DOJ to claw back funds from Sanctuary Cities - Impact on South Orange/Maplewood
Send your list to Trump in care of the White House. He can probably help you.
Laws are written by ostensible representatives of the people, not by God. Sometimes the representatives get it wrong, and the people disobey, protest, and repeal the laws.
Instead of 2 threads - I'm closing one and moving this to politics. It may have local impact - but it's stemming from the WH at the moment.
A lot of this is just grandstanding as part of the Trump agenda of demonizing immigrants - as if immigrants are making us worse off.
As a practical matter, immigrant populations are found to be more law-abiding on the average than are equivalent native-born populations. As a practical matter, cities do turn over illegal immigrants convicted of violent crimes. And I find convincing the concerns of city police forces that driving all immigrants underground will make their jobs more difficult.
Conflating Immigrants and ILLEGAL immigrants is the tool of the moment. No one said anything about LEGAL immigrants -- just the scare mongers. Legal immigration is wonderful. Why is it wrong to pick who comes into the country?
And Tom you are correct laws can be changed BUT they haven't. While we can protest and get laws changed you dont get to pick which ones to enforce. Frankly that is the problem with Marijuana laws not being enforced at Federal Level BUT NJ not being allowed to have sports betting.
tjohn said:
A lot of this is just grandstanding as part of the Trump agenda of demonizing immigrants - as if immigrants are making us worse off.
As a practical matter, immigrant populations are found to be more law-abiding on the average than are equivalent native-born populations. As a practical matter, cities do turn over illegal immigrants convicted of violent crimes. And I find convincing the concerns of city police forces that driving all immigrants underground will make their jobs more difficult.
SOguy said:
And if we get to pick what laws we follow who do I give my list to?
No idea. I'm too busy reading MOL on my phone while doing 85 on the Turnpike.
Wow the editor changed the title .. not COOL.. it is relevant to EACH of South Orange and Maplewood. We got specific $$ for the projects mentioned.
Jamie.. i just saw this.. The title is relevant b/c its specifc $$ to each town.. somewhere around $150k each for woodlands + baird
jamie said:
Instead of 2 threads - I'm closing one and moving this to politics. It may have local impact - but it's stemming from the WH at the moment.
Realistically, law enforcement always has to "pick which ones to enforce" (and prosecutors have to pick which ones to prosecute).
I have no problem at all with cities or police departments choosing to promote public safety (their actual job) by encouraging people to report crimes and cooperate with investigations, even though that may mean not attending to or asking about immigration status.
Just doesn't make sense to debate the issue in two places - we can talk about how much every town will lose here. or should we start 500 threads questioning the loss in each town?
I do not think that the Woodlands or Baird got any money from the Department of Justice's Office of Justice Programs Sessions was referring to today. So the original threads as structured was inaccurate and absurd.
I did not hear which specific DOJ program he mentioned so I stand corrected. But rest assured they will pressure all FED grant recipients in time
Gilgul said:
I do not think that the Woodlands or Baird got any money from the Department of Justice's Office of Justice Programs Sessions was referring to today. So the original threads as structured was inaccurate and absurd.
********. Trump is demonizing brown people. In effect if not in intent.
SOguy said:
Conflating Immigrants and ILLEGAL immigrants is the tool of the moment. No one said anything about LEGAL immigrants -- just the scare mongers. Legal immigration is wonderful. Why is it wrong to pick who comes into the country?
And Tom you are correct laws can be changed BUT they haven't. While we can protest and get laws changed you dont get to pick which ones to enforce. Frankly that is the problem with Marijuana laws not being enforced at Federal Level BUT NJ not being allowed to have sports betting.
tjohn said:
A lot of this is just grandstanding as part of the Trump agenda of demonizing immigrants - as if immigrants are making us worse off.
