sympathize. As HudsonBlue also said, people do incomprehensible things. But I think you're faced with the choice of accepting who he is and letting him come and go as he allows himself, or pushing him out of your life altogether.
He's not going to change. The question is, can you live with the friendship on those terms?

I agree with both ladies. He's the cause of the problem, not the women he gets involved with. Who even knows exactly what he said to these women, how he described you and your past, fleeting relationship to make them react so negatively toward you. Regardless, you can't force him to be your friend the way you want him to be. I agree to let him go and if he is a true friend, he will eventually come back. And if you are true friends, if I were you, I'd say to him, look, you can't keep coming into and out of my life like this according to the whims of whatever woman you're with at the time. Tell him it hurts your feelings and that you don't want to have a rollercoaster friendship with him. This isn't first grade! Good luck! ><

PeggyC said:

HudsonBlue said:
...R's choice to seemingly go down the same path in his new relationship. ...his willingness to allow himself to be cut off from friends speaks volumes.

I think this is the heart of the problem. This is not something these women are doing to him. It's something he allows them to do. Something he chooses repeatedly. And it's not something you can fix, however frustrating it might be.
I do sympathize. As HudsonBlue also said, people do incomprehensible things. But I think you're faced with the choice of accepting who he is and letting him come and go as he allows himself, or pushing him out of your life altogether.
He's not going to change. The question is, can you live with the friendship on those terms?

^ BINGO ^

Your friend, as lovely as he is, ALLOWS the women in his life to control him and make decisions for him. As I'm reading your post, I'm thinking to myself, "Mr. Kibbegirl WOULD never allow that." It doesn't make Mr. K better than R, it just makes them different types of men who like different types of women.

Personally, his choice of women would unnerve me and I'd have to loosen my friendship rope. Meaning, still continue to be friends with him because it is him that you adore, but not open the door to meet his lady friends or invite them to your home as a couple. If he cannot get together with you and yours because his lady says NO and he abides by this, there isn't anything you can do about it. Remember: these are his choices.

Your friend is attracted to insecure and jealous women. No wonder your romantic relationship did not work.

This is probably a permanent flaw on his part.

Why is he even telling these women about your brief dating period? It seems so insignificant. Is he telling them about it in a way that tries to make them question things? Is he manipulating them into being suspicious in how he is telling them? Honestly, the chances of even finding grown women that would actually think you are some sort of threat given the circumstance you describe is like one in a million. Maybe he likes relationships like this and is saying things in a way that actually makes them think there could still be something between you two... IDK, but some people thrive on making their S.O. jealous. I have no idea, of course, but it seems very odd.

TigerLilly said:
Why is he even telling these women about your brief dating period? It seems so insignificant. Is he telling them about it in a way that tries to make them question things? Is he manipulating them into being suspicious in how he is telling them? Honestly, the chances of even finding grown women that would actually think you are some sort of threat given the circumstance you describe is like one in a million. Maybe he likes relationships like this and is saying things in a way that actually makes them think there could still be something between you two... IDK, but some people thrive on making their S.O. jealous. I have no idea, of course, but it seems very odd.

AGREE but some people operate by the code of complete and utter honesty hoping that others won't make a big deal out of it. He's managed to find women who've made a big deal out of it. There's a name for these women: Insecure.

insecure = controlling in many cases (and sometimes abusive) and is the pattern your friend seems to follow when finding a gf. i had a friend who followed similar - would find a new flame, at the beginning this person was fun, funny, life of the party, but little by little would change, become judgmental, controlling, and start closing friend off from old friends, family, even co-workers (no going out for drinks after work, etc.)

did friend look for these types of people or did these people find friend? i don't know. i do know that even though my friend is aware of the pattern, it continues to this day.

you can't fix it. R is making a choice to let these women dictate the parameters of his friendships. (before she meets you, she needs time "to adjust" to the fact that he dated you for a few months in high school 25+ years ago? what? that's really one of the craziest things i've ever heard, and i've heard a lot)

you can fight for the friendship and you will see/talk to R. occasionally or rarely, but it will always be after multiple efforts on your part, not his. you yourself have said that you don't have the time for this (and having been through it once before, do you have the desire even?) or you can let it go and be there for him if/when the relationship is over.

re: confronting him and saying 'you've done this before, i'm not going to do it again' - well, he's already being told what to do by her; you're going to sound like someone else coming in with a demand (even though it's not, and your feelings are completely legit). also, when he tells gf what you said, it will only justify her need to keep you and he apart - you're the threat she knew you were. it's certainly not going to change anything.

i'd just say to him, call me when you can get together, and let it go. i know it's hard, and it's sad, b/c you've been friends for so long. but you're not going to change this situation - you're going to bang your head against the wall, and for what? i hope i'm not sounding dismissive - i do know how hard it is to let go of a good friend, but sometimes it's the best thing for you.

I can so relate to this on so many levels. I agree with the posters who view it as a problem with your friend's relationship with women. The pattern of new relationships undermining old is a common pattern for controlling partners.

