Dump Biden.

I guess everyone has heard that a judge ruled that New York must hold a Primary.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-york-primary-judge-rules-june-23/

Klinker said:

ETA: (If you really want to burn me, maybe you should try likening me to Dennis Seelbach.  That would be offensive)

The last time I saw an ETA land that hard the wheels had just fallen off the 7:10 from LAX.

Its pretty late and you may have noticed that I have taken a bit of a beating here today.

You’re a big boy or girl.

PVW said:

Klinker said:

PVW said:

 I mean, if a bunch of folks who voted for Biden start saying they made a mistake, you have a point. Absent that, you're just just talking about your personal feelings in a weirdly overly-certain manner.

 There aren't any people who voted for Biden in New Jersey. Not counting Dennis (and I never do count Dennis) I don't think anyone currently posting on MOL has cast a vote for Biden.  

ETA: Maybe Dave if he voted in the overseas primary

By the same token, then, you can hardly be talking about people from NJ when you say that "it is more a simple matter of acknowledging as a party that we have made a terrible mistake." Perhaps we should dismiss this thread for lack of standing?

 Let's move on.

The NJ Presidential Primary has not been cancelled to my knowledge. I could write in my favorite, Elizabeth Warren, but, Mr. K., you believe the nominee should be someone who was not a candidate in the Primaries. Do you have any suggestions as to whom I should write in? 

Or shall we begin a boomlet for someone for the remaining Primaries? Otherwise all the Delegates chosen will have been handpicked by the Biden Campaign and will be the most reluctant, to say the least, to "dump Biden"

So, Mr. Klinker, arguing on MOL is not a strategy. Perhaps you should cease "cursing the darkness" and instead "light a candle". 

DaveSchmidt said:

You’re a big boy or girl.

 BTW in 2020 those are not the only choices.

I was idiomatically limited, but you’re right.

drummerboy said:

anyway klinker, the reason you're being accused of trolling is that this discussion is stuck, and the result is that you simply post the same thing over and over and over again. There's no development of ideas, no real discussion. You've become a johnny one-note - on an issue that is supported by only a tiny fringe of leftists. And based on history - has about a zero chance of ever happening.

There's not much to develop.  I have laid out my argument.  You all have responded (some of you with perhaps more ad hominem attacks than were really necessary).  Only time will tell what happens from here on out.  Either the party will come to its senses or it won't.  If it doesn't, Biden will either lose or he will win (as you know, I have a strong opinion on this). 

We will see.

I just think it is good to bookmark this moment in time when it was still possible to save America.

DaveSchmidt said:

Its pretty late and you may have noticed that I have taken a bit of a beating here today.

You’re a big boy or girl.

 Absolutely.  Its just that I did not intend to snub Red and I was sorry that my ham handed remarks came off that way.  When I mean to be a  ********* I will definitely be  a ********* but sometimes, particularly when I am tired, I can give the impression that I am purposefully being a dick even though that is not my intention.

Morganna said:

Here's how I see it. If there is anything there, I would bet that President Obama will ask privately for Biden to step aside. I would imagine that they have already had a conversation about the credibility of the allegation.

If that occurs the Democratic convention will be responsible for picking a viable candidate. I would imagine it would be impossible to organize an emergency primary, particularly with the complications of COVID 19. "

 That definitely would be the best case scenario and I hope that is indeed what happens.

drummerboy said:

Explain to us what this piece of malarkey is supposed to mean, and what relevance it has to ANY discussion of American politics, which, except for the bizarre nature of the EC, uses a democratic process 99.999999% of the time to reach decisions.  

 

Reread my post.  The first thing that I said was that the Constitution has no relevance to the issue of how political parties select their nominees.  If you need further evidence to support this statement, just look at the way almost every nominee was selected throughout the 19th and 20th centuries right up to the rise of the binding primary in the late 1960s and early 1970s.  Historically speaking, this process has been far more Republican than Democratic.