As a practical matter, immigrant populations are found to be more law-abiding on the average than are equivalent native-born populations. As a practical matter, cities do turn over illegal immigrants convicted of violent crimes. And I find convincing the concerns of city police forces that driving all immigrants underground will make their jobs more difficult.
why do you assume all immigrants are brown?
tjohn said:
********. Trump is demonizing brown people. In effect if not in intent.
SOguy said:
Conflating Immigrants and ILLEGAL immigrants is the tool of the moment. No one said anything about LEGAL immigrants -- just the scare mongers. Legal immigration is wonderful. Why is it wrong to pick who comes into the country?
And Tom you are correct laws can be changed BUT they haven't. While we can protest and get laws changed you dont get to pick which ones to enforce. Frankly that is the problem with Marijuana laws not being enforced at Federal Level BUT NJ not being allowed to have sports betting.
tjohn said:
A lot of this is just grandstanding as part of the Trump agenda of demonizing immigrants - as if immigrants are making us worse off.
As a practical matter, immigrant populations are found to be more law-abiding on the average than are equivalent native-born populations. As a practical matter, cities do turn over illegal immigrants convicted of violent crimes. And I find convincing the concerns of city police forces that driving all immigrants underground will make their jobs more difficult.
I assume that the ones the Trumpists don't want here are brown. The illegals from places like Ireland are probably a-ok in their eyes.
Ha.. you forget the discrimination the Irish experienced when they came.. any thanks for the discussion.. signing off
ml1 said:
I assume that the ones the Trumpists don't want here are brown. The illegals from places like Ireland are probably a-ok in their eyes.
I don't think that South Orange receives any federal money. South Orange used to receive block grants for the SOPAC debt but I don't see any CDBG grant in the 2016 budget. The only federal money that SO received in 2016 was a FEMA reimbursement.
SOguy said:
Ha.. you forget the discrimination the Irish experienced when they came.. any thanks for the discussion.. signing off
Was Trump president then?
It's been a while since anti-Irish sentiment was really strong. But anti-brown sentiment is alive and well.
SOguy said:
Ha.. you forget the discrimination the Irish experienced when they came.. any thanks for the discussion.. signing off
ml1 said:
I assume that the ones the Trumpists don't want here are brown. The illegals from places like Ireland are probably a-ok in their eyes.
SOguy said:
Ha.. you forget the discrimination the Irish experienced when they came.. any thanks for the discussion.. signing off
ml1 said:
I assume that the ones the Trumpists don't want here are brown. The illegals from places like Ireland are probably a-ok in their eyes.
Jeebus. My ancestors were Irish. I know all about that history,
But just a week and a half ago there was this:
Mr. Kenny did not refer to Mr. Trump’s travel ban on visitors from six predominantly Muslim countries, which is now tied up in court. He stuck to the issue that has long preoccupied Irish officials: the estimated 50,000 Irish who are living in the United States illegally, and who are at risk of being deported if Mr. Trump delivers on his campaign pledge to round up undocumented immigrants.
“We would like this to be sorted,” Mr. Kenny said, calling for these people to be given a path to citizenship. “It would remove a burden of so many that they could now stand in the light and say, ‘Now I’m free to contribute to America as I know I can.’ That’s what people want.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/16/us/politics/irish-st-patricks-enda-kenny-trump.html
If this had been Jimmy Morales, the president of Guatemala would there even be a question that such a request would be immediately rebuffed?
SOguy said:
Conflating Immigrants and ILLEGAL immigrants is the tool of the moment. No one said anything about LEGAL immigrants -- just the scare mongers. Legal immigration is wonderful. Why is it wrong to pick who comes into the country?
And Tom you are correct laws can be changed BUT they haven't. While we can protest and get laws changed you dont get to pick which ones to enforce. Frankly that is the problem with Marijuana laws not being enforced at Federal Level BUT NJ not being allowed to have sports betting.
People bet on sports all the time. Some bet big money. When was the last time we heard of someone being prosecuted for it.
Legal immigrants can be deported for misdemeanors and certain traffic offenses.