I've had various experiences with this issue, including my own version of R. In my case, R married an unattractive, insecure, older woman whom he adored (still does and it's been 10+ years). I attended the wedding and realized right away that she was the jealous, controlling type, but figured that was the kind of woman R was going to end up with based on his passive personality. Sure enough, I heard from other mutual friends that she was "keeping him on a tight leash" and getting upset when he spent time with female friends.

R and I had been roommates at one time, but never dated. In fact, I once told R that if he was the last man left on earth I would remain celibate. Cruel, but with R you had to be blunt or he would be planning your future together. Anyway, there was no reason for his wife to be worried about me, but that never seems to stop that kind.

So years pass and I don't see R that much and then my husband leaves me and I'm devastated and alone and R says he wants to come visit me to cheer me up. We arrange a meeting at my house and he never mentions that the wife is coming along, but I knew, based on my experience, that she would probably show up too. And sure enough they both came and I make them a nice lunch and even get out some old photo albums and showed R's wife some pictures of R from grad school and even offered to give her one that she loved. I was hoping she would see that I was just a miserable person who needed support and welcomed friendship from them both.

Evidently, that's not the message she was getting. As the visit went on the topic of reading palms came up, and R's wife was supposedly an expert palm reader (they are devote pagans and into various occult rituals). I asked her to read my palm and should have taken the immediate glare as a warning, but she grabbed my hand and started scrutinizing it with twitching lips. I don't remember the whole reading, but the jist of it was I would never have a successful relationship with a man (and did not need one--that was emphasized) and that I would probably die a horrible death from disease, but if that did not kill me I would live out the rest of my life as a destitute invalid. Fortunately, they left before she made any other predictions, but I'm still haunted by her pronouncements to this day.

R called me a few days later and apologized and said that on the way home they had an argument about the visit and the wife admitted that she was jealous and worried that I was after him. I still stay in touch, but only with him and by email and Facebook.

It's been a while since I've posted here. I happen to see this in one of my random visits back.

I've been R. I dated (and eventually married) someone who did not get along with most of my friends, and I distanced myself from them. I even didn't invite one of my best friends to our wedding because my now-ex-wife didn't like her. I've regretted that since the day we sent out our invitations, 16 years ago. It still bothers me because of what it says about me as a person.

It's been very difficult to reconnect with my friends. Aside from the distance (I've moved away from them), I doubted that they trusted me to be a good friend after that. How do you apologize for something like that?

That said, the problem is with your friend, not the women he dates. He made a choice. And he continues to make choices that distance you. I wonder... do you know if it's just you, or other friends as well?

TigerLilly said:
Why is he even telling these women about your brief dating period? It seems so insignificant. Is he telling them about it in a way that tries to make them question things? Is he manipulating them into being suspicious in how he is telling them? Honestly, the chances of even finding grown women that would actually think you are some sort of threat given the circumstance you describe is like one in a million. Maybe he likes relationships like this and is saying things in a way that actually makes them think there could still be something between you two... IDK, but some people thrive on making their S.O. jealous. I have no idea, of course, but it seems very odd.

I agree with TigerLilly completely. You're blaming the women but it sounds like the impression R. is giving them of spontaneous that's making them feel this way.

Spontaneous, are you sure he's gotten over you? Sounds like he may still wish things worked out between the two of you.

To clarify, with the first girlfriend I wasn't the only one banned. R lost almost all of his circle of friends, male and female. His best friend since grade school had said for years that if he ever got married that R would be his best man. Best friend ended up getting married while R was dating the first woman. R and woman were invited, but R was not asked to be the best man. When I asked Best friend about it he said it was because he wasn't even sure if R would show up, let alone be able to perform the duties of best man. Best friend was really upset at having to make that decision, but based on the situation he felt he had no other choice.

In regards to him telling his current girlfriend that we dated, I don't see what the problem is. I told my husband that R and I dated. I figured it was better than him finding out by accident at a gathering. I'm guessing that R probably thought the same thing. My husband is also still friends with someone he dated in high school. When we started dating he told me about her. We only see her one a year, if that, but they always end up talking at length and catching up on things. Had I found this out from a third party while at a gathering where they were sitting in the corner deep in conversation I don't know how I would have felt about it, but him sharing this information freely with me early on showed me he had nothing to hide.

I'm not saying that each and every previous romantic interest should be shared, but if a current friend was at one point a previous romantic partner I just feel there should be some disclosure. This is actually why R thought it wouldn't be an issue, since his current girlfriend is still friendly with a few of her ex's and disclosed that to R.

As far as R wishing things had worked out, I don't get that feeling at all. We're still friends but it isn't as though he calls or texts incessantly.

@nan - that woman is so effin' crazy! WTF? Who predicts something like that (I hope you realize she's BS'ing you, right?) What a mean spirited woman! Ugh! As my grandmother used to say, "Ugly out and uglier in."

kibbegirl said:
@nan - that woman is so effin' crazy! WTF? Who predicts something like that (I hope you realize she's BS'ing you, right?) What a mean spirited woman! Ugh! As my grandmother used to say, "Ugly out and uglier in."

Yeah, kibbegirl! It was quite a while ago and I think it's kind of funny. The strange thing is now she has cancer and is starting chemo. Maybe she was just reading for herself! But, I don't wish her harm, and she and my friend have been very happy together and they have many friends (acquired through her or as a couple I think -- not sure they hang out with any of his )

Allow me to be the outlier...

The women want you gone because they see a spark.This doesn't mean you're doing something wrong and you're going to do anything silly for either of you but it's as obvious as the day is long you still got some hooks in this guy and he has them in you. Just little ones That's not a good or bad thing- that simply is.

To cut through it....

How many male friends have you kept for 28 years?

How many of those do you contact regularly even if you're getting frozen out a bunch of times?

How many have you spent this much time thinking about weird situations with significant others?

How many have you devoted this much emotional energy to, through decades?

And of those how many have you seen naked?

I think we are down to R.

Seriously- read what you wrote like someone else wrote it. What would you think?

Jackson_Fusion said:
Allow me to be the outlier...



The women want you gone because they see a spark.This doesn't mean you're doing something wrong and you're going to do anything silly for either of you but it's as obvious as the day is long you still got some hooks in this guy and he has them in you. Just little ones That's not a good or bad thing- that simply is.


To cut through it....


How many male friends have you kept for 28 years?
How many of those do you contact regularly even if you're getting frozen out a bunch of times?

How many have you spent this much time thinking about weird situations with significant others?


How many have you devoted this much emotional energy to, through decades?
And of those how many have you seen naked?

I think we are down to R.
Seriously- read what you wrote like someone else wrote it. What would you think?

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you did not grow up in Maplewood or South Orange. For those of us who did it is quite normal to have friends of 28 years+. I'm pretty sure I'm about the same age as Spontaneous based on things she said here, which means this must've been one of her first boyfriends and someone you date at that age for only a few months can very well be a friend for the long term without any of implications of a more serious boyfriend who remains in your life for 28 years subsequent to your dating.

When you stay close to the small town or towns that you grew up in,and remain friends with people you've been friends with since elementary school, Junior high school, or high school there's a great possibility that you may have been romantically linked to somebody in your group of friends. It's not the same as growing up in a metropolis and remaining connected to one of your first boyfriends for 28 years. In my group of friends most of whom are from Maplewood or South Orange, I have friends who dated the same boy when they were younger, I have friends who dated each other siblings, and friends who dated each other and have broken up, and everybody is still friends and it's ok because that's what happens in a small town

Jackson, I had a female friend that I met about thirty years ago. Emotional energy? Yeah, and then some. She came from an abusive home and also had health issues. Did she see me naked? Nope, but I was there in the delivery room for the birth of one of her children, pretty damned intimate. She then started dating a physically and mentally abusive man. He would freeze me out regularly, "mis-delivered" mail, etc, and lie about it. When he threatened to kill me, in front of her, I had to leave and told her that she deserved better but that I couldn't be there to support her if it meant risking my life. A year later I finally broke down, but was afraid to call her directly and set off the a55hole she was living with so I called her sister instead to check up on her, and the sister relayed that after a55hole had finally cut her off not only from friends but even from her own family she realized what a monster he was and she stopped making excuses for him and left. The only reason we drifted apart was because she moved away and the few times we got together her life seemed to revolve around alcohol, we no longer had anything in common. Let's get together for drinks and catch up is something I can do on occasion, but when that is the only thing she wants to do I had to finally back away.

This isn't about my still having a thing for R. It is about him being my friend, and a good one at that. Other than the two relationships, the friendship isn't normally emotionally draining. He's up for anything. He doesn't complain that I now do a ton of kid centered things, and is happy to tag along. He drinks with other friends, but I rarely drink and he doesn't make fun of me for being a teetotaler (I'm not really, I just don't drink as often as most people). And it isn't just me. My husband also likes hanging out with him. I can't tell you how many times he's said "Hey, we should invite R" or "Where's R these days, it's been too long since we've heard from him."

Got you- and I don't think for a second your husband has a thing to worry about- that's not the point. I'm suggesting that perhaps these women, controlling and over the top though they may be, might be picking up on a bit of stray voltage between you two. 26, 28, 100 years, a little bit of that voltage goes a long way.

Maybe cut the ladies some slack. You're obviously (unintentionally) intimidating them!

Bella, you'll note the criteria of longevity is but one that I laid out. once we reach a certain age pretty much all our friends are of a vintage. Add the other things I mentioned and you'd have to admit your eyebrows may go up a bit. These womens certainly did.

To @Jackson_Fusion's point, friends do come and go. I didn't grow up in SO/MW but my boys have and I would love if they each held on to a few longterm friendships of the people they grew up with and went to school with. College will determine longer term relationships, but to this day, I have two great bestie's that I grew up with in Boston. One I've known since elementary school and the other I met in HS. My college friendships have wavered and disappeared over the years and honestly, I feel no love lost. It's these two women who really know me and have watched me as I've watched them, grow into an adult.