Klinker said:

I just think it is good to bookmark this moment in time when it was still possible to save America.

 As I said the Primary in this State and a number of others including New York have not been cancelled. If I believed what you believe I would be campaigning. 

Klinker said:

I just think it is good to bookmark this moment in time when it was still possible to save America.

 If you want to play that game, then look to the moment when Bernie had a chance to stop his minions from creating an anti-Hillary spectacle at the Democratic convention.

If you think my comment is ridiculous, consider how yours looks.

nohero said:

 If you want to play that game, then look to the moment when Bernie had a chance to stop his minions from creating an anti-Hillary spectacle at the Democratic convention.

This isn't about the past, it's about the future.  

STANV said:

Klinker said:

I just think it is good to bookmark this moment in time when it was still possible to save America.

 As I said the Primary in this State and a number of others including New York have not been cancelled. If I believed what you believe I would be campaigning. 

 The only way this works is if the Party comes to a consensus.  That means that, by the Convention, the truth needs to be so plain that even the Biden delegates see it.  I believe that will happen but, as I said above, time will tell.

Klinker said:

nohero said:

 If you want to play that game, then look to the moment when Bernie had a chance to stop his minions from creating an anti-Hillary spectacle at the Democratic convention.

This isn't about the past, it's about the future.  

Don't blame me, Nostradamus, I relied on the verb tense in the post that I responded to - 

Klinker said:

I just think it is good to bookmark this moment in time when it was still possible to save America.

Klinker said:

 The only way this works is if the Party comes to a consensus.  That means that, by the Convention, the truth needs to be so plain that even the Biden delegates see it.  I believe that will happen but, as I said above, time will tell.

Your argument is that others have to realize how stupid they are.  You need a little more substance than that to get to "I believe that will happen".

nohero said:

Klinker said:

This isn't about the past, it's about the future.  

Don't blame me, Nostradamus, I relied on the verb tense in the post that I responded to - 

Klinker said:

I just think it is good to bookmark this moment in time when it was still possible to save America. 

In the future, this moment in time will be a was. Carry on.

nohero said:

Your argument is that others have to realize how stupid they are.  You need a little more substance than that to get to "I believe that will happen".

 I believe that as time moves forward, it will become obvious to the Biden delegates that the Emperor has no clothes.  

If you are asking me to predict how Bob Roberts, Biden Delegate from Bessemer Alabama will come to that realization, I can't share that specific information with you at this point.  I am Cassandra, not Nostradamus.

In any case, we could argue about this until Trump's tan fades but I don't think we are going to get anywhere right now.  Lets check back in two months and see how things stand then.

DaveSchmidt said:

In the future, this moment in time will be a was. Carry on.

Klinker said:

drummerboy said:

Explain to us what this piece of malarkey is supposed to mean, and what relevance it has to ANY discussion of American politics, which, except for the bizarre nature of the EC, uses a democratic process 99.999999% of the time to reach decisions.  

 

Reread my post.  The first thing that I said was that the Constitution has no relevance to the issue of how political parties select their nominees.  If you need further evidence to support this statement, just look at the way almost every nominee was selected throughout the 19th and 20th centuries right up to the rise of the binding primary in the late 1960s and early 1970s.  Historically speaking, this process has been far more Republican than Democratic.

No, the first thing you said was "Republic not a democracy", and that's what my post referred to.

Why lie?

I guess I was wrong about this one.  It might be time to change my avatar.

Still don't much care for Biden but, in the end, he certainly was better than the alternative. 

Bush told Clyburn that Biden was the only candidate that could actually beat Trump. I don't know if I would go that far, but I believe(d) that Biden certainly was the one with the best shot. And so did the Trump campaign, they spent way more resources on fabricating dirt on Biden than on all the other contenders combined, and that was even before it was clear Biden would win the Democratic nomination. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/20/us/politics/clyburn-bush.html

What was old becomes new. I figure this will become more and more relevant as we journey closer to the primaries.

I hope he just decides not to run. A primary battle with a sitting president would be a disaster.

Even the mainstream media has turned on him.  He is toast.  

nan said:

Even the mainstream media has turned on him.  He is toast.  

If the MSM doesn't like him, that's a good thing. They lie about everything and idiots who believe the MSM are brainwashed fools. Biden's gonna cruise this, all the podcasts say so.

nan said:

Even the mainstream media has turned on him.  He is toast.  

welcome to the party. the media turned on him a year ago.

ridski said:

nan said:

Even the mainstream media has turned on him.  He is toast.  

If the MSM doesn't like him, that's a good thing. They lie about everything and idiots who believe the MSM are brainwashed fools. Biden's gonna cruise this, all the podcasts say so.

You have it wrong. 

The media narrative is controlled to benefit the ruling class. That may or may not involve lying but it is deeply dishonest. During the election they told people that Bernie Sanders, the only candidate that actually cared about doing something for the regulars was a rich Communist sexist loser who could not get anything done.  They said senile, corrupt Joe Biden was a sharp fighter for justice who knew how to get things done.  

People were fooled and Joe won, but now he has, predictably,  done nothing, not even his minimal campaign promises and his ratings are in the dust bin and he can barely get a sentence out and probably could never make it through the demands of a campaign where you have to stay up past 9:00 PM.  Many people have been asleep at the wheel since Trump left office so they think Joe is doing fine.  They need to be gently informed. 

So the media starts going harder on him and before you know it manufactured consent sets in and people are coming to the "conclusion" that Joe needs to go.  He needed to have never been here, but even the media probably couldn't sell him for the next election once the campaigning started.  Even they have their limits.  

So, he will be replaced with someone less senile but with the same lame neoliberal policies and neocon views and people will come to the "conclusion" that person is what we need.

For those who are cynical as I am, I recommend the Monday version of the Useful Idiots podcast, where Katie Halper and Aaron Mate analyse clips from the Sunday mainstream news shows.  I did not watch the one I'm posting yet, but I'm sure they are not saying that "Biden's gonna cruise this."

nan said:

ridski said:

nan said:

Even the mainstream media has turned on him.  He is toast.  

If the MSM doesn't like him, that's a good thing. They lie about everything and idiots who believe the MSM are brainwashed fools. Biden's gonna cruise this, all the podcasts say so.

You have it wrong. 

The media narrative is controlled to benefit the ruling class. That may or may not involve lying but it is deeply dishonest. During the election they told people that Bernie Sanders, the only candidate that actually cared about doing something for the regulars was a rich Communist sexist loser who could not get anything done.  They said senile, corrupt Joe Biden was a sharp fighter for justice who knew how to get things done.  

People were fooled and Joe won, but now he has, predictably,  done nothing, not even his minimal campaign promises and his ratings are in the dust bin and he can barely get a sentence out and probably could never make it through the demands of a campaign where you have to stay up past 9:00 PM.  Many people have been asleep at the wheel since Trump left office so they think Joe is doing fine.  They need to be gently informed. 

So the media starts going harder on him and before you know it manufactured consent sets in and people are coming to the "conclusion" that Joe needs to go.  He needed to have never been here, but even the media probably couldn't sell him for the next election once the campaigning started.  Even they have their limits.  

So, he will be replaced with someone less senile but with the same lame neoliberal policies and neocon views and people will come to the "conclusion" that person is what we need.

For those who are cynical as I am, I recommend the Monday version of the Useful Idiots podcast, where Katie Halper and Aaron Mate analyse clips from the Sunday mainstream news shows.  I did not watch the one I'm posting yet, but I'm sure they are not saying that "Biden's gonna cruise this."

oh for a sarcasm tag

nan, you know, if not for Sinemanchin, Biden might have pulled off the biggest progressive legislation since I don't know when. maybe FDR.

your view of Washington politics and the power of the president is simplistic