The funding has to be related to what the Federal government is trying to compel.
So, with respect to law enforcement working with Federal Immigration officials, the funding would have to be related to law enforcement, as a general proposition. The GOP's victory with respect to limiting the Federal funds which could be used, to make every state expand Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act, is a Supreme Court precedent on this point.
Also as a general matter, perhaps the person starting the thread could provide his understanding of the laws being "picked" to be enforced or not, and his understanding of what South Orange and Maplewood stated they would or would not do. It would be useful for the discussion and the question he asked.
I hope that the self-serving elected officials in SO and MW are prepared to dig into their own pockets if we lose one cent of promised federal assistance because of the rush to declare these communities as "illegal" sanctuary towns. Their decision was ill advised and downright stupid.
SOguy said:
why do you assume all immigrants are brown?
tjohn said:
********. Trump is demonizing brown people. In effect if not in intent.
SOguy said:
Conflating Immigrants and ILLEGAL immigrants is the tool of the moment. No one said anything about LEGAL immigrants -- just the scare mongers. Legal immigration is wonderful. Why is it wrong to pick who comes into the country?
And Tom you are correct laws can be changed BUT they haven't. While we can protest and get laws changed you dont get to pick which ones to enforce. Frankly that is the problem with Marijuana laws not being enforced at Federal Level BUT NJ not being allowed to have sports betting.
tjohn said:
A lot of this is just grandstanding as part of the Trump agenda of demonizing immigrants - as if immigrants are making us worse off.
As a practical matter, immigrant populations are found to be more law-abiding on the average than are equivalent native-born populations. As a practical matter, cities do turn over illegal immigrants convicted of violent crimes. And I find convincing the concerns of city police forces that driving all immigrants underground will make their jobs more difficult.
Because Drumpf does...
cramer said:
I don't think that South Orange receives any federal money. South Orange used to receive block grants for the SOPAC debt but I don't see any CDBG grant in the 2016 budget. The only federal money that SO received in 2016 was a FEMA reimbursement.
South Orange HAS received other Federal grants in recent years, such as the SAFER Grant for hiring of Firefighters or the Grant for the River Greenway or the annual CDBG Grant
http://www.placenj.com/2015/08/officials-announce-grant-for-south.html
http://villagegreennj.com/towns/government/south-orange-maplewood-get-100-grand-plus-cdbg-grants/
Does the watered-down resolution passed by the TC technically qualify Maplewood as a sanctuary city that would be targeted for any de-funding? As I recall it, it sounded pretty weak with several important caveats, like we won't turn anyone over to the government unless the government says we have to.
SOguy said:
And Tom you are correct laws can be changed BUT they haven't. While we can protest and get laws changed you dont get to pick which ones to enforce. Frankly that is the problem with Marijuana laws not being enforced at Federal Level BUT NJ not being allowed to have sports betting.
State and local governments do get to pick when it is optional. There is no obligation or law that forces local government to enforce federal laws. That's a constitutional principle that has been upheld by the courts.
During prohibition, NY state had laws mirroring the Volstead act. When the state realized prohibition did not work the state laws were removed. Local and state police thereon did not enforce the federal prohibition law and refused to cooperate with federal prohibition agents..
The enforcement of federal immigration laws and rules by local government is voluntary. Yet, now we have a federal government threatening sanctions because local governments do not volunteer. So we end with the Republicans in government now trying to create an overpowering get in your face federal government while publicly talking about downsizing government and state and local rights. Again they've shown themselves to be hyprocrites.
There are good reasons for sanctuaries. Since we have have illegals, we want them to cooperate with police. We don't want them to be afraid of reporting crime. I believe the chief in LA said that crime reporting in immigrant neighborhoods has gone down significantly. Wouldn't it be a shame, for you, if someone committed a criminal act on you and a witness is some immigrant who refuses to call the police or to testify?
And if we get to pick what laws we follow who do I give my list